Captain Marvel [2019]

[NihilSustinet]

So faux outrage basically.

yup. and a lot of people have bought into it. its pathetic. ive heard people literally say that she said men arent welcome to see her movie AT ALL. propaganda machine working hard on this one.

[Jshadowhunter]

So faux outrage basically.

yup. and a lot of people have bought into it. its pathetic. ive heard people literally say that she said men arent welcome to see her movie AT ALL. propaganda machine working hard on this one.

What about the bit that started all of this?
When people complained after the 1st trailer that Larson should smile because her facial expressions in the trailer were all a plank of wood, to the point where people for the gag started to photoshop smiles on the shots (which I admit it makes her look more appealing) and she came out scereaming SEXISM?
Followed up by "if men can be emotionless and stonefaced why can't women too" under assumption that men having stonefaced expressions means that they're tough...

[Koji2k11]

when mainstream media is praising the movie into the heavens you know something is fishy, it's weird nobody complained about alita or wonder woman i guess those movies were not woke enough for the media to be mentioned

[un_known]

Probably the room and 21 jump street imo

She can do heavy drama and light comedy, good range

There was also that small stint in Scott pilgrim vs the world as NV

[Jshadowhunter]

when mainstream media is praising the movie into the heavens you know something is fishy

yeah, That too.

[Simulacrum]

Not actually what happened. Her comments were about a specific movie that she liked. It was not a general comment about all movies or all reviews. She thought a wrinkle in time was good because it fits her demographic. She commented that old white men were not the demographic yet thats whos reviews everyone sees when they look at reviews online. She commented that she wanted more than just them doing reviews but she said it in an unflattering way. It was then taken out of context to mean all movies instead of just the one movie she was talking about.

It was then weaponized by trolls to try and create negative hype around the movie.

A few weeks ago tracking numbers came out, some had it higher than others. You know what happened? People took the high number subtracted the low number and then a few hundred videos started popping up on youtube about how Captain Marvel lost 80 million dollars. Then to further troll they started bombing the audience thing on Rotten Tomatoes saying they dont want to see the movie. And like clockwork a few hundred videos started popping up on youtube talking about how Captain marvel already had a rotten raiting and no one wanted to see it even though pre ticket sales are 3rd in the MCU behind Infinity war and black panther.

Brie seems pretty stupid, but she maybe accidentally did bring up a good point in the comment about how critics aren't representative of the audience. That's not exactly news though. Lots of movies out there with huge critic scores and shit audience scores or vice versa. Then she, being stupid, made that a conversation about "white men" instead of about how critics are unrepresentative of the audience in general, never mind any specific audience. She took a real problem and conflated it with racism and sexism, making the response she got all but inevitable. I'd like to see some guy get up on stage before a big blockbuster movie and tell the press that he doesn't care what female critics (especially black ones) has to say about the movies he likes, and the movie he's starring in, and also that he'd like to see less of them among the press during his tour.

Interpretations aside though, I actually agree with her. A Wrinkle in Time (assuming she's right, I haven't seen it and don't plan to) isn't for old white men, so what they have to say about it doesn't matter much to the target audience of black girls or whoever it is. I also think action movies with sexy women in them aren't for girls, and that what they have to say about how misogynistic they think those movies are doesn't matter. And, interestingly, just like how black girls' opinions aren't especially well represented amongst movie critics, mine aren't either, and I'm an (increasingly old) white guy. How could that be, if the problem is old white guys? Shouldn't all these people who are the same age and sex and race as me share my perspective on things? Obviously, they don't, because it isn't about age/sex/race, it's about culture. Which is why her statements are stupid, even if she didn't intend them to come out that way (which I believe she didn't).

Would also point out, the "trolls" who "weaponized" her statements were the press, drumming up clickbait articles by the dozens with headlines like 'Brie Larson doesn't want old white men reviewing her movie' even though she didn't exactly say that. Randoms on forums or youtube or chans or whatever didn't generate this controversy, though they sure picked up and ran with it once it was in motion.

Anyway, this really is just a problem with review aggregation sites. All they do is... aggregate reviews. They're not supposed to represent any given specific demographic - or, if they are, then they sure don't know how to go about it. If you wanna know what black girls think of a movie, you don't go look at its rotten tomato score, you go read the reviews of black girls. Same for disgusting old white male sexists like myself; I don't go read the RT critic score to help figure out if I wanna go see a movie or not. I go read a review from someone who has the same (disgusting) taste in movies as me. Y'know, where are all the snarky youtubers making derogatory reviews about how Rey is the worst thing to happen to star wars since that one guy's son? Where's Rich Evans' opinion rated in the RT score?

Also, it shouldn't really matter if her press days are overwhelmingly white and male. Their job is to report on the movie and what she has to say, isn't it? Not insert their own cultural biases into it? Though if that is the case, and how we want it, I guess I got no problem with getting rid of some of those white males, no skin off my bone when a few leeches I have nothing in common with and who probably hate me lose their jobs to be replaced by different (but same) leeches.

If we're gonna explicitly discriminate based on ethnicity though, I demand press audiences also feature more openly sexist white old men, to accurately represent me. I'm an unrepresented minority too, 'ya know.

[NihilSustinet]

What about the bit that started all of this?
When people complained after the 1st trailer that Larson should smile because her facial expressions in the trailer were all a plank of wood, to the point where people for the gag started to photoshop smiles on the shots (which I admit it makes her look more appealing) and she came out scereaming SEXISM?
Followed up by "if men can be emotionless and stonefaced why can't women too" under assumption that men having stonefaced expressions means that they're tough...

well it does have that air of the random stranger saying "hey why dont you smile more? youre prettier when you smile". cant blame her for being upset by it.

