BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Foolicious]

who knows? it just said it has been told, i think its n'zoth who said that

It has been said by ogmots dream journal.

Dat blade has shiny eye. Always watchin us. Why you no see it?
Three lies. Da first one been told.
Bound by dat throne? No. Free. Free!
Da next gonna come soon. Maybe dey see dis one.

Interestingly enough another quote from the book has been confirmed today by sylvanas mentioning to have orchestrated the war to fed souls to the hungering darkness

Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.
Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!
Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!

Could this mean that khadgar and odyn aren't the lord of ravens? And this is a whisper not taken literally? Meaning that raven and crows stand for some kind of spirit or old god minions?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If you mean an expansion about the Shadowlands, then yes. If you mean the dumb Shadowlands leak then almost certainly not.

I'd say an expansion about Death (Sylvanas, her boss, the Shadowlands) is almost a guarantee at this point. Only way they have anything else in the barrel at this point is if the kooks saying "8.3 doesn't exist" are right.

Still hedging my bets against it being "New Continent: Shadowlands" unless we get Dragon Isles in 8.3. And even then I might just to be stubborn, that's really the one thing Blizzard can do at Blizzcon to totally lose me this time around.

Shadowlands the leak is roundly busted, you're right there.

[Nagawithlegs]

Could this mean that khadgar and odyn aren't the lord of ravens? And this is a whisper not taken literally? Meaning that raven and crows stand for some kind of spirit or old god minions?

Ravens and crows are very distinct, especially when there are certain characters associated closely with ravens.

Crows eating = generic bad guy motif. But it's much more likely that the Lord of Ravens is a guy actually associated with ravens (likely Khadgar, or even Medivh, but Odyn could also be it if they need a titan watcher to turn on the Forge of Origination).

[Sondrelk]

I'd say an expansion about Death (Sylvanas, her boss, the Shadowlands) is almost a guarantee at this point. Only way they have anything else in the barrel at this point is if the kooks saying "8.3 doesn't exist" are right.

Still hedging my bets against it being "New Continent: Shadowlands" unless we get Dragon Isles in 8.3. And even then I might just to be stubborn, that's really the one thing Blizzard can do at Blizzcon to totally lose me this time around.

Shadowlands the leak is roundly busted, you're right there.

I wouldnt put much stock into Shadowlands as a continent, dragon isles or a revamp of an old place is far more likely in my opinion. If Blizzard did not make teh Emerald dream into even a proper zone despite the skeleton of one being made in Vanilla, then why would they make one about an area that has been shown as either a ghostly mirror of the zones we normally have, or an empty forest. It does not really seem like the kind of place that inspires the imagination.

[Houle]

It has been said by ogmots dream journal.

Interestingly enough another quote from the book has been confirmed today by sylvanas mentioning to have orchestrated the war to fed souls to the hungering darkness

Could this mean that khadgar and odyn aren't the lord of ravens? And this is a whisper not taken literally? Meaning that raven and crows stand for some kind of spirit or old god minions?

Damn, almost forgot about that.
Yeah its kinda obvious now, the crows represent the death entity (helya or mueh'zala most likely) sylvanas serves, and them getting "fat" means said entity is growing more powerful through the dead/souls from the war

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I wouldnt put much stock into Shadowlands as a continent, dragon isles or a revamp of an old place is far more likely in my opinion. If Blizzard did not make teh Emerald dream into even a proper zone despite the skeleton of one being made in Vanilla, then why would they make one about an area that has been shown as either a ghostly mirror of the zones we normally have, or an empty forest. It does not really seem like the kind of place that inspires the imagination.

They could of if they really wanted to, it just wasn't how things went. I mean the Dream is all about Life and life comes in many flavors.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I wouldnt put much stock into Shadowlands as a continent, dragon isles or a revamp of an old place is far more likely in my opinion. If Blizzard did not make teh Emerald dream into even a proper zone despite the skeleton of one being made in Vanilla, then why would they make one about an area that has been shown as either a ghostly mirror of the zones we normally have, or an empty forest. It does not really seem like the kind of place that inspires the imagination.

Emerald Dream is probably a good comparison. I think Shadowlands can be the site of a raid, maybe a single zone, but is too samey to be an entire expansion setting.

[Sondrelk]

Ravens and crows are very distinct, especially when there are certain characters associated closely with ravens.

Crows eating = generic bad guy motif. But it's much more likely that the Lord of Ravens is a guy actually associated with ravens (likely Khadgar, or even Medivh, but Odyn could also be it if they need a titan watcher to turn on the Forge of Origination).

Is the Il'gynoth whispers and Ogmot journal have shown me anything it is that they are often deceptively easy to understand, the problem arises from them usually being about a future event, which makes parsing them a bit more complicated.

Boy-king for instance was really only a discussion point because people thought it might be more complicated than being about the character who had been referred to as teh boy-king several times. Same with the line about the lady dropping the hseep off a cliff. It makes full sense now, and it is mostly exactly what people first thought, it is about Sylvanas who uses teh Horde for shady means while they blindly rush to their deaths.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Also since this is the second time today I've seen people follow this line of thought, I can't wait for the new hit leak to be "World of Warcraft: Reorigination."

[Sondrelk]

They could of if they really wanted to, it just wasn't how things went. I mean the Dream is all about Life and life comes in many flavors.

That is the rub though, isnt it. If they didnt want to do the Emerald dream which should have been a zone designers wet dream, then why do Shadowlands which has even flimsier representation. Several descrptions of it describe it as little more than a featureless black void.

