BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well that's what happens when you headcanon what's considered "the 4th War". Which is probably best left for Blizzard to decide.

That they're calling the title "Veteran of the 4th War" just means the 4th War will end, but it's probably better to ask clarification from Blizzard on when the 4th War actually started.

They could for instance be considering it as just the beginning of BFA.

That is probably what they will do, its simple and not too complicated.

[Mahmeya]

He's not a villain. He is actually a bitter edgemaster and, if you've bothered with the character's story or know anything at all about the undead, you'd know to be completely normal.

Of course he's a "carboard" licker, 99% of Forsaken are, they worship Sylvanas, -HELLO-? dO wE eVeN LoRe PaSt OuR FoRsAkEN haTe? And he's her champion. Actually, it's beautiful to have a character who doesn't change his mind about what he wants to do and who he wants to be friends with every 5 min. *COUGH* Sadfang. *COUGH* Jaina.

Sylvanas is a villain (and if they try some horrible attempt at redemption, I am outta there, because she long went past the point of no return for me) and so is anyone who willingly and intentionally furthers her plan. Furthermore, I very much doubt Nathanos has some special skills that'd allow him to survive such a behavior to others without massive plot armor, which makes him way more annoying.

As for the others - all of those inconsistencies are done only because Blizzard chose to push their silly faction war agenda so all the other major character are bent to suit that awful story, completely disregarding their personality or their past *COUGH* Baine acted too soon *COUGH* when everyone right in their mind and memory had to see already what's going to happen and rebel post-Burning and give Sylvanas' head to Tyrande on a pike (which would thus prevent this awfully fabricated faction war plot from happening at all).

[Syegfryed]

Blizzard calling this shit clusterfuck as 4th war is making me laugh and get me pissed at the same.

This actually proof that they indeed erased MOP from their minds, cause the war from wtlk-mop was supposed to be the 4th war, they rehashed mop plot AND steal the tittle of 4th war, Jesus Christ

[Blayze]

Blizzard calling this shit clusterfuck as 4th war is making me laugh and get me pissed at the same.

This actually proof that they indeed erased MOP from their minds, cause the war from wtlk-mop was supposed to be the 4th war, they rehashed mop plot AND steal the tittle of 4th war, Jesus Christ

How this works is after the Horde starts every Fourth War, Blizzard says "that wasn't the fourth war" so that the Horde can start the next Fourth War.

[Syegfryed]

How this works is after the Horde starts every Fourth War, Blizzard says "that wasn't the fourth war" so that the Horde can start the next Fourth War.

the alliance started the war back there.

[huth]

I am still not at all convinced N'zoth will be the final boss. He does not fit with anything relating to the Faction war theme of BfA.

8.2.5 would have ot pull a pretty big "Sylvanas is a cultist" card to have it make sense.

If he is, i hope it's a hold-the-line/escape encounter like Arthas in the final ICC 5man. I.e. a crushing defeat on our side.

[Sondrelk]

If he is, i hope it's a hold-the-line/escape encounter like Arthas in the final ICC 5man. I.e. a crushing defeat on our side.

Defeats do not really, mesh, with the concept of a final boss. People point out the escape from the Lich king boss in that one dungeon, but that only really worked like it did because we had a raid after where we defeated him proper.

I will admit i oculd be wrong though, i just don't think a boss where you lose would work that well as a gameplay gimmick.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Defeats do not really, mesh, with the concept of a final boss. People point out the escape from the Lich king boss in that one dungeon, but that only really worked like it did because we had a raid after where we defeated him proper.

I will admit i oculd be wrong though, i just don't think a boss where you lose would work that well as a gameplay gimmick.

I mean we've fought encounters where we don't outright kill someone or heck its just a fight to protect someone, why not sorta hold an enemy off but not a technical win.

[huth]

Defeats do not really, mesh, with the concept of a final boss. People point out the escape from the Lich king boss in that one dungeon, but that only really worked like it did because we had a raid after where we defeated him proper.

I will admit i oculd be wrong though, i just don't think a boss where you lose would work that well as a gameplay gimmick.

Oh, of course we'd eventually get to that. Just not in BfA. Though i disagree with your basic point. There's been more than a few final bosses that weren't actually defeated as such. Or that turned out to not be what they seemed.

[DeicideUH]

I mean we've fought encounters where we don't outright kill someone or heck its just a fight to protect someone, why not sorta hold an enemy off but not a technical win.

Because it feels unsatisfying from a storytelling PoV. We lose the final raid... and are left hanging for the entire drought and who-knows-how-many patches waiting for the story’s real conclusion.

It would make an expansion feel like filler.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Because it feels unsatisfying from a storytelling PoV. We lose the final raid... and are left hanging for the entire drought and who-knows-how-many patches waiting for the story’s real conclusion.

It would make an expansion feel like filler.

Presuming the drought is actually coming considering the gaps between 8.1 and 8.2 were. Forgot to say, people already think BFA is filler so.....yeah.. that seems to be a moot point.

[Sondrelk]

I mean we've fought encounters where we don't outright kill someone or heck its just a fight to protect someone, why not sorta hold an enemy off but not a technical win.

We still defeat the bosses though. Because that is what the narrative demands happen.

