BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I was and still am ok with removing the daily cap, I rather go at the pace that I want then be hampered by Blizzard. The rep gating was a legit gripe though.

[FlubberPuddy]

Let's not act like this is an issue with the modern wow community. It was exactly the case almost a decade ago, and would've probably been the case if it got added earlier.

And the "let me go places NAO!!"-mentality was every bit as prevalent 10 years back as it is today. Players shaped the game, otherwise we'd still have Classic mechanics throughout. Imagine the dev time that could be saved if bosses were only ever 3 ability fights, classes hadn't changed in any shape or form and we were still happy to have leveling where you had to supplement XP by grinding mobs.

Poor choice of words on my part, but that wasn't even the main point about my underwater zone comment. What I mean is, these days much more people want to get into the action right away (to an almost lobby-like gameplay system) compared to before so a zone that makes it even slower to traverse would from the get-go seem unappealing.

Overall, everywhere in gaming, the industry and audience have been moving toward a get-in/get-out mentality with regards to design and gameplay. Not to say it didn't exist back then but just look at the game design of most online games back then compared to now, a majority back then had more "downtime" (typically travel time) between action than they do now. That's all I meant. It's a totally different discussion that encompasses the gaming audience, industry, and design as a whole.

Which would be a long topic on its own and not what I want to get into.

Why would being underwater have to mean being slower...? Vash'jir was amazing at the time when you couldn't afford 280% flying for alts way back when, because it not only offered you much faster travel speeds (seahorse), but also allowed you to move faster when NOT mounted.

Look at GW2, they do underwater gameplay in a magnificent way.

Well typically a LOT of games make playing in water/underwater slower. When Blizzard released Vash'jir your actual character still moved slower underwater (or maybe Vash'jir was so big your character moved slower comparatively, even if they had literal faster move speed). Also I played during the release of Cata up to Firelands release, I remember Vash'jir being the most disliked zone compared to the others because of the underwater aspect. At least I remember there was consensus regarding a lot of people not liking Vash'jir.

But yeah they don't have to make someone slower, it's just even Blizzard decided that "your character is 'slower' by themselves" and added things like the seahorse/buff to run faster on ground in Vash'jir. It just typically seems to be how most game designers consider "underwater movement speed" should be. And judging by how Blizzard handled it before, they might handle it a similar way again which could lead to the same consensus. Now if they go about it differently then all bets are off ofc.

I haven't checked out GW2 for a long time (played that at launch for a couple years, stopped around before Living Season 1 began). I'll check it out and see how they do underwater gameplay.

EDIT: For GW2 underwater gameplay for some reason I was thinking there was some new update that came out which changed the release underwater gameplay, was there?

When I watch this video a bit before its release, this is the underwater gameplay I'm familiar with:



When I see a "underwater update" video shown last year, it looks like the player moves much more faster underwater now than before:



Also, looking at the recent video, damn GW2 is a beautiful game and I miss it.

[huth]

Well typically a LOT of games make playing in water/underwater slower. When Blizzard released Vash'jir your actual character still moved slower underwater (or maybe Vash'jir was so big your character moved slower comparatively, even if they had literal faster move speed).

Only for the first few quests, after that you're faster than anywhere else. Vashj'ir just also happens to be one of the largest zones in the game.

[FlubberPuddy]

Only for the first few quests, after that you're faster than anywhere else. Vashj'ir just also happens to be one of the largest zones in the game.

That's what I meant with my parentheses. The zone is so large that even though technically you move faster, you still are "moving slower" , as in time it takes to reach your destinations which is ultimately what matters.

If they released a 1000% mount but it still took you 10 minutes to get to a certain quest hub in a zone vs a 310% speed mount taking you 10 minutes to get to a quest hub in another zone then the actual speed of your character moving faster ultimately doesn't matter, but the travel time.

[KayRule]

The real problems with Vash'jir came from basic engine problems and jank that plagued all of Cataclysm, it was just annoying in Vash'jir cus everything was in a 3D space. Had they tackled an underwater zone as early as WoD it would have been much better received. People tend to forget Cataclysm was when WoW was at it's most "held together with paperclips and duct tape" state.

For as much as you see people whine about not having flying available day 1 of an expansion, and blame the devs for not creating zones "designed around flying", that was basically Vashjir. Mechanically you were just flying the entire zone.

