Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Kyphael]

Well they established that force teleportation is a thing now and that kylo/Ben was obsessed with Rey, there's no way in hell that stalker wasn't force teleporting sperm on/in her constantly.

So the next debate on the Galactic Senate floor will be pro-life vs. pro-choice after Rey accuses Kylo-Ren or Force impregnation without consent.

[Axxil]

But his death doesn't feel poignant or earned. It's literally dieing to perform a fanfiction tier revive kiss on his (basically) his step sister. After being thrown down and nearly being beaten by a bunch of literally whos.(Yes I know they're the Knights of Ren. Still a bunch of lineless nobodies)

As Pornhub has shown us, it's ok if you aren't blood related.

[Kokolums]

I've heard about people being afraid to say they like RoS or the SW trilogy because they get attacked. You see groups like the Fandom Menace talk about organizing so that Star Wars fans who disagree can have a safe space to share their views, pro or against, without being attacked, but now those same groups openly attack anyone who enjoys RoS. "you are a Disney shill" "you are everything that's wrong with the sequels", etc.

On the other hand, if fans don't speak up and get upset, the film industry will shovel absolute garbage like Batman & Robin at them. I think I'd MUCH rather have an angry fanbase trying to keep things high quality instead of no-one complaining and movie houses producing absolute thrill-ride level drivel like B&R.

[Axxil]

You are the kind of person who would eat a turd if it was served with ketchup. Sorry but you have zero taste in movies mam.

You condemning people for liking what they like is basically you making meatloaf with infused turds and coating the top with ketchup to be sneaky and make people who don't agree with you eat shit.

Also, mam? You can't assume genders on mmo-c. Didn't you know that?

[qwerty123456]

So the next debate on the Galactic Senate floor will be pro-life vs. pro-choice after Rey accuses Kylo-Ren or Force impregnation without consent.

LOL. Although with how many planets JJ wiped out I think they would probably be pro life.

[Gorsameth]

Can you not read? One of the members of the lore council said they themselves chose to scrap the eu because Chewie died and he is so iconic to the films and the reason they let him die in the books was because he was so hard to write. They already had a fucking script written partially when jj came aboard. I'm asking if you think they had the original script( that is still mostly in the force awakens because remember they didn't scrap it completely including stuff like Luke not showing up till the end because he steals the show) based in the EU because you continue to claim that JJ is the one who scrapped it when every sense of logic says that they scrapped it earlier and JJ was allowed to do as he pleased. If he wanted to add EU stuff he could have. And what exactly did Rian undo that JJ did? JJ may have had ideas for the next films but he wasn't the director nor was he the Kevin Feige of the Star Wars universe and Rian may have not used JJ's ideas but atleast he didn't try to retcon the film like JJ does with alot of the stuff in the last jedi. If the original script had Chewie in it even before JJ came aboard how on earth could the EU still have been cannon???????

I'm not saying they didn't let the directors decide the new lore, I'm saying they decided they would turn the EU into legends before JJ and then he got to decide the story. If he wanted to add EU shit they didn't care if he wanted to have none of it that was fine with them as well.

How can you say Rian didn't retcon TFA when we have things like "Rey's parents are important, oops they don't matter", Snoke and 99% of the Rebellion being casually killed off. He made the 2nd movie in a trilogy and left nothing but scorched earth.

[TirielWoW]

Same here. Watched it the 2nd time today. Everyone in my family (and extended family) really likes it, except my brother-in-law, who ironically is the only one who hasn't seen it yet. He's watched a bunch of YouTube reviews (most from before the movie was released) and decided/agreed with the YouTube reviewers (who also hadn't seen it) that it was trash.

I don't think it's a coincidence that everyone who thinks it's trash thought that before going to watch it.

That's part of why I didn't watch any reviews or, more accurately, "speculatory videos" prior to going to see it. And I'm glad I didn't.

[Kyphael]

LOL. Although with how many planets JJ wiped out I think they would probably be pro life.

The pro-choice Senators may look to the Kaminoans for re-population.

[Darththeo]

One issue I had with the Sequels, is they seemed to want to one up the OT.

TFA has a bigger and badder Death Star like planet that can destroy Planets in another system vs a space station that has to travel planet to planet.
TLJ had the Resistance lose so badly they can all fit on one ship vs being Force to hide and regroup.
RoS has an even better Super Weapon than the first one that is larger and more powerful and the Emperor's back and Luke was the Son of Vader ... well Rey is the granddaughter of Palpatine!

I don't think anyone realized that you didn't need bigger threats and twists to be good movies. Rogue One didn't have bigger threats than the OT, and it is arguably the most like Disney Star Wars movie. And Solo, despite all its flaws, is still a good movie and its biggest threat is being killed by a gangster.

