(PVP)aff & des warlock needs passive damage decreased in PVP

[shinewaylee]

Having played one week in pvp,in 3v3 Arena，aff & destro are too fragile to be killed. AND very few healing class can heal warlock safely when they are converged.

demo have soul link which is OK ,but damage is so low and can be defused easily.

In last Edition，destro had 60s cooldown Unending Resolve , affi has a 50% healthstone,but in 8.0 we all lose and nothing make up.

Dark pact and Demo skin are too dust in PVP, and dark pact can no longger sacrifice demo pets. The third row talent should be redesigned for PVP like this as my opinion:

Demo Skin: give you 15% physical damaged creased and 15% healed extro addtion;
Dark pact: you sacrifice your demo pets and carry forward pet's 100% health for 15s;
Buring Rush: 30s cooldown, remove all slow effect and give you 50% speed up for 10 seconds, needs 10% health.

do you think so?or you have better advise for walcok pvp?

[shadycharacter1]

I don't think they will redesign talents or abilities at this point, the best you can hope for is aura adjustments.

[sugarfree]

I think demo is fine, but can stand slight damage buffs (in PvP). Its damage sources are too many that's why you don't get a feeling of high burst because it's too spread out. I've seen demo locks massacre casters and melee alike on BG's. Arenas a different story. Warlocks in general are just suffering because of the current meta. And who wants to bring one when you can outperform it with less effort. What I would love to have in Demo is Master Summoner baseline - and maybe another casted spell instant. That should also resolve some issue in PvE beause this spec is as mobile as a house and they keep designing encounters that have heavy movement.

Destruction and Affliction definitely needs 1 minute Unending Resolve OR at least Soul Link - both might be too good. However, if they keep failing on bringing down the OP specs then yes, I'd support having both. Haven't been playing Destro, but it feels like it also needs damage buffs especially with Incinerate and Chaos Bolt. The spec is so cooldown-based it's terrible - it's like a 3 minute mage nowadays.

I feel like we're being held back because our hard counters are the current meta right now.

[Xanatas]

A passive damage decrease in pvp don't help at all for me as a good CC and a good self healing. Because with a reduction of damage you can live another 2 sec, but you can't cast off anything under pressure of a melee.

For me need shadowfury istant and the return of MOP howl of terror (every hit reduce CD by 1 sec), we lack of CC and defense. And OFC unending resolve 3 min cd is too long. Destruction need back ember tap to survive and kite.

I see at MOP (in 5.4) when warlock have soul link, teleport, howl of terror, shadowfury istant and good self healing. The class was very fun and playable. Now we have nothing and the class is a free kill.

[Milli Lyfe Style]

they haven't even addressed anything about warlocks in pvp even after the weekend tournament cup where they literally made warlocks a meme.

[sugarfree]

It's just ridiculous that they pruned everything from Warlocks and Spriests (evidently these classes/specs are at the bottom) but yet gave DH's everything. Then put that on top of Rogues, Ferals and Warriors that also seems like they did not lose anything on top of stupid damage output.

They always say they're not biased with classes, but seeing as how melee has all the tools to lock down a caster and yet a caster has to "give something up" in return for something, it's obvious they're biased or just damn clueless. You mean to tell me no class dev pointed out an issue of giving warlocks a casted Shadowfury? It's not even a freaking targeted spell that can't be moved out of, nor does it last long enough to warrant the cast time, nor does it have a short CD. It's like dumping all the cons without the pros. It's stupid.

[Xanatas]

they haven't even addressed anything about warlocks in pvp even after the weekend tournament cup where they literally made warlocks a meme.

but... how do they not see how the warlock is currently rubbish in all pvp situation?

- - - Updated - - -

It's just ridiculous that they pruned everything from Warlocks and Spriests (evidently these classes/specs are at the bottom) but yet gave DH's everything. Then put that on top of Rogues, Ferals and Warriors that also seems like they did not lose anything on top of stupid damage output.

They always say they're not biased with classes, but seeing as how melee has all the tools to lock down a caster and yet a caster has to "give something up" in return for something, it's obvious they're biased or just damn clueless. You mean to tell me no class dev pointed out an issue of giving warlocks a casted Shadowfury? It's not even a freaking targeted spell that can't be moved out of, nor does it last long enough to warrant the cast time, nor does it have a short CD. It's like dumping all the cons without the pros. It's stupid.

pay attention, which then comes the genius who writes "warlock is fine, affliction warlock over the top in raiding single target" or "you 2 shotting people with destruction"


seriously... look at the mage frost...

they have blink (our circle), frost nova (our shadowfury/howl of terror), ice block (our old dark bargain), shield (our soul link), ice lance (our old fel flame)
Make blink a talent and choose between frost nova or shield, after give frost nova an higher CD and 1.5 sec cast time, then remove ice block and ice lance from the game. I know, frost nova it's not a stun like shadowfury etc. etc., but follow my reasoning...