Still thoughy, we weill see. As Slowpoke mentioned, i think it could very well get the Emerald dream treatment, where it is at most a zone (akin to Val'shara being a "copy" of the emerald dream) or a raid.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That is the rub though, isnt it. If they didnt want to do the Emerald dream which should have been a zone designers wet dream, then why do Shadowlands which has even flimsier representation. Several descrptions of it describe it as little more than a featureless black void.

Still thoughy, we weill see. As Slowpoke mentioned, i think it could very well get the Emerald dream treatment, where it is at most a zone (akin to Val'shara being a "copy" of the emerald dream) or a raid.

I would hope not because Northrend was more then just ALL ICE AND SNOW and undead. It was all way more then that. I'd say they can do it if that is what they want to do. Much like the Rift of Aln being..well pretty much a room of nothing.

[Nyel]

I'm not even sure how that would even play out. I also hope Bolvar doesn't sit on his ass during this, he's kinda a lord of Death...sort of.

I mean Sylvanas and Bolvar have somehow the same goals yet they hate each other? Or did Sylvanas just hate Lich King Arthas? I don't even know anymore. Sylvanas teaming up with Bolvar because of "Death" makes sense or is bs?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I mean Sylvanas and Bolvar have somehow the same goals yet they hate each other? Or did Sylvanas just hate Lich King Arthas? I don't even know anymore. Sylvanas teaming up with Bolvar because of "Death" makes sense or is bs?

Bolvar largely is still just chilling out and ensuring the Scourge doesn't kill everyone. If Sylvanas' goal is Arthas-esque in the slightest, they're gonna be enemies.

[Sondrelk]

I would hope not because Northrend was more then just ALL ICE AND SNOW and undead. It was all way more then that. I'd say they can do it if that is what they want to do. Much like the Rift of Aln being..well pretty much a room of nothing.

That is a fair point, but i still hold by that expecting Shadowlands to be a continent is pretty bold. There has to be a level of variety to it, and the best you might be able to conjure for Shadowlands without completely trampling previous depictions of it might be a Dante's inferno depiction, except with less torture and more nothing as you go deeper.

Still though, we shall see. There is definitely an expansion dealing with Death coming soon, and it has to be somewhere.

[Hitei]

I mean Sylvanas and Bolvar have somehow the same goals yet they hate each other? Or did Sylvanas just hate Lich King Arthas? I don't even know anymore. Sylvanas teaming up with Bolvar because of "Death" makes sense or is bs?

Why would you think they have the same goals?
Bolvar's goal seems to be quietly amassing power by bringing strong things into the fold as undead. He's essentially a classic tyrant.

Rather interestingly, Delaryn Summermoon saw straight through Sylvanas as she was dying at the Burning of Teldrassil (which is probably why Saurfang directly called back to her in the Mok'gora). Sylvanas is literally waging a war against life itself. Not "I'll kill everyone and then I'll control Azeroth." but "Nothing lasts and everything in existence will eventually die." She believes life to be suffering and death to be the true state of existence/purpose/being. She's become the harbinger of death itself (whether that death is an entity or just the concept we will have to wait and see) and her end game is basically just erasing life from existence.

[George Costanza]

Shadowlands is just ghost form tbh.

[Syegfryed]

Could this mean that khadgar and odyn aren't the lord of ravens? And this is a whisper not taken literally? Meaning that raven and crows stand for some kind of spirit or old god minions?

i don't think they are related with this quote, this is the talk about crows eating the dead, not rly about the lord of ravens

[Cyram]

I will not stop until the people who want N'zoth as a final boss admits that narrative and thematic consistency means nothing to them.
If you want Blizzard to admit failure and drive the story into a ditch just so they can have N'zoth be defeated in the same patch he showed up, thn i can accept that.
If you want Blizzard to leave the faction war storyline unresolved forever so you can complain about it in future expansions then sure, i can respect that.

But i will not accept that people honestly, and earnestly believes that N'zoth is the principal antagonist in this faction war focused expansion while Sylvanas is still kicking.


And no, Sylvanas does ont have to die, she can live just fine, but she is the villain of this expansion, and watching the villain run away at the beginning of the third act to be replaced by what amounts ot a secondary characters is lunacy.

Wait, so Uldir and an unofficial Old God didn't happen?
The Tidesages and the whole void corruption and the Shrine of Storms was all war-driven?
The Crucibles of storm was just a one-off thing?
Xalatath, Azshara and Nzoth being freed was just for the lulz?

Dude, the War Campaign is over. Its culmination was Saurfang being the martyr needed to remind people that War is Bad™, and Sylvanas is now free to be an agent of Death, amassing an army that's gonna function as the main point of a future Shadowlands vs Black Empire expansion.
Like it or not, Sylvanas escaped and is gonna be a next Kerrigan, or Illidan. The Fourth War is over. We even get a title.
This whole thing was setting up both N'zoth and Death as threats - N'zoth is the one that's set up as the most urgent, because the whole Death thing still has a lot of unresolved matters (Helya being back, Bwomsandi's boss, Mueh'zala having one little shrine in Dazaralor, hell even Bolvar got some this Xpac)...

[George Costanza]

I would not bother with sondrelk at this point.

[TaliaKirana]

Yeah, I've been expecting the expansion to pivot to N'zoth as the final boss since not long after the expansion was revealed. That opinion has only grown more certain as the expansion went on.