As much as I would love Rey to have been Luke's daughter ... her being a no one was better. Her being a Palpatine just seems out of nowhere.

[Prokne]

One issue I had with the Sequels, is they seemed to want to one up the OT.

TFA has a bigger and badder Death Star like planet that can destroy Planets in another system vs a space station that has to travel planet to planet.
TLJ had the Resistance lose so badly they can all fit on one ship vs being Force to hide and regroup.
RoS has an even better Super Weapon than the first one that is larger and more powerful and the Emperor's back and Luke was the Son of Vader ... well Rey is the granddaughter of Palpatine!

I don't think anyone realized that you didn't need bigger threats and twists to be good movies. Rogue One didn't have bigger threats than the OT, and it is arguably the most like Disney Star Wars movie. And Solo, despite all its flaws, is still a good movie and its biggest threat is being killed by a gangster.

As much as I would love Rey to have been Luke's daughter ... her being a no one was better. Her being a Palpatine just seems out of nowhere.

The sequel trilogy probably would have been better if it was a totally new plot. Like you said, they tried to redo the OT, but bigger and I think worse. They didn't really need to bring back the original characters at all if they didn't have to. Maybe have them do cameos like Luke as leader of a Jedi academy and Han and Leia doing something important. Having an empire clone come back and take over from a New Republic we never saw without any explanation as to how that happened was a bad idea.

They should have let the OT stand on its own and come up with new problems that come up after the Empire is destroyed instead of destroying the legacy of what George Lucas made.

Also they need to stop making up new crap that the force can do. It basically is magic now and can do whatever you want.

[Darththeo]

The sequel trilogy probably would have been better if it was a totally new plot. Like you said, they tried to redo the OT, but bigger and I think worse. They didn't really need to bring back the original characters at all if they didn't have to. Maybe have them do cameos like Luke as leader of a Jedi academy and Han and Leia doing something important. Having an empire clone come back and take over from a New Republic we never saw without any explanation as to how that happened was a bad idea.

They should have let the OT stand on its own and come up with new problems that come up after the Empire is destroyed instead of destroying the legacy of what George Lucas made.

Also they need to stop making up new crap that the force can do. It basically is magic now and can do whatever you want.

Even let's say the End is the Return of Palpatine, you could have done a far more interesting story then they did. The plot makes no sense. The feeling I got in TFA is that the First Order was viewed as a small group of Imperial loyalists ... then at the start of TLJ, they are suddenly in control of the galaxy which makes no sense. And RoS, look it was Palpatine pulling the strings the whole time.

I never understood why the fleet was even needed, the First Order is basically shown to be controlling the galaxy already. A smaller First Order, a new plot line about the threat and you could still end up with a Hidden Imperial fleet at the end with proper build up.

[qwerty123456]

How can you say Rian didn't retcon TFA when we have things like "Rey's parents are important, oops they don't matter", Snoke and 99% of the Rebellion being casually killed off. He made the 2nd movie in a trilogy and left nothing but scorched earth.

Kylo telling Tey her parents were nobodies isn't a retcon especially when you don't know if he is telling the truth or not. They never introduced who her parents were in the force awakens. JJ already killed off 99% of the reistance in the Force awakens as well as killing off the entire galactic government Rian killing off a couple hundred people is like a piece of burnt toast compared to JJ's scorched earth. The last film could have easily been the last of the resistance and Rey vs Kylo with no redemption story.

Relying on someone whose whole business model relies on outrage media isn't a source I could ever take at face value. Is there plot holes and problems sure, but there are problems and plot holes in all of them.

Look at his other reviews. He thinks the Mandalorian and the Witcher are amazing. And besides you seriously going to sit there and say you shouldn't listen to someones points when they watched the film and got the fucking books from Disney??? Yes lots of things have plot holes he even gave a couple in the Mandalorian which is what double the length of TROS and has 38 or so less plotholes?

[Ragedaug]

Can you not read? One of the members of the lore council said they themselves chose to scrap the eu because Chewie died and he is so iconic to the films and the reason they let him die in the books was because he was so hard to write. They already had a fucking script written partially when jj came aboard. I'm asking if you think they had the original script( that is still mostly in the force awakens because remember they didn't scrap it completely including stuff like Luke not showing up till the end because he steals the show) based in the EU because you continue to claim that JJ is the one who scrapped it when every sense of logic says that they scrapped it earlier and JJ was allowed to do as he pleased. If he wanted to add EU stuff he could have. And what exactly did Rian undo that JJ did? JJ may have had ideas for the next films but he wasn't the director nor was he the Kevin Feige of the Star Wars universe and Rian may have not used JJ's ideas but atleast he didn't try to retcon the film like JJ does with alot of the stuff in the last jedi. If the original script had Chewie in it even before JJ came aboard how on earth could the EU still have been cannon???????