[DemonHunter18]

they didn't just complain about her acting.

they were literally offending her.

saying that one party can offend while the offended one should just take all those offensive stuff from them because reasons is hypocritical.

btw, didn't the mod already banned people who were bringing this political stuff again???

[Jshadowhunter]

they didn't just complain about her acting.

they were literally offending her.

saying that one party can offend while the offended one should just take all those offensive stuff from them because reasons is hypocritical.

That's the 101 on how things backfire on the one trying to sell something to the audience.

[DemonHunter18]

That's the 101 on how things backfire on the one trying to sell something to the audience.

I don't care.

if someone scrutinized my hard work over the world, I would either do two things

1. I would fight back which won't have the best results but I will have my stance
2. I would quit

besides, CM won't flop.

this is enough from me when it comes to political stuff.

this thread ain't for that.

[Jshadowhunter]

Y'all seem super hostile against her solely for the fact that she's a woman.

Nobody complained about Wonder Woman.

[Simulacrum]

If robert Downey jr said what she said would you all be reacting this way?

Probably not. Not because it would be less problematic if he said it, but because he wouldn't be able to hide behind the being-a-woman shield when he got rightly criticized for it, so you wouldn't be here to defend him based on his genetalia, so the conversation would sputter out faster.

[Orby]

Before you guys continue just know you are treading back into drama territory again. Unless you hunger for infractions I suggest we tune it back.

[Falbrogna]

This. Don't get me wrong I hate most feminists and I hate the whole "woke" crap, but I can't help but keep thinking if a lot of the negative comments in this thread wouldn't exist if cpt marvel was a man instead. Y'all seem super hostile against her solely for the fact that she's a woman.

Close point, but not quite correct the reasoning.
See, my main issue on this matter is that she seems to be trying to "play the man" so to speak, and that feels jarring and forced because that's simply not how our perception of human beings work.

Let me explain.

I've seen a few covers and press material with her dressed as Cpt. Marvel and you know what they reminded me of? Ghostbuster's 2016 covers.
You know, that whole "it's a woman but takes a butch pose with crossed arms and a frowny face to the best of how a macho man would". You can't help but feel a disconnect because she's not trying to capitalize on herself but rather trying to imitate something that she isn't.

Wonder Woman didn't do that. She was strong, confident, capable AND beautifully feminine in her press releases and covers.
She didn't try to be a man, she acted like a woman capitalizing on her strenghts while retaining her identity as a powerful warrior amazoness.

Brie Larson is, arguably, a beautiful woman. But instead of capitalizing on herself like WW did she's trying her best to appear strong the way a man would, not the way a woman would. Macho pose, stretched arms, "grrrowl!" frowny faces...
This is what people meant when telling Larson to "smile", they didn't want her to actually smile, they wanted her to stop playing the man.

Because even if people can't explain exactly how with words their brain does recognize she's forcing an image that doesn't mesh well with her.

[Simulacrum]

I wouldn't be here to defend her or you wouldn't be here to attack her?

The former, like I said. You even in so many words admit to not even noticing this criticism when it's aimed at men instead of women.

[tyrlaan]

Nobody complained about Wonder Woman.

Yeah, actually they did. A lot. You never post honestly.


Can we stop with the political derailing yet again

[Orby]

Can we stop with the political derailing yet again

Ikr. I just wanna avoid the frikkin drama and just talk about the movie, which is hard to do when people wont shut the hell up about it lol.

[Renedric]

They ruined the movie for me when they director came out and said she'll be the most powerful character in the MCU, more powerful than thanos. What's the point then? they better keep that trash out of the MCU. The MCU doesn't need a superman.

[ohiostate124]

They ruined the movie for me when they director came out and said she'll be the most powerful character in the MCU, more powerful than thanos. What's the point then? they better keep that trash out of the MCU. The MCU doesn't need a superman.

Have they ever marketing any other character as the most powerful before the movie even came out? Not counting possibly Hulk since that’s his whole thing and strongest doesn’t necessarily mean most powerful.

[Svifnymr]

This. Don't get me wrong I hate most feminists and I hate the whole "woke" crap, but I can't help but keep thinking if a lot of the negative comments in this thread wouldn't exist if cpt marvel was a man instead. Y'all seem super hostile against her solely for the fact that she's a woman.

If robert Downey jr said what she said would you all be reacting this way?

Henry Cavill as Superman. Plenty of criticism for his lack of emoting in the role. Not sure I've ever seen a response from Cavill calling his fans names or stuff. It's just an accepted fact, as far as I know, though a youtuber's suggestion they use animatronics to give his face more emotion might be the a bit to the far end.

Don't confuse people complaining about Brie as Marvel for people complaining about Woman as Marvel. People complaining that Wonder Woman's boobs were too small is sexist, folks complaining about Wonder Woman's accent, not so much.

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They ruined the movie for me when they director came out and said she'll be the most powerful character in the MCU, more powerful than thanos. What's the point then? they better keep that trash out of the MCU. The MCU doesn't need a superman.

I remember them saying she would be the most powerful, but don't recall a comparison to Thanos, just figured it was vs other heroes. As I've said before though, I'm tired of the hero vs villain with same strength stuff, so whether she's more powerful or less powerful, I want to see creativity, not melee.