My take on rework for Balance Druid.

[huth]

Everything is probably overpowered, which is why I wrote The damage, cooldowns and duration on stuff should not be final by me. It can and should be changed.

Which is why you should avoid assigning any values to them in the first place.

[exochaft]

If anything, I wish Force of Nature was baseline with whatever adjustments necessary to their damage/AsP generation to make it work as such. It's a pretty unique utility, and the tanks I run with for high M+ keys don't want me running with any other talent in that row due to how good it is (despite me wanting to run Nature's Balance or WoE instead).

[bonewax]

Don't let it get you down. I appreciate that there are at least people attempting to compile a rework for balance. I actually rerolled because druids felt so mediocre in every aspect :/

go play an ele sham and get back to me about mediocre

[Deleted]

I'd give anything for them to revert it back to any type of previous eclipse gameplay (or some new based on eclipse theme). I think dots spreading in an AOE + procs based on dots wolk be difficult to balance.

[Alcsaar]

go play an ele sham and get back to me about mediocre

I did, for 2 expansions. I chose not to play it this xpac because it is ALWAYS shit at the start.

[simonlvschal]

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624372382

Hello. I am on and off a youtube creator, officer in my guild and a active member of the Dreamgrove Discord (Euroguy), I've made some videos on the Balance Druid and been doing guides on it. Not much from BFA however.

Anyway! I love this spec, and I know there is a lot of problems with many other classes at the moment, but I want to speak for the Balance Druid with my opinions.

Astral Power
Even though Astral Power works, it's not a fun to have. It's simply another "build and spend" mechanic to the spec which seems to be a simple "We dont know what to do" thing for Blizzard to give classes. Many, many have this also known as a rage mechanic. I was happier playing with the old Eclipse but there were a lot of people that didn't enjoy it, and I respect that.
Anyway, I want to remove the Astral Power mechanic for reasons to make the spec feel more reactive by giving it more procs.

The only reason Astral Power is in the game is because of Starsurge and Starfall.
Therefor there is no reason to change Solar Wrath or Lunar Strike, as they both gets cyclone between each other by Eclipse, you still want to use Lunar Strike on cleave, Solar Wrath on single target but still using a Lunar Empowerment on single target etc.

So with the removal of Astral Power, we can finally play around with the specs design. With is my next topic.
Everything below is the changes giving to the Balance Druid with Astral Power going away.


Base Moonkin changes

Moonfire and Sunfire
Both very iconic for the Balance Druid and should both stay. BUT! Right now, our dots feel very boring to press and they don't do anything for us more than some damage overtime.
Shooting Stars new passive ability:
You have a 30% chance when you deal critical periodic damage with your Moonfire or Sunfire to instantly reset the cooldown of your Starsurge. This chance is reduced against multiple targets.

Starsurge
12 second cooldown, instant. Nothing else changed.

Starfall
The "place down Starfall a.k.a Blizzard" isn't fun and not unique in anyway. Starfall has lost a lot of personality over the years. With recent removal of Stellar Empowerment, Starfall is nowadays boring and doesn't feel great to press anymore.

New Starfall
Well.. Old Starfall basically but different. Tooltip reads:
Calls down waves of falling stars to all targets within 40 yards of the caster that you're in combat with, dealing [9 * (13.8% of Spell power)] over 10 sec.
Starfall only hits targets affected by Moonfire or Sunfire.
Starfall has a 30 second cooldown. (Cooldown Should Be Debatable!)

This will give us back the unique Starfall but also giving the old glyphs "Guided Stars" baseline. Reason? People should know that dots are important part of the Balance Druid, and the only way to actually use your Starfall is if you have dots on targets.

Talents
Our talents are not very influential, my current Balance Druid only does -15.0 less damage with no talents at all being used. From 13,220 dps to 11,233 while a Frost Mage for example is the different larger with -28% dps loss without any talents.

Level 15
Nature's Balance removed.
Force of Nature now baseline (Does not give Astral Power, deals less damage, mostly used for the aoe taunt, a utility.)
Warrior of Elune reworked.

New in replacement of Nature's Balance.
Hurricane
Channeled
A Solar spell that creates a violent storm in the target area causing (x% of Spell power) Nature damage to enemies every 1 sec and reduces the cooldown of Starfall by 1 sec for each enemy hit. Lasts 10 sec.

New in replacement of Force of Nature:
Wild Mushroom
Grow a magical mushroom with 5 health at the target location that lasts 20 sec.

Activating the ability again will allow the Wild Mushrooms to explode, dealing (x% of Spell power) to all targets.

Warrior of Elune
Your next 3 Lunar Strikes are instant cast and deals 40% additional damage.

Level 30: No rework.

New level 45:.
All removed - A disgusting tree for Druids, we are druids. We should be able to shapeshift with benefits anytime. I want to rework the Affinity row to be more impactful. We should already have Ironfur, Rejuv etc baseline but at costs.

The new row is called "Heart of the Wild" - This is because of an old talent. But instead of being just one talent it will be in row of level 45.

Heart of the Wild
When activated, increases all healing done and dramatically improves the Druid's ability to perform roles outside of their normal specialization for 30 sec. Grants the following benefits based on current specialization.

New Talent: Guardian Affinity
While in Bear Form, Agility, and armor bonuses increased, chance to be hit by melee critical strikes reduced.

New Talent: Feral Affinity
While in Cat Form, Agility and melee critical strikes increased.

New Talent: Restoration Affinity
Mana cost of all healing spells reduced by 100%. May also cast Rejuvenation while shapeshifted.