I'm not saying they didn't let the directors decide the new lore, I'm saying they decided they would turn the EU into legends before JJ and then he got to decide the story. If he wanted to add EU shit they didn't care if he wanted to have none of it that was fine with them as well.

I can read, so you can rest that fear. One of the members of the lore council said themselves, AFTER JJ finished the script and contradicted the EU, that they were scrapping the EU...for all those reasons. I'm sure the reasons they listed were among the complaints JJ brought to them; "I can't use the EU because Chewie is dead, and I want Luke to not be married with his own kids, and I don't want the Solos to have 3 kids, I want them to have 1, and that one should be a son, not a daughter, because in the EU both Solo sons are dead. etc. etc."

They started with the treatment from Lucas, but tossed the treatment aside where they didn't like it. Rumors I've heard is that Lucas' treatment included Rey and hermit, Old Ben style Luke. Later, when Arndt was removed from the writing team, JJ and Lawrence Kasdan started from the ground up while keeping key points that they liked from the story they worked on with Arndt.

As far as I'm aware, the Lore Group had little to nothing to do with writing the script. And as they are uncredited, that makes sense.

As far as "did they add EU stuff", everything that happened in the EU that didn't happen in the original 6 movies is "EU Stuff", and you can see "EU Stuff" in all three sequel movies. Like Han and Leia getting married and having children; the First Order mirroring the Imperial Remnant; Luke's Jedi Academy, etc. etc. So they obviously added EU stuff, but they also directly contradicted other EU stuff, that's why 3 months AFTER the script was finished, the Lore Group announced they were decanonizing the EU.



Then you asked, "And what exactly did Rian undo that JJ did?", which makes me think you are just trolling me, so that lets me know there's no need to bother responding to you again.

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The Palpatine thing is known to have been added in by Abrams, the original writer of Episode 9 has stated Palpatine wasn’t in his script. Perhaps Rey was always meant to be a Palpatine but Palpatine himself was not meant to come back.

I suspect he was added after JJ couldn't use Snoke, so he had to tailor the story around that. So he was "rushed" in that he wasn't in the planning 6 years ago, but I would suspect Palps was in JJ's new plan once JJ decided to sit down and figure out how to make 9 work. I would also point to "not rushed" as a theory as many fans found it plausible after TFA, and Palpatine's return was already included in the EU some 27 years ago. So it's not a brand new concept.

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I see a Jannah and Lando story more as it's obvious she is his daughter.

I definitely want to see the Jannah/Lando thing expanded, but with the connection to Finn, I would like to see that developed too.

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On the other hand, if fans don't speak up and get upset, the film industry will shovel absolute garbage like Batman & Robin at them. I think I'd MUCH rather have an angry fanbase trying to keep things high quality instead of no-one complaining and movie houses producing absolute thrill-ride level drivel like B&R.

You don't have to flame. As a matter of fact, the movie industry doesn't care if you flame or not. If you don't like the movie, be upset with the movie company. Don't buy a ticket to their movie. That will get their attention. Starting an internet war with people who liked the movie only serves to destroy the Star Wars fan base, and I'm not sure why you would want to do that...unless your initials are R.J.

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That's part of why I didn't watch any reviews or, more accurately, "speculatory videos" prior to going to see it. And I'm glad I didn't.

I'm with you there. After hearing several folks I know talk about all the negative things they heard, I stay away from all the Star Wars channels I normally listen to. That said, I did watch a review from someone I trusted to not spoil the movie while being at least slightly positive while being able to point out there were controversial elements. (Emergency Awesome).

[qwerty123456]

Then you asked, "And what exactly did Rian undo that JJ did?", which makes me think you are just trolling me, so that lets me know there's no need to bother responding to you again.

When the first script had chewie how is that JJ undoing it when JJ wasn't even attached to it yet?????

Because there is nothing he did that contradicts the previous films unlike TROS. JJ wiped out most of the resistance and all of the galactic government, JJ never said who Rey's parents are nor did he hint at who they were and besides that there is no reason Kylo couldn't have lied about them being nobodies. JJ was the one who said Luke tried to kill Kylo and ruined his character Rian just continued that path. So seriously tell me what Rian undid?

I unsubbed to him years ago because he promotes the toxic culture that is found in almost every fandom. I don't have time for it. I have better things to do then be yelled at by people I don't know for the things I enjoy. I never cared what people thought growing up, and I certainly don't care as an adult.

A lot of those "plot holes" aren't there at all if you look at the visual dictionary. As well as watch episodes the Animated series Rebels and I imagine some are in the other animated series Resistance, and then there is the book Resistance Reborn which sets up Rise of Skywalker. I won't bother going over each of them, because it's a fruitless effort that won't appease anyone. Now you can make the case that a films shouldn't rely on media outside their sequel trilogy, but they are all based on the previous 6 films and other books. So I'm fine with it.

