2H Frost QNA

[Rhaxus]

It's not a generic or system question.

Arthas has an important identity to the IP even before WoW was a game. Frost DK using DW one handed weapons is about as offensive as Sylvanas switching from a bow to a 2H Paladin Hammer.

I'm sure a lot of Dks don't care, but to some of us ancient players it's abrasive.

It's much lower effort than when Brewmasters were added to the game. Not only did the MOP developers add a staff with a hanging keg which is a completely new type of weapon, they added a new stance and idle to the game to support it and match the original Brewmaster from WC3.

It really seems Arthas & DK should get more love than it has.

my idea of broadening the question has nothing to do with the need of dks (i want 2h frost too), but with the extremely low chance of it getting picked for the QnA if it's just based on frost dk, especially since WW monks can use whichever weapon since the last build.

[Teech]

Ion mentioned an interesting Point. Paladins can transmog their artifact weapon over a 1hander and shield for example.

[Khain]

Frost was primarily a 2H spec for 8 years then then lazy devs removed it as an option (and did the same thing for a number of other specs) in Legion to make their work easier, now lazy devs in BFA can't be bothered to fix it, people are mad (just like the DW Fury warriors, the Gladiator spec warriors, etc).

Wrong, frost was designed with the dual wield in mind, it has been like that since WotLK, they added the option for 2H option in Cata and it was played sub-optimally until Legion.

[Justpassing]

Well no mention of it in the Q&A so I guess it's the Unholy life for me. ¯\(°_o)/¯

[RuneDK]

Wrong, frost was designed with the dual wield in mind, it has been like that since WotLK, they added the option for 2H option in Cata and it was played sub-optimally until Legion.

It was actually better than DW in both tier 11 and MSV. DW was slightly ahead in Firelands before Unholy took over for SoO....not that either spec was really good in Siege though.

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Personally...they should either let you mog a 2H instead of dw...or have a glyph that allows it. I'm tired of this being debated....just copy the arms warrior attack animations and add a blue hue to them and call it a day.

[mizeri]

insert image of beating a dead horse here

raise dead horse

[Nerovar]

It was actually better than DW in both tier 11 and MSV.

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Personally...they should either let you mog a 2H instead of dw...or have a glyph that allows it. I'm tired of this being debated....just copy the arms warrior attack animations and add a blue hue to them and call it a day.

There are attack animations already. It shouldn't even be an issue at this point (as blizzard can seemingly change transmog restrictions at will).

[Utigarde]

Q&A gave a very good potential answer, if they choose to address it for these specs. BfA will have the tech to transmog regardless of the actual weapons, meaning Frost DK, Survival Hunter, and Fury Warrior could get transmog options again.

[RuneDK]

Q&A gave a very good potential answer, if they choose to address it for these specs. BfA will have the tech to transmog regardless of the actual weapons, meaning Frost DK, Survival Hunter, and Fury Warrior could get transmog options again.

Honestly they just need to implement it at launch...I'm tired of hearing it...I'm tired of listening to people complain about it...I don't find it coincidental that the first expansion they cut one of the subspecs out...Frost finally shines for most of the expansion. Yes there were other factors to this as well during NH and during ABT but as a whole, the spec finally did pretty good throughout the expansion as a whole(yes ToS sucked ass for Frost, but I'll take Frost dominance for 2/3 tiers any day).

[Cosmic Janitor]

Honestly they just need to implement it at launch...I'm tired of hearing it...I'm tired of listening to people complain about it...I don't find it coincidental that the first expansion they cut one of the subspecs out...Frost finally shines for most of the expansion. Yes there were other factors to this as well during NH and during ABT but as a whole, the spec finally did pretty good throughout the expansion as a whole(yes ToS sucked ass for Frost, but I'll take Frost dominance for 2/3 tiers any day).

Frost launched in a completely broken state and was only held up because they kept buffing the non-existant scaling, and even then it switched quite a few times between unholy and frost.

[msdos]

If I was a mod, I honestly would start locking Frost 2h threads for trolling.

The people who keeping pushing this are smirking on the other side of their screen, "how much can I pester them until I get what I want??!" *rubs hands together*
It's what children do when they want something. Beg and beg and beg until you give in, one second they're crying, the next smiling.

Just stop.