[plz delete account]

Speculation:
the final boss of BFA will be the Claymore Roomba

[AngerFork]

Blizzard can't seem to find a middle ground.

The pendulum always swings too far either way.

True enough...that's been Blizz's big Achilles heel throughout WoW. I somewhat wonder if that's why classes are as they are currently...Blizz wanted to fix homogenization and went too far the other way, overpruning abilities until several specs/classes felt somewhat lifeless.

[huth]

That's what I meant with my parentheses. The zone is so large that even though technically you move faster, you still are "moving slower" , as in time it takes to reach your destinations which is ultimately what matters.

If they released a 1000% mount but it still took you 10 minutes to get to a certain quest hub in a zone vs a 310% speed mount taking you 10 minutes to get to a quest hub in another zone then the actual speed of your character moving faster ultimately doesn't matter, but the travel time.

Not quite. It's not like it they just stretched all the distances out, which is a requirement for what you're describing.

[FlubberPuddy]

Not quite. It's not like it they just stretched all the distances out, which is a requirement for what you're describing.

The main point is, Vashj'r wasn't well liked back then and a lot of those not liking it based it on moving around the zone (typically because it felt slower however that conclusion was reached).

A quick google search for "vash'jir sucks" lists several links on people talking about it being bad or "why did people not like vash'jir" and in this thread from MMO-C among that list, many are commenting about the "getting around" "time in zone compared to others" with their posts on why people didn't like it, despite the poll itself having more people "love it".

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...like-that-zone

[MrExcelion]

The real problems with Vash'jir came from basic engine problems and jank that plagued all of Cataclysm, it was just annoying in Vash'jir cus everything was in a 3D space. Had they tackled an underwater zone as early as WoD it would have been much better received. People tend to forget Cataclysm was when WoW was at it's most "held together with paperclips and duct tape" state.

For as much as you see people whine about not having flying available day 1 of an expansion, and blame the devs for not creating zones "designed around flying", that was basically Vashjir. Mechanically you were just flying the entire zone.

WoD Zangramarsh, if implemented, could have been a good partially underwater/swamp zone

[DeicideUH]

The real problems with Vash'jir came from basic engine problems and jank that plagued all of Cataclysm, it was just annoying in Vash'jir cus everything was in a 3D space. Had they tackled an underwater zone as early as WoD it would have been much better received. People tend to forget Cataclysm was when WoW was at it's most "held together with paperclips and duct tape" state.

For as much as you see people whine about not having flying available day 1 of an expansion, and blame the devs for not creating zones "designed around flying", that was basically Vashjir. Mechanically you were just flying the entire zone.

Vashj'ir is also very very large. Questing there felt like forever, so people who didn't like it ended up hating it.
At the time I felt they could have done the island portion of it bigger and have a good part of the story happen in land (or boats). Maybe there could also be an underwater (but dry) cave system with action happening inside of it. Staying underwater all the time was not for everyone.

Suramar had a whole questing area with Vashj'ir-like mechanics, but I didn't see anyone complaining because it wouldn't spend so much time there.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

So has Blizz put 8.2.5 PTR on the backburner for Classic launch or is it like... actually pretty much set already?

[huth]

So has Blizz put 8.2.5 PTR on the backburner for Classic launch or is it like... actually pretty much set already?

Didn't they announce a test play of anniversary AV for the weekend?

[Hitei]

So has Blizz put 8.2.5 PTR on the backburner for Classic launch or is it like... actually pretty much set already?

Hard to tell since we have no idea what is encrypted. It's possible they wanted to have Classic out of the way before dealing with the testing so server teams could focus on the PTR. It's also possible that they just wanted that specific time frame.

i.e. if 8.2.5 has significant story implications for N'zoth/Azshara, or the Sylvanas line, then they might have wanted a fair bit of time for people to do current stuff and focus on that before datamining pushed some entirely new crazy thing happening, in which case they probably uploaded the 8.2.5 PTR early just to let people know it was there and stuff, but never had any intention of actually doing testing immediately.

[FlubberPuddy]

So has Blizz put 8.2.5 PTR on the backburner for Classic launch or is it like... actually pretty much set already?

In a way yeah if you noticed they've been hyping up Classic Launch the past few days. Probably though they're still doing some internal testing regardless, and that whole AV with Blues was just for one day.