The mage become in 2 sec a garbage in pvp.

Why a warlock have touched so hard in "prune" unlike melee? or almost all caster?

In MOP (5.4.8) warlock have to choose between demonic breath/mortal coil/shadowfury istant. With teleport AND howl of terror baseline. In pvp situation the class war very funny and enjoiable, now we have NOTHING. I can understand few change, few prune, but now is impossible to play this class in pvp.

I am very angry and demoralized right now, i pay 12.99 eur/month like a rogue, a DH or another class in the game. I don't want to reroll, i'm falling in love for warlock since vanilla.

Why my favorite class are a free kill ATM and cannot do anything versus most classes and other classes can do aoe damage crazy, high CC, high single target damage, high self healing AND utility?

Ah, right, now come the genius "the game is balanced to 3Vs3" (a mage or a rogue or a DH can do all 1 v 1, a warlock not) or "affliction dps is high, the class is fine" or "not all spec can work well" (WHAT? It's a game, must be funny)

sorry for the wall text but i'm very angry and demoralized. Now i'm raped by everything when i try to kill a mob in world pvp, this is so distressing, i see only red number and immunities or absorb or abnormal self healing versus me.

But i have the great drain life in destruction (2k healing per tick at 360 IL), kicked after 1 sec. Or i can incinerate an enemy with my powerful spell (4k incinerate, health pool 130k... or 15/20k chaos lolt)

[Warning]

Locks need some additional passive defense (5-10%), so they stop dying in a single stun, but beyond that they need some of their tools to fight back restored. I don't really want to become an immortal dampening fortress. I think defensives should be active and the playstyle where we could kite with port + shadowflame was way cooler than unbreakable turret mode. Instant Sfury off the GCD would be good, but I think they also need a short CD anti melee/hunter mitigation tool.

Putting UR at 1 minute CD imo wouldn't be the best solution because it would also affect casters which we don't need that much help against. Besides that I think that if they do go ahead with these buffs they need to nerf inevitable demise to only stack to 50 in PVP. It's a fun trait but at 100 stacks it becomes a broken gimmicky oneshot.

This is the gameplay we should strive for.

[venomancer]

Warlock's toolkit feels very lackluster compared to other classes indeed. You can't set anything up by yourself, and you don't have anything that other classes "fear" from you, aside from destro having a longass cast that will deal 50% of a mortal strike in damage.

Sadly, warlock in PvP is indeed a meme right now, and I really hope this issue gets fixed soon.

[sugarfree]

Locks need some additional passive defense (5-10%), so they stop dying in a single stun, but beyond that they need some of their tools to fight back restored. I don't really want to become an immortal dampening fortress. I think defensives should be active and the playstyle where we could kite with port + shadowflame was way cooler than unbreakable turret mode. Instant Sfury off the GCD would be good, but I think they also need a short CD anti melee/hunter mitigation tool.

Putting UR at 1 minute CD imo wouldn't be the best solution because it would also affect casters which we don't need that much help against. Besides that I think that if they do go ahead with these buffs they need to nerf inevitable demise to only stack to 50 in PVP. It's a fun trait but at 100 stacks it becomes a broken gimmicky oneshot.

Reading a lot of suggestions of giving us base stamina increase and armor buff. I think that will do fine as well, and I agree, we do not need help against casters. That's why buffing us needs to be careful as I don't want to be overpowered.

But all in all, they REALLY need to bring down a lot of ridiculous specs right now. Sometimes I wonder if warlocks being ridiculously weak is just a result of everyone else being ridiculously overtuned.

[Xanatas]

Locks need some additional passive defense (5-10%), so they stop dying in a single stun, but beyond that they need some of their tools to fight back restored. I don't really want to become an immortal dampening fortress. I think defensives should be active and the playstyle where we could kite with port + shadowflame was way cooler than unbreakable turret mode. Instant Sfury off the GCD would be good, but I think they also need a short CD anti melee/hunter mitigation tool.

Putting UR at 1 minute CD imo wouldn't be the best solution because it would also affect casters which we don't need that much help against. Besides that I think that if they do go ahead with these buffs they need to nerf inevitable demise to only stack to 50 in PVP. It's a fun trait but at 100 stacks it becomes a broken gimmicky oneshot.

This is the gameplay we should strive for.

maybe i write an idiocy, but for me shadowfury istant+old howl of terror will fix the class in pvp (and damage output, see destruction and demonology)

i love the mop playstile, destruction was awesome.

[Deleted]

i preffered cata playstyle with Soul Swap. They took off all fun tools from this class like shadowflame howl drain mana. Playing agains melee cleaves training u all day piss me off.

[Xanatas]

Reading a lot of suggestions of giving us base stamina increase and armor buff. I think that will do fine as well, and I agree, we do not need help against casters. That's why buffing us needs to be careful as I don't want to be overpowered.

