Originally Posted by
BiggestNoob
I like how you repeated his "argument' without any thought of your own. 10/10, big brains you got there.
You must've been triggered so hard you replied twice to the same message. His comment actually retards discussion about gearing and competition, which is an actual issue that warrants some level of discussion, not idiotic strawmanning from the bench of a US 700 guild that gets heroic G'huun down on week 8.
It's simply wrong. No argument made. You're real smart, guy.
Thanks for asking and not being a fucking idiot about it, like the people who commented before you.
Let's break down what this guy said:
This is an objective fact. In Legion and now also in BfA (azerite pieces not dropping from M+, woohoo), but particularly in Legion, mythic raiders had a huge advantage in qualifying for MDI. Overpowered trinkets (eg: umbral glaives), very strong set bonuses, higher ilvl gear with scaling on things like avoidance to hit cap without gimping your DPS, etc. Mythic raiders had an advantage in M+. Now on the face of it, that's not a problem. What's a problem is qualifying for MDI. Why is it a problem? Because MDI is done on relatively easy keys on a tournament realm. Fixed key affixes, fixed gear, and now fixed classes. Practice on tournament realms had more of an impact than doing higher keys with harder affixes on live servers. PvP tournaments are similar. Competition here is normalized *because* there was an imbalance. M+ doesn't award anything close to mid-late expansion raid gear, and the first MDI was after ToS, which had plenty of this.
The top guilds didn't win either MDI. <Ego> won the first and a group of M+ enthusiasts who raid mythic on the side won the second.
Where's Method? Not even in the finals? The gods of raiding, tons of split clears, 15+ hour days, pumping world firsts left and right can't seem to get it up at MDI. Hmmm... :thinking:
Quals for a normalized competition shouldn't be dominated by people with an objective advantage. Even if there wasn't a competition using tournament realms and gear, there's still a community run competition for pushing the highest keys on any given set of affixes. This, too, is largely influenced by mythic raiding. It wouldn't be such a problem, but the people who don't have extra throughput or mitigation as a result have to work harder to make the same things happen, refining their play through tens of keys for each dungeon. When the MDI was announced, groups from top raiding guilds got together and smashed keys that were hard by M+ standards, not the hardest keys, but high enough to qualify over groups that spent tens of hours a week doing M+ and played much better. Great play wasn't involved, they were actually able to ignore things until they ran into the same 1-shot walls that hindered much more experienced groups. That ties nicely into the next idiotic non-point made by our friend here:
The point of mythic raiding to a certain group of people is killing bosses as quickly as possible. That comes down to obtaining every possible advantage. To many it's just for fun because heroic is far too easy. Getting big gear is a side benefit, it's not the primary goal for everyone, probably not even the majority. Is anyone in Method obsessed with non-stop spamming M+ until they're as close as possible to 395? Or are they more interested in getting a world first? If you normalized their gear, would they still not be pushing for world first?
The second point here is idiotic. Method doesn't raid 20 hours a day, nor did anyone from their roster when MDI was announced. There are a *lot* of people who do M+ far, far more than they raid, 40+ hours a week. Top guilds front-load an enormous amount of time, then spend basically no time in mythic raids. Apparently these people who put in huge hours in M+ every single week should for some reason be significantly weaker? That's just absurd. There is no serious M+ team that spends 1 fucking hour a week doing M+. Jdotb streams that stuff every day for many hours a day, his team won the second MDI. Should he be 5-10 ilvls lower with less throughput than someone from Method who spends less actual time in a mythic raid then decides "hey, maybe I should try to qualify for this MDI?" To be fair, the Method team in the second MDI was a group that spent a *huge* amount of time doing M+ outside of mythic raiding, but the first one was a farce of people with big egos in top guilds thinking they'd steamroll the competition based on the keys they pushed on live servers for a total of 2 weeks.
One possible fix for that is qualifiers under tournament conditions. That's a decent discussion to be had. If the objective of a mythic raid race is to see who is objectively the best team, a genuine question is whether or not the playing field should be even for everyone. Should it be possible for a group to put in hundreds of hours before a raid opens gaining advantage to crush their competition? Dismissing that out of hand is stupid. Method works hard for their world firsts, but it would be ignorant to say a large part of that isn't a combination of the massive amount of gear they generally have going into a raid and the huge amount of time they put into progression itself. If some world 200 guild put in the same hours on progression without the prep they'd be nowhere close to Method, and if Method put in 16 hours in-raid, after all the prep they do, they'd still destroy most guilds. Are they the best raid group in the world? Nobody actually knows. If that's not something that should be known from a competition in mythic raiding, so be it, but dismissing the discussion by appealing to M+ which *is* done under tournament conditions, and claiming qualification for such should be handed to mythic raiders? That's retarded.
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