[Th3Scourge]

Should it really make a difference to gameplay though? I mean all abilities now scale off AP rather than weapon damage so the only difference will be your white swings. I don't see how this is hard to implement and should really be a cosmetic choice. White damage may pull ahead with DW but how about let the player decide how they want to play. 2H Frost has no reason not to be a thing apart from pigeonholing a spec to specific weapons for one expansion due to artifact

[Kendros]

Should it really make a difference to gameplay though? I mean all abilities now scale off AP rather than weapon damage so the only difference will be your white swings. I don't see how this is hard to implement and should really be a cosmetic choice. White damage may pull ahead with DW but how about let the player decide how they want to play. 2H Frost has no reason not to be a thing apart from pigeonholing a spec to specific weapons for one expansion due to artifact

Except that every passive and talent are based on DW. Adding or switching to 2hand would require a complete revamp of at least talents which im sure they arent willing to do specialy for this xpac.

[Th3Scourge]

Except that every passive and talent are based on DW. Adding or switching to 2hand would require a complete revamp of at least talents which im sure they arent willing to do specialy for this xpac.

Not at all. There are 3 talents out of 21 that are related to auto-attacks. Icy Talons, Runic Attenunation and Frozen Pulse. And there wouldn't be any reason to change those to suit 2H because you can simply choose the other talents for 2H and consider those specific talents for DW

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not at all. There are 3 talents out of 21 that are related to auto-attacks. Icy Talons, Runic Attenunation and Frozen Pulse. And there wouldn't be any reason to change those to suit 2H because you can simply choose the other talents for 2H and consider those specific talents for DW

IT just increases attack speed, that benefits 2h as well, its essentially 15% more white damage. RA is now PPM, so it doesn't matter what speed you attack with. FP could easily be scaled to include a modifyer in it's furmula that adjusts for weapon speed, trivial change. Even if they wouldn't change FP, so what, that is one talent that won't even be in many builds.

As I wrote above, the last real hurdle is the rune enchants, which would cost a decent programmer probably a coffee break.

[Kaver]

IT just increases attack speed, that benefits 2h as well, its essentially 15% more white damage. RA is now PPM, so it doesn't matter what speed you attack with. FP could easily be scaled to include a modifyer in it's furmula that adjusts for weapon speed, trivial change. Even if they wouldn't change FP, so what, that is one talent that won't even be in many builds.

As I wrote above, the last real hurdle is the rune enchants, which would cost a decent programmer probably a coffee break.

Cant they just remove the rune enchants already.. they gave us 3 enchants options and haven’t touched it since. It is really a pointless system.

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If I was a mod, I honestly would start locking Frost 2h threads for trolling.

The people who keeping pushing this are smirking on the other side of their screen, "how much can I pester them until I get what I want??!" *rubs hands together*
It's what children do when they want something. Beg and beg and beg until you give in, one second they're crying, the next smiling.

Just stop.

It worked with Classic WoW...

[Th3Scourge]

IT just increases attack speed, that benefits 2h as well, its essentially 15% more white damage. RA is now PPM, so it doesn't matter what speed you attack with. FP could easily be scaled to include a modifyer in it's furmula that adjusts for weapon speed, trivial change. Even if they wouldn't change FP, so what, that is one talent that won't even be in many builds.

As I wrote above, the last real hurdle is the rune enchants, which would cost a decent programmer probably a coffee break.

Ok so even those talents are normalised to work with both 2H/DW, and they could just as easily make 1H and 2H variations of rune enchants (I think that used to be a thing anyway? can't remember). There is absolutely no reason why they can't remove the 'requires one-hand melee weapons' restriction on main damage abilities other than not wanting to backtrack

[Futhark]

If I was a mod, I honestly would start locking Frost 2h threads for trolling.

The people who keeping pushing this are smirking on the other side of their screen, "how much can I pester them until I get what I want??!" *rubs hands together*
It's what children do when they want something. Beg and beg and beg until you give in, one second they're crying, the next smiling.

Just stop.

No.

I'm asking "How can we reason this out until we both get what we want?" Compromise is what adults do, and I think there are ways to achieve this.

[Kendros]

Not at all. There are 3 talents out of 21 that are related to auto-attacks. Icy Talons, Runic Attenunation and Frozen Pulse. And there wouldn't be any reason to change those to suit 2H because you can simply choose the other talents for 2H and consider those specific talents for DW

Yes it is every damage modifier, any proc, and buff (inculding runeforges) are balanced about being DW. Wanna know a talent thats based on having a 1 hand and you havent had a clue? Frostscythe. They would have to make 2 versions of the same spell one for DW and one for 2h. You tell me if this wouldnt be a balancing nightmare.

[Futhark]

Wanna know a talent thats based on having a 1 hand and you havent had a clue? Frostscythe.

Can you explain this? It seems to do flat damage, especially in BFA, but there's a mechanic you're aware of that I am not.