All these talents are active to press, while using for example Feral Affinity, you will press the "Heart of The Wild" to active the bonuses.

Level 60 talents:
Nothing changed.

Level 75
Starlord, nothing changed.
Incarnation: Chosen of Elune, nothing changed.
Soul of the Forest, slightly reworked.

New Soul of the Forest:
Does the same but reduces the cooldown of Starfall by 10 seconds.

Level 90
Stellar Drift, reworked.
Twin Moons, removed.
Stellar Flare, reworked.

New Stellar Drift:
Starfall can now get it's cooldown reset by Shooting Stars.

New in replacement of Twin Moons:
Astral Storm:
Replaces Starfall.
Calls down waves of Astral Storm to all targets within 40 yards of the caster that you're in combat with, dealing [9 * (13.8% of Spell power)] over 10 sec. And burns all targets for additional x% of Spell Power after it's duration for 5 seconds.
Astral Storm only hits targets affected by Moonfire or Sunfire.

New Stellar Flare:
Stellar Flare now replaces Moonfire and Sunfire to one dot. It spreads to nearby targets like Sunfire, but saves globals on pressing Moonfire on many targets.

Level 100:
Shooting Stars Removed.
Fury of Elune reworked to not generate Astral Power, damage buffed.
New Moon Reworked.

New in replacement of Shooting Stars:
Ancient Guardian:
Replaces Force of Nature.
Summons a powerful Ancient to aid you in battle, 3 minute cooldown. Lasts 30 seconds.
You can choose between three ancient aspects.

Ancient of the Tree: Heals you and nearby allies when the Ancient attacks for 20 seconds.

Ancient of the Protector: Taunt all nearby enemies and decreases damage taken by you and players within 10 yards after taunts being used for 20 seconds. (Taunt lasts 10 seconds)

Ancient of Wonders: Increases spell power to you and nearby players within 10 yards for 20 seconds.

This talent seems fun in my head. It will offer utility but benefit for you and the team. Do I need to help the healer with heals? "But I want the damage increase instead of taunting!!" Well.. Utility, decide what's best for the group.

New Moon:
Has the same cooldown and three charges but with less damage, but each charge grants a benefit.
New Moon grants you spell power for 10 seconds.
Half Moon grants you haste for 10 seconds.
Full Moon grants you spell power and haste for 10 seconds.

I'm not a developer, maybe I'm out of my mind my putting time to make this thread. But I love this spec and it's fantasy, and these are some changes I have been thinking about to make the Balance Druid more unique in this game.
Most of the new baseline changes will allow players to think about their dots in particular since it should be a rewarding and do something more than just damage over time.

Thank you so much for reading, if I made any big mistake or anything please give feedback and changes you think are good!
I hope you enjoyed my post so far.

/Euroguy



OBS! The damage, cooldowns and duration on stuff should not be final by me. It can and should be changed.

so because u suck at the current balance it should be remade. that wouldnt work. Balance is fine atm and so is many other classes. once again its not the class that is bad or good. its the player. hence why no one chooses warrior cause they are ignorant and naive and scared of being different.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

The only thing I like is the suggested change to Starfall. The rest is way overcomplicated.

[naeblis495]

so just a revert to god awful eclipse gameplay where procs and rng ruled your dps ? no thank you , i'm fine being in control of my dps even if some find it "boring"

[Tyze]

so because u suck at the current balance it should be remade. that wouldnt work. Balance is fine atm and so is many other classes. once again its not the class that is bad or good. its the player. hence why no one chooses warrior cause they are ignorant and naive and scared of being different.

Well you obvious didn't understand my point

[Kraineth]

Why are we suggesting a rework for a spec that has gotten reworks in every expansion ever, and is now in a good place design wise?

[Crysake]

there's no need to rework it

[Illusions]

I don't think we need a complete rework, and if we lose Astral Power, what resource are we actually dealing with? No resources? Become mana-dependent? Or just cast freely forever like we did with spenders already, only with hard-set CDs like Starsurge and CD reductions?

Some of the ideas seem quite fun and interesting, and also encompass what a DRUID should be. Force of Nature should be baseline just because it's about summoning the Nature to your aid, and similarly I like the Ancient summoning as well. As if we're a Demonology Warlock, but with more interesting summons and yet, not heavily reliant on summons as the Ancients are a talent. However, lore-wise that's a big questionable talent, the tree Ancients aren't just summoned willy-nilly, but let's suppose for now we can. Aside from renamings (Ancient of the Tree -> Tree of Life or Ancient of Wonders, Ancient of the Protector -> Ancient of War, Ancient of Wonders can stay or become Ancient of Wind). I personally love the idea, but obviously it'd have to be balanced.

I also like the Heart of the Wild thing. It absolutely has to be a cooldown, though, and the hybrid stuff to be weakened outside of it. Hybrids are very strong in PvP with their off-healing, this would be super OP. And you oftentimes don't need all the kits already in your normal rotation in PvE, while a CD lasting for a longer duration could save some wipes anyway.

I love seeing Wild Mushroom back. Getting many mushrooms and then exploding them could give a nice burst of AoE damage. However, I'm not sold on both Starfall changes and the addition to Hurricane and Astral Storm. First, they're bloating and essentially do the same thing, and exist on different tiers! I feel like they also lose the identity of different tiers already. Perhaps move Fury of Elune away from final tier and replace it with whatever, and instead add Fury of Elune to same tier as Hurricane and Astral Storm, and rework each to have their own spin on AoE. Starfall, Hurricane, and