Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[zEmini]

Finally watched Endgame. Entertaining but FULL of time traveling plot holes. I guess they wrote the rules to just fit the plot for that scene.

Also, if everyone from the snap came back, what about the people who died on airplanes? Did they just fall to there deaths?

[Kyphael]

Hehe, now that it toppled Avatar from the No 1 worldwide box office, I guess it is time for everyone to come out and say how shitty it was

Haha, not really, I didn't rag on Avatar because it was the highest grossing film of all time, I bagged on it because it was grossly overrated. Certainly still an inferior fame to Endgame. It was all style and no substance.

Yeah....time travel can be such a lazy device - though I must say I liked it in Back to the Future and Terminator 1+2 (or StarTrek4) - but maybe because it was kind of novel back then.

Time travel was the single biggest detriment to Endgame, no doubt, IMO. It hurt its legacy more than whatever fan service benefit they feel they got by introducing it.

But what do I know? Look at the films that now rake in the cash. Just by the fact that every Disney CGI remake of good ole animated films has pulled in a billion dollars (or close to) is enough to just give up. So you actually need to be grateful that something even remotely "original" like Endgame pulls people into the cinemas.

While I criticize Endgame for its faults, in no way would I categorize it with inferior creatively-hollow popcorn films manufactured to please the masses like Transformers or Avatar. Endgame just isn't better than Infinity War, even though it made a lot more money, but it's still better than some of the MCU's biggest misses like Iron Man 2 and 3. Hell, I even think Endgame is better than the first Avengers, which to me is still one of the least enjoyable and most overrated Avengers. Loki being entertaining didn't compensate for the super boring Chitauri.

And yeah..time travel or not...I did not regret seeing the film and would still give it a 8/10....gonna buy the bluray, too.

Neither do I, it's still a very good movie and a fine ending to the 22 movie saga. I'd probably rate it 8/10 as well with Infinity War getting a 10/10, Age of Ultron getting 8/10 as well and Avengers 1 getting 7/10.

But with that, other than Guardians of the Galaxy 3 - the MCU as announced at Comicon in San Diego holds nothing that I want to watch.

I have a feeling Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness will set up a LOT of cool stuff for Phase 5, including potential glimpse into mutants or the Fantastic 4. I'm only interested in Shang-Chi because it'll do the Mandarin proper, hopefully. Thor: Love and Thunder I have almost no interest in even with the director of Ragnarok (which was awesome) coming back. I don't care for the character of Jane Foster, at all.

[StillMcfuu]

Hehe, now that it toppled Avatar from the No 1 worldwide box office, I guess it is time for everyone to come out and say how shitty it was

Yeah....time travel can be such a lazy device - though I must say I liked it in Back to the Future and Terminator 1+2 (or StarTrek4) - but maybe because it was kind of novel back then.

Ever since the latest redlettermedia http://redlettermedia.com/rich-and-m...ictions-video/ prediction video on Star Wars IX, I fear they will also pull a time travel there.

I liked how they dealt with Thanos right at the start (after hating that Deus ex Machina opening where Cpt Marvel out of the blue saves the other guys) but overall Infinity Wars was the much better better film for me.

But what do I know? Look at the films that now rake in the cash. Just by the fact that every Disney CGI remake of good ole animated films has pulled in a billion dollars (or close to) is enough to just give up. So you actually need to be grateful that something even remotely "original" like Endgame pulls people into the cinemas.

And yeah..time travel or not...I did not regret seeing the film and would still give it a 8/10....gonna buy the bluray, too.

But with that, other than Guardians of the Galaxy 3 - the MCU as announced at Comicon in San Diego holds nothing that I want to watch.

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Just search for the videos by some of the bigger content creator on movies on youtube like watchmojo or whatculture and you gonna have a great time with lists about all the plotholes and the problems with time travelling in general

Or it just came out on Bluray and I actually watched it. My opinion of the movie hasn't really gotten better. Good popcorn flick, little more, which wouldn't be so much of an issue if it didn't have prequels.

[StillMcfuu]

Sure..as far as I am concerned on the "Good popcorn flick, little more"...hell..John Wick certainly deserved to make more money than it did

John Wick doesn't have 22 movies and near 75 years of source material and fan base.

[Svifnymr]

I'd argue, when it comes to Marvel movies, we are best off assuming that what the characters tell us are the rules, are the rules. If this were Memento2 or Inception2, I'd be far less willing to take what a character tells us at face value.

I mean, they did reshoot the scene to make Ancient One clarify things for the audience, right? So I'm sure that's what they WANT you to assume is the real truth. I still don't trust her though!

I agree that taking it that seriously, as you say, isn't necessary, but I also disagree with saying conspiracy theories/headcanon is not as valid as what is in the movie(s). Sure they're possible, but arguing that they are what actually happened is problematic (like, for example, when people are still arguing about the logistics of how Cap's arc ended).