I could see a defeat work as a gameplay feature in almost any instance that is not the final raid boss. Had the first raid had N'zoth as the first boss and we lost, then we would still have time for the expansion ot end on a high note. Even if N'zoth is the penultimate boss in a raid, we lose and then we fight a proper final boss at the end where we win.

Sure, losing for dramatic tension is a proven concept, it happens all the time in questing afterall, but those losses are predicated on the knowledge that we will eventually win, because otherwise it wouldnt really be a satisfying story.


All in all, the problem lies in the large amount if time between the final raid and the next expansion. Had that time been shorter, somewhere in the region of 2 months, then it could work. But otherwise we are just kinda sitting around waiting for the resolution to the story that will not be coming.


Again though, i could be proven wrong, i just don't think a final boss we lose to in an expansion is a good idea, losing to leadup bosses, sure. Just not the final one.

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Presuming the drought is actually coming considering the gaps between 8.1 and 8.2 were. Forgot to say, people already think BFA is filler so.....yeah.. that seems to be a moot point.

To be honest, discussing this is getting int othe nitty gritty of player psychology vis-a-vis narrative design. So it is hard to explain concretely why it does not work.

An expansion can end with a sense of foreboding, of course. But unless whoever sees the story gets a resolution at the end that is somewhat satisfying it just wouldnt work.

[DeicideUH]

Presuming the drought is actually coming considering the gaps between 8.1 and 8.2 were. Forgot to say, people already think BFA is filler so.....yeah.. that seems to be a moot point.

The expansion hasn’t ended yet. 8.2.5 could very well be epic enough to change a lot of opinions on the story. And there’s still 8.3 coming...

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This title dude.......Veteran of the Fourth war...

It seems and sounds like no more Arbitrary factions... wow, i still think its a little dicey but again that title means a fucking lot. When the 4th war started... Vanilla?, Pandaria? BfA ???

IDK about impact on factions, seems like you're reaching there.

4th War started when Teldrassil burned, ends when Sylvanas is killed/desposed/whatever the hell happens this patch.

Also calling this the 4th War is stupid because what the hell was Garrosh then? The Third and a Half War?

[huth]

Because it feels unsatisfying from a storytelling PoV. We lose the final raid... and are left hanging for the entire drought and who-knows-how-many patches waiting for the story’s real conclusion.

It would make an expansion feel like filler.

Except that loss would be the conclusion. Not every story has a happy end.

[Sondrelk]

Except that loss would be the conclusion. Not every story has a happy end.

There is a subtle, nut nonetheless important distinction between a happy ending, and a satisfying ending. And losing at the end is not satisfying.

Just to take a note from a previous expansion. In Legion we got the satisfying conclusion to the Burning Legion story when we chained Sargeras in the Pantheon and destroyed the Burning Legion infrsstrucutre, though we did not get a happy ending as Azeroth is dying and the factions are at war.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well that's what happens when you headcanon what's considered "the 4th War". Which is probably best left for Blizzard to decide.

That they're calling the title "Veteran of the 4th War" just means the 4th War will end, but it's probably better to ask clarification from Blizzard on when the 4th War actually started.

They could for instance be considering it as just the beginning of BFA.

Especially since the numbered Wars appear to refer strictly to wars between Alliance/Horde. Not shit like the Legion invasion/Deathwing.

Idk man, the Third War was specifically about the other threats, such as the Undead, the Legion, and all. So, I don't know.

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I am still not at all convinced N'zoth will be the final boss. He does not fit with anything relating to the Faction war theme of BfA.

8.2.5 would have ot pull a pretty big "Sylvanas is a cultist" card to have it make sense.

N'zoth is free, we just had the Eternal Palace as a raid, everyone is hinting towards a final battle against the beast, the War Campaign is ending in 8.2.5...

What more do you want?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

There is a subtle, nut nonetheless important distinction between a happy ending, and a satisfying ending. And losing at the end is not satisfying.

Just to take a note from a previous expansion. In Legion we got the satisfying conclusion to the Burning Legion story when we chained Sargeras in the Pantheon and destroyed the Burning Legion infrsstrucutre, though we did not get a happy ending as Azeroth is dying and the factions are at war.

The most important thing is to have some kind of glimmer of hope, or way out that can be leveraged in the future.

Most people when they say they want a "bad ending" in WoW don't want that. They just want to blow the whole thing up and be done. Hell, that's the exact spot Shadowlands falls into.

[Syegfryed]

Also calling this the 4th War is stupid because what the hell was Garrosh then? The Third and a Half War?

it was just a prank bro

but in serious, the new team prob know shit about things before WoD, reusing mop plot might as well forget there was the 4th war

[TheFirstOnes]

That's like saying we're not going to Argus in 7.3 because "We only have Argus in the sky, but it's a planet. There's no way we could go there in the span of a patch", or like saying Archimonde isn't the final boss because "He is too powerful, he doesn't fully fit the overall story, and Blizzard themselves said that Grommash would be the final boss of WoD".

Blizzard has said a lot of things. For example: "There are no Old Gods in BFA".

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it was just a prank bro

but in serious, the new team prob know shit about things before WoD, reusing mop plot might as well forget there was the 4th war

I'm still pretty sure the 4th War is the entirety of WoW, up until Patch 8.2.5-8.3.