He doesn't promote a toxic culture. Where in his witcher review or mandalorian review or TROS review (i havent seen any others) is he promoting a toxic culture???
The visual novels show that TROS contradicts the previous sequel films and other stuff.

[Prokne]

Yeah, that's what the force always was, nothing but the best plot armor. The force being used in new ways or having a new ability audience haven't seen is kind of a hallmark of what people come to expect from these films. As for destroying the legacy is laughable. That's like saying The Hobbit movies destroyed the J. R. R. Tolkien legacy. It's absurd. Lucas will be known for giving us a modern epic right alongside others. Nothing can take that away from him.

I was talking more about the story - redemption of Darth Vader and good defeating evil, and not that George Lucas's movies were good. Having a new empire come in so soon and the emperor alive ruins the story of the movies Lucas made. Of course a lot of use will just try to ignore these new movies even exist.

And the force was about heightened senses and a sort of telekinesis, but now you can project yourself across the galaxy, teleport objects and heal whatever. In RotS healing and creating life were a big mystery that maybe one sith lord was able to do, but now it's like "oh yeah I figured this out from my non-existent training in the force." Maybe that ability was supposed to be in the books, but it wasn't explained in the movie and if it was, why was it such an accomplishment in the prequels?

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Disney giving Kylo a redemption arc would have been far too controversial, that’s why they went for the easy redemption = death trope.

In this way the whole dead Jedi disappears thing was ideal for Disney. Ben was a problem character and they wanted you to forget him during the celebration scene.

As someone who thought the story would be better and more interesting if Ben lived, I wish they had have let him live. First, it is annoying that two characters died from being tired in these movies. It's the worst reason to have a hero die. Second, Luke would have brought Vader back with him if Vader wasn't mortally wounded by the emperor. Compare what Darth Vader did and what Kylo did and who do you think would be easier to accept for the people they fought against? Vader did so many worse things.

I'm not sure if Ben died because Vader did and they were copying the OT like they did with a bunch of other stuff, or if they don't think that someone with a negative past can be reintegrated into society. Either way it kind of sucks.

[qwerty123456]

As I said I stopped watching his reviews a long time ago so I can't comment on the video itself. If you don't think he promotes toxic culture then we are going to have to disagree, but from another person on Reddit also shares my concerns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/...his_hot_takes/

So you have no proof and just want to sling mud on a person. And considering he loves the Armorer Mandalorian in the mandalorian and Yennefer in the witcher who are both females I don't see how you can view him as toxic. He said in is witcher review he complained about Yennefer before because of the casting and wanting her to look like in the games and books but that isn't about toxicity. Would you be ok with Dwayne Johnson with large fake ears being Yoda in the next Starwars? Of course not.

[Fixxit the Gnome]

As I said I stopped watching his reviews a long time ago so I can't comment on the video itself. If you don't think he promotes toxic culture then we are going to have to disagree, but from another person on Reddit also shares my concerns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/...his_hot_takes/

Wait... is that a gaming sub-reddit that's not a total dumpster fire?

On AngryJoe, I agree that he perpetuates the worst of toxic gaming culture. I casually watch his videos once in a while as I used to really enjoy his reviews and I like to hear other people's perspectives, but I can't really stand the quasi-empiricism that flies as "good critique" on Youtube any more. Especially after the barrage of videos and articles with surface level critiques and complaints about non-existent plot holes around the release of The Last Jedi. A lot of them are just thinly veiled excuses to rant endlessly about any cultural artifacts with any modicum of perceived progressiveness. I do believe AngryJoe isn't a bad person, he just parrots the toxic (and unfortunately mainstream) beliefs in gaming culture.

Regarding Star Wars, I just wish people would realize what a great movie TLJ really is.

[sweatshopkids]

So...

What if the movie doesn't suck?

You're making too much sense here.

[ohiostate124]

Wait... is that a gaming sub-reddit that's not a total dumpster fire?

On AngryJoe, I agree that he perpetuates the worst of toxic gaming culture. I casually watch his videos once in a while as I used to really enjoy his reviews and I like to hear other people's perspectives, but I can't really stand the quasi-empiricism that flies as "good critique" on Youtube any more. Especially after the barrage of videos and articles with surface level critiques and complaints about non-existent plot holes around the release of The Last Jedi. A lot of them are just thinly veiled excuses to rant endlessly about any cultural artifacts with any modicum of perceived progressiveness. I do believe AngryJoe isn't a bad person, he just parrots the toxic (and unfortunately mainstream) beliefs in gaming culture.

Regarding Star Wars, I just wish people would realize what a great movie TLJ really is.

I think the sticky there rules that out

Edit: and pretty much everything else posted there

[Leadsop]

You're making too much sense here.

Go see it. It's fantastic.

Fuck the haters.