The guy ran out of arguments like... 5 pages ago, and is desperatly hanging on to 'but the writers said...' while they didn't ever say any of the things he claims. Fucking hilarious. It's like watching someone on a sinking ship saying 'Nah, the crew said we're fine, that's just the ship maneuvering.'
Can you guys take this shit into PMs and not clog up the thread with bullshit?
Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.
You not getting the point is becoming a reccuring theme in this thread, you know?
If Cap goes out and socializes, he is recognized. Him being recognized changes the entire timeline. Which cannot happen.
I don't need to invent anything to be right, I simply am right. You haven't provided a single consecutive piece of evidence to back anything you claim up. You entire theory is faulty and illogical. You've been struggling for several pages now to save face, because you picked a shitty hill to die on, and refuse to budge. I can respect your determination, but you're still wrong.
Cap living in an alternate timeline is the only explanation that doesn't leave any issues to be explained. It is the only theory that doesn't create a paradox.
- - - Updated - - -
I've told you a dozen times by now why he couldn't. Him being there creates scenarios that cannot come to pass, and thus, he cannot be there. Could he write a letter to SHIELD that Hydra has infiltrated them? No. He couldn't. Since it would alter the timeline, which is impossible. Therefor, he cannot be there.
They all followed their free will and made their own descisions. These descisions were the one. Not the other way around. You can of course keep sticking your fingers in your ears and pretend that it holds no water, butthat doesn't make you any less wrong.
The hight of his success was during and after WW2. And yes, it was bullshit in Winter Soldier aswell.
Here is the scenario. He walks into SHIELD Headquarters and tells... well, whomever was director at that time that he is Captain America, and that Hydra is still alive and kicking within SHIELD. This is a descision he can make. He's a human being, he can do whatever he pleases. There mere possibility of him doing it makes it impossible. This is exactly what Hulk tells us in the movie.
Everything he does can have unforseeable consequences.
The writer's reasoning makes no sense whatsoever. The time travel rules exist to stop the Avengers from going back and killing Thanos as a baby. Every other point follows up from there to keep the logic of the film consistent. If going back to kill Thanos as a baby creates a new universe, it also means that taking stones from a reality would also create a new universe.
Please tell me how in your paradigm, how removing a stone of godly power and killing someone are equitable, but Steve reshaping the last 40 years isn't.
Except that's exactly the reason why their answers differ.
Steve basically sits on all the knowledge he has and puts the lives of others at risk just to force the idea that Steve was there the whole time. Steve could've saved Tony's parents. He could have stopped Hydra. He could have done tons of great things all while not lifting a finger. Peggy could've done the work instead.
Nope. Didn't do that.
That isn't Captain America and I refuse to accept this. The Russos have it right.
All of that is extremely arbitrary and forced. Steve could’ve created a new timeline where he lived in a happier version of Earth but didn’t do it because he HAD to remain within the same universe. The logic eats itself. Steve went to the past to get his happy ending, and could have gotten it by creating a new universe. The fact that Steve stopped himself from interfering makes no sense at all. He doesn’t need to do it.
The Russo’s explanation makes far more sense.
It was already an assumption to assume that creating new timelines is conditional on how much it influences events. There’s no evidence to prove that. The only proof that it works this way is the word of mouth outside the film by the writers. Meanwhile, the idea that changes are static and aren’t conditional is a far safer assumption because otherwise it would be vague and convenient.
I know the writers really badly want our real Peggy to have her happy ending, which is why all of this happened, but they really fucked up here. The directors and writers not agreeing is a massive red flag. Good writing is concise and easy to follow.
Really what I’m saying is that the writers fucked up and aren’t willing to accept that their script has an obvious flaw in it. So, they created reasoning on the spot to justify their script choices.It makes sense, considering how much we’ve praised them for the Marvel scripts they’ve given us. They’ve grown arrogant.
There’s a reason why the Russos have spoken out against them and why Feige hasn’t. The latter wants to work with them again. The Russos are done with Marvel.