But all in all, they REALLY need to bring down a lot of ridiculous specs right now. Sometimes I wonder if warlocks being ridiculously weak is just a result of everyone else being ridiculously overtuned

certain classes being ridiculously overtuned, other like us lost every form of defense and attack.

I don' know what do they have in mind when they massacred the class, it is very clear when you remove all defense and istant...

[evertonbelmontt]

they haven't even addressed anything about warlocks in pvp even after the weekend tournament cup where they literally made warlocks a meme.

Speaking of it, I didn't had the oportunity to watch. Was there any warlocks in there? Or there was none and that was the meme?

[Milli Lyfe Style]

Speaking of it, I didn't had the oportunity to watch. Was there any warlocks in there? Or there was none and that was the meme?

i saw 2. Maldiva and chanimals and they died really quick. After that they drew a lock on a pce a paper and showed how you win as lock. reroll

[Deleted]

This is the gameplay we should strive for.

>The 180 spin shadowflame
Oh how I miss ye.


The damage isn't really that bad.
Affliction could probably use some tuning, it got by on dots + Deathbolt but with the DB nerf it's having to cheese out things like DL Azerite traits and the recently nerfed SO Agony trait, doesn't really look healthy when it's in the healthiest place when it's having to coast by on armor traits as opposed to core toolkit that's augmented, but the playstyle isn't dreadful.
Destruction just gets locked down by mongo melee comps that are so dominant, CBs start hurting if you let them through but if you're playing against a team that allows them then you'd probably have won even if you were playing demo. Also really hate the reliance on the 3min CD (Both infernal + Unending for interrupt immunity) + Sup trait and chain casting CBs, promotes the dreadful gameplay that plagued Legion where you just sit around waiting on CDs and try to blow someone up in them and, if that fails, go back to playing like a bitch - except that option isn't really available if you're as squishy as we are currently.

Which is my main problem. For the TANKY YET IMMOBILE caster class that Blizzard constantly brands us, we're a paper thin glass cannon (if you're being generous on output) that gets by on teleporting around. The only tanky part of our toolkit is GoSac + DS shield after a VW last stand, but you're sacrificing your silence for that which always feels dreadful.

I really wish we had things like Curse of Exhaustion and / or Shadowflame back in our toolkit and some innate tankiness, jack up the CD on ports if you need to but warlocks shouldn't be this fragile. Teleporting around should be a mages job.

[shinewaylee]

Having read many suggestions, in my opinion, warlock does need more cc but defensive power. Instant Sfury or Hawl of horror cant prevent you from death when we are surround by melee attack.
The best role for lock is making dps and can tank a lot of damage when we are in passive situation, so good defensen power could be given to lock naturally.However we lose it even gain the worst.
Mage should have the counter-check abitity, lock dont need to be like them.

[Xanatas]

Having read many suggestions, in my opinion, warlock does need more cc but defensive power. Instant Sfury or Hawl of horror cant prevent you from death when we are surround by melee attack.
The best role for lock is making dps and can tank a lot of damage when we are in passive situation, so good defensen power could be given to lock naturally.However we lose it even gain the worst.
Mage should have the counter-check abitity, lock dont need to be like them.

but if you are surrounded by melee, a stun aoe istant followed by an howl of terror can remove many player from you.

A defensive more strong (shield, soul leech etc.) don't help us in the middle of the melee maybe, and become very OP versus caster in my opinion. Better armor can help us, but you die the same under the train of a melee without a cast.

The synegy between shadowfury/mortal coil and howl of terror is maybe the best combo to survive and open a window to cast off a spell.

For me, eh

[Warning]

Having read many suggestions, in my opinion, warlock does need more cc but defensive power. Instant Sfury or Hawl of horror cant prevent you from death when we are surround by melee attack.
The best role for lock is making dps and can tank a lot of damage when we are in passive situation, so good defensen power could be given to lock naturally.However we lose it even gain the worst.
Mage should have the counter-check abitity, lock dont need to be like them.

The thing is, just being tanky is no fun for either the lock or his enemies. It's certainly possible to make someone tanky enough to just get stunned, kicked and beaten over and over and still win an arena match or world PVP encounter. But how fun is that really? The person doing everything to stop you will feel cheated when they lose, and the lock will just feel frustrated despite their win because they had a horrible time and didn't really "earn" their victory. Purely passive defenses don't really work well gameplay wise. We need to be MORE tanky, but that isn't the only thing we need for fun gameplay. We need to be able to set up kills and make plays. That's why I linked the video earlier, so people could see what lock PVP can look like when we have enough tools. The tankyness is still there but the survival is also dependent on proper play.

[CuchuCachu]

Honestly I'd like us to be genuinely tanky. That's supposed to be our thing but I dont feel it, and I see Mages having an easier time cheesing mechanics with defensive abilities like iceblock so I feel cheated