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Also Lmao at the new realm names in order to get others to move off the currently crazy populated realms, Blizzard are hopefully thinking the "meme" names will have their desired effect.

[rda]

Now you made me do stuff. Are you proud of yourself?

<video>

Thankfully it's pretty early, around 2'30''

"we had triple check our numbers, because it's the highest they've been in recent memory, several years for sure"

Now I'm expecting lot of words when you try to convince yourse.. I mean me that he was comparing numbers to mid WoD. Or just simply tell he's lying he's just evil Blizz corpo man. ;D

Thanks for the video.

The phrase you are referring to relates to the number of concurrent players, not to subs.

You previously said that the dev was talking about subs -- "2) I'm too lazy to search for specific quote, but on PAX (where they revealed 7.1 content and mission table app) one dev said that sub numbers are on par with best years. But as I said, my memory is cloudy about this." -- This was not the case.

This was the beginning of a new expansion, so seeing a high number of people logging in to see what's new was expected. After Cata they started having big peaks of activity at the beginning of each new expansion that then quickly deteriorate.

[Vasoka]

So has Blizz put 8.2.5 PTR on the backburner for Classic launch or is it like... actually pretty much set already?

I'm honestly pretty sick of being hammered in the head with Classic bullshit which I have 0 interest in. They literally forgot their retail playerbase, we've had no relevant news since 8.2 launched. That's exactly why I've unsubbed and won't be coming back until retail moves forward and the Classic nonsense dies out.

[rda]

The main point is, Vashj'r wasn't well liked back then and a lot of those not liking it based it on moving around the zone (typically because it felt slower however that conclusion was reached).

A quick google search for "vash'jir sucks" lists several links on people talking about it being bad or "why did people not like vash'jir" and in this thread from MMO-C among that list, many are commenting about the "getting around" "time in zone compared to others" with their posts on why people didn't like it, despite the poll itself having more people "love it".

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...like-that-zone

Yep.

I have to say, while I absolutely agree and appreciate that moving around in Vashjir is actually notably faster than moving around in other zones, I think the zone is a failed experiment. Moving in 3d in Vashjir feels different from flying because the water tries to feel thick, and this is unpleasant. Being underwater is fine only if it is visibly temporarily. Like, when you are diving for a treasure. Being underwater for a whole zone only works if the water is not actually there. Nazjatar works, because that's just a normal zone with normal air and all we have is a pretense of it being underwater. Vashjir doesn't work because it doesn't pretend.

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I'm honestly pretty sick of being hammered in the head with Classic bullshit which I have 0 interest in. They literally forgot their retail playerbase, we've had no relevant news since 8.2 launched. That's exactly why I've unsubbed and won't be coming back until retail moves forward and the Classic nonsense dies out.

Let people have their fun. Fun is rare these days.

I am also not going to play Classic, but I like all the movement around it, all those big plans (including from the dev team), crowds of people looking for a new adventure (however short it might be - or maybe it's going to be long, why not), the world first race (a little LOL, but again, why not, it's interesting), etc. Classic doesn't harm the current game, it adds to it.

[matrix123mko]

Nazjatar has always been speculated as one zone at most, and honestly IMO what we got was more than I expected since the zone is big for a patch zone, tho it would've been nice if they also added an underwater part.

No. Before BfA it was always speculated that it would be entire continent. Also, Nazjatar is huge zone with little to no story.

[Vasoka]

Yep.

I have to say, while I absolutely agree and appreciate that moving around in Vashjir is actually notably faster than moving around in other zones, I think the zone is a failed experiment. Moving in 3d in Vashjir feels different from flying because the water tries to feel thick, and this is unpleasant. Being underwater is fine only if it is visibly temporarily. Like, when you are diving for a treasure. Being underwater for a whole zone only works if the water is not actually there. Nazjatar works, because that's just a normal zone with normal air and all we have is a pretense of it being underwater. Vashjir doesn't work because it doesn't pretend.

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Let people have their fun. Fun is rare these days.

I am also not going to play Classic, but I like all the movement around it, all those big plans (including from the dev team), crowds of people looking for a new adventure (however short it might be - or maybe it's going to be long, why not), the world first race (a little LOL, but again, why not, it's interesting), etc. Classic doesn't harm the current game, it adds to it.

It does harm it. Those are resources which are basically wasted, but could have been used to dish out 8.3 faster or invested in a good 9.0.