Honestly, I think there's just not much to talk about with Endgame. That's why the Avatar competition took up pages and pages. Infinity War left so many options for Endgame, lots to discuss. Endgame ended it all, not a lot to discuss. The 5 year jump still seems too much to me, wrapping up the Hulk off-scene, killing Iron Man off, ending Cap America, leaving no real path ahead to figure out what's going to be happening next.

So, lets figure out what Captain America would do! :-p

Also, the most amusing part of me debating the merits of the movie? I haven't seen Endgame yet. Maybe someday.

[Ophenia]

Interesting point. I think I'm with you on this. In a way, it's actually much easier to track the logic that literally any time travel causes additional realities to spawn then trying to figure how much/how little is required to cause them to come into being. And from a storytelling perspective, its a far more lucrative goldmine as well.

Yes, I'm pretty sure they'll take advantage of the 2010 "new" timeline for the Loki series, and the 2014 one for WandaVision (Thanos having disappeared from this timeline, Vision will be alive).

I was referring to his own movie, where he rewound time to repair a sanctum at the least, I don't think the timeloop would matter. Are there alternate timelines with Dormamu winning or is rewinding different than traveling or...

I don't think all these things are creating branching timelines. He does not really "travel" in time, he rewinds time smoothly (and probably locally) and I think this doesn't create any branches (same as Thanos rewinding time to get the Spirit Stone).

Regarding Dormammu, no clue. All the loop stuff happens somewhere where Time doesn't really exist so who knows.

[Skulltaker]

I mean, they did reshoot the scene to make Ancient One clarify things for the audience, right? So I'm sure that's what they WANT you to assume is the real truth. I still don't trust her though!

What she says doesn't contradict anything we've seen so far. All she does is visualize it for the audience. Bruce Banner gives us a quick description of how time travel works, and the Ancient One expands on that, showing us what kind of damage they could do.

The rules are pretty simple. You cannot go back to your past. You can go to the past, but that creates a new timeline. You can influence that timeline by changing events, like removing Thanos or the Infinity Stones, but that doesn't change your timeline.

[StillMcfuu]

True...but then again, Avatar didn't have that either....(still not comparable, I know)

I think someone sold their soul to the devil in the case of avatar... People saw that movie multiple times in the theatres, there was legitimate craze over it. But looking back now, with the exception of its theatre run, there is zero pop surrounding the movie. People don't talk about it, it isn't shown on TV, it's not referenced in popular culture.

If I found out that some random billionaire was just dumping money on tickets to artificially inflate this movies box office take, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Ophenia]

I think someone sold their soul to the devil in the case of avatar... People saw that movie multiple times in the theatres, there was legitimate craze over it. But looking back now, with the exception of its theatre run, there is zero pop surrounding the movie. People don't talk about it, it isn't shown on TV, it's not referenced in popular culture.

On the other hand, you don't need all that to define a great movie. I don't really care about Avatar, I enjoyed it and still enjoy watching it once in a while, but there isn't any craze or pop around Interstellar, Shawshank Redemption or Inception either

[StillMcfuu]

On the other hand, you don't need all that to define a great movie. I don't really care about Avatar, I enjoyed it and still enjoy watching it once in a while, but there isn't any craze or pop around Interstellar, Shawshank Redemption or Inception either

I'd disagree about shawshank and inception. Both have notable scenes, both are often quoted by people in casual conversation. Interstellar remains to be seen, at least it has memes about it.

Avatar just sits there, and most people when asked to define avatar just say it's FernGully, but not as good.

Avatar just doesn't seem memorable in any way.

[Karlz0rz]

I finally got around to watching it, and it was an overall pretty good movie.
But man, that scene where Spiderman drops the glove, and suddenly the WHOLE female cast just shows up to help him made me cringe sooo fucking hard.
We get it, female empowerment, you don't need no man, 70 cents to one dollar.
Could you at least make it a little plausible? How about instead of EVERYONE being there, just two female cast shows up?
Djesus :P.

[Jotaux]

I finally got around to watching it, and it was an overall pretty good movie.
But man, that scene where Spiderman drops the glove, and suddenly the WHOLE female cast just shows up to help him made me cringe sooo fucking hard.
We get it, female empowerment, you don't need no man, 70 cents to one dollar.
Could you at least make it a little plausible? How about instead of EVERYONE being there, just two female cast shows up?
Djesus :P.

It's pretty messed up it takes like 10 women to do what 1 or 2 of the male heroes could do. Pretty sexist if you ask me.

(this post is a joke, please don't yell at me)

[Svifnymr]

[Ophenia]

I finally got around to watching it, and it was an overall pretty good movie.
But man, that scene where Spiderman drops the glove, and suddenly the WHOLE female cast just shows up to help him made me cringe sooo fucking hard.
We get it, female empowerment, you don't need no man, 70 cents to one dollar.
Could you at least make it a little plausible? How about instead of EVERYONE being there, just two female cast shows up?
Djesus :P.