I’d rather not, because the opposite has no evidence for being true within the film.
Considering that the film’s highest level creators disagree and neither has more power than the other (The Russos contributed to writing the script), it makes in-film explanations all the more valuable.
Your whole argument is your own fan scenario to "explain" Cap's appearance as an old guy on the bench. Since the finished movie gives details on what happens when you travel to the past and (part of ) the finished movie is from the writers, they just flunked. At any rate, the director(s) is the God of a film. It's their version of the story. I'll take their version which is consistent with the time travel rules your writers wrote down, instead of your version, which is contradicting itself (like the writers do). You keep blabbing about "your" Endgame, we know we saw the original one.
/spit@Blizzard
That's why I don't like him being in the MCU Prime timeline, the idea that he went back and just ignored everything that would happen because it wouldn't matter just seems wrong to me.
That said, if Steve Rogers went back in time and became Jim Joebob and didn't make major alterations to history, then the rules of the film would mean no timeline split occurred. A minor fluctuation would result in overall the same story and not diverge, correct? So as long as Captain America discarded his ideals of helping people and stuff, and just let all the bad stuff happen, there's really no reason to assume it would create a divergent timeline and he could live out his peaceful life kissing his niece and having kids that weren't allowed to tell people who their dad was while Hydra killed untold numbers of innocents.
Also, for his identity, I know he was a "performer" in WW2, and then a special-forces type, but was any of that unmasked anyway? I don't recall the museum exhibit off hand, so maybe it's addressed in there. Either way a beard and longer hair would probably cloak him well enough with a fake identity and not hanging out with Peggy's work associates.
"I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."
Like just set aside the "time travel" plot. Obviously it makes no sense and is incoherent trash. That's whatever. Time travel plots are always gibberish.
Go to the start of the film. Captain Marvel has rescued Stark and Nebula, and after Stark and Steve have it out, Steve asks Stark if he has any info on Thanos's whereabouts, which Stark does not. But luckily Nebula chimes in with the hint that Thanos always told her he would head to "the Garden" after finishing his great work. Immediately thereafter, Rocket Raccoon reveals that the energy surge of the Infinity Gauntlet was detected on a remote world two days ago, and this must be the Garden world Nebula just mentioned.
Except none of this makes any sense. Rocket, or whatever information network he's plugged into, detected the Gauntlet being used. Nebula's information isn't relevant at all, there's no need to know the world the Gauntlet was used on is "the Garden". In fact if it occurred two days ago there is no explanation for why anyone was unclear about Thanos's location prior to the arrival of Stark and Nebula. Why did Rocket just now receive or present this information?
The easiest answer is that the scene is a combination of rewrites and reshoots of the same storyboard beat - "the heroes ascertain Thanos's location" - with no attempt made to have the lines of various characters cohere. Either Nebula's scene was shot first and Rocket's was added later so it didn't seem absurd that "the Garden" was enough info to locate Thanos, or Nebula's scene was shot after, perhaps as her role in the film became more central.
Probably. You're right that felt extremely weird hearing this kind of conversation:
Nebula: I have critical information, I know where he is
Everyone: listening
Nebula: He said he would hide in "The Garden".
Everyone: Okay ?
...
Rocket: We detected the same energy spike as when Thanos snapped on this planet
Everyone: ... does it look like a Garden ?
I don't even see how Nebula's information is relevant.
Then I guess the Russo brothers are "painfully naive"? They have a pretty good answer about why they ultimately went with Falcon over Cap. I mean, I'm not surprised that people, especially on these forums, will bitch and moan about the decision as the "SJW" move or whatever, but sometimes the grand conspiracy just isn't there.
Good on you with the anecdotes that people don't like Mackie. I counter your's with mine - everyone I talk to find Mackie to be amazing and made us like Falcon, who we pretty much hate in the comics.
Side Note: Damn, people, why the fuck are we still debating the time travel rules of this movie?