The cringiest part is when The Wasp is here though. Like, she's trying to help Scott to fix the Quantum tunnel in the van, then "wait one minute we have a l33t scene with the girlz, I'll be back". Sorry what ?

Plus, Captain Marvel and Wanda arriving like "we're gonna save the situation", ok, plausible. But Mantis ? Shuri ? That's as stupid as an all-men scene where Rhodey without Warmachine's armor would be like "let's rock this !".

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

The cringiest part is when The Wasp is here though. Like, she's trying to help Scott to fix the Quantum tunnel in the van, then "wait one minute we have a l33t scene with the girlz, I'll be back". Sorry what ?

Plus, Captain Marvel and Wanda arriving like "we're gonna save the situation", ok, plausible. But Mantis ? Shuri ? That's as stupid as an all-men scene where Rhodey without Warmachine's armor would be like "let's rock this !".

You're right that's likely the cringiest part of the movie but lets not forget the director wrote himself into the movie, as a gay man. That was worse than the ant-man/hulk picture scene.

[tyrlaan]

I think someone sold their soul to the devil in the case of avatar... People saw that movie multiple times in the theatres, there was legitimate craze over it. But looking back now, with the exception of its theatre run, there is zero pop surrounding the movie. People don't talk about it, it isn't shown on TV, it's not referenced in popular culture.

If I found out that some random billionaire was just dumping money on tickets to artificially inflate this movies box office take, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I don't think it's that tough to demystify - as far as I recall it was the first film to really do 3D right. Seeing in the theater was a spectacle to behold, tropey storyline and unobtanium be damned.

Hmm..yeah..I keep wondering if Avatar 2 will be just a big dud at the box office.....for the non-existing impact of Avatar on pop culture.

Currently there are indeed almost no films in the 25 internationally top grossing movies that aren't sequels or based on books / comics. Titanic would be one, but it is still not entirely original. Frozen is one. Minions another. (then again, they were in Despicable me)

You really have to go to the list adjusted for inflation or really far back in time to find films from unique ideas (which ofc also had influences from films before them). I miss the 70s, 80s and 90s.....

It'll probably do okay because people will just remember that Avatar did SO GOOD in the box office, but unless it's visually groundbreaking in some new way, I doubt it will come close to reproducing the success of the first one.

[RobertoCarlos]

Rewatching the movie the all female scene didnt stick out as much as the fact they made Thanos and his ship fly through the time machine that was about 1 meter from the ground because of all the bullshit time rules and they couldnt port them there one by one because they didnt have Mr Starks magical time GPS's.

And Black Panther and his female co-leads being the first to walk through the portal. It made 0 sense and kind of ruins the moment for me because it was purely PC nonsense because BP made over a billion dollars. Where as at least in the all female scene you get a cute little "WE'rE StRonNG" and was good for a laugh.

[Ausr]

Rewatching the movie the all female scene didnt stick out as much as the fact they made Thanos and his ship fly through the time machine that was about 1 meter from the ground because of all the bullshit time rules and they couldnt port them there one by one because they didnt have Mr Starks magical time GPS's.

And Black Panther and his female co-leads being the first to walk through the portal. It made 0 sense and kind of ruins the moment for me because it was purely PC nonsense because BP made over a billion dollars. Where as at least in the all female scene you get a cute little "WE'rE StRonNG" and was good for a laugh.

Evil Nebula had the GPS.

He was leading the army of Wakanda. Of course he and his group of female bodyguards are going to be first through the portal. How the hell was it PC?

[eschatological]

Evil Nebula had the GPS.

He was leading the army of Wakanda. Of course he and his group of female bodyguards are going to be first through the portal. How the hell was it PC?

I think he means that his portal was the first one open, and he and his entourage came out first.

Of course, cinematically speaking, someone has to come out first. All of them coming out of 100s of portals at the same time would be visually jarring and overwhelming.

So really, you're just complaining that the last superhero to have a standalone movie (besides Captain Marvel who shows up later in the scene and wasn't dusted) came out first because of........well, a perceived agenda.

[Ausr]

I think he means that his portal was the first one open, and he and his entourage came out first.

Of course, cinematically speaking, someone has to come out first. All of them coming out of 100s of portals at the same time would be visually jarring and overwhelming.

So really, you're just complaining that the last superhero to have a standalone movie (besides Captain Marvel who shows up later in the scene and wasn't dusted) came out first because of........well, a perceived agenda.

Yeah, out of any complaints to read about... that one is just odd to even read. Don't know what the poster thought of the Captain Marvel movie but I have a feeling it he probably has the same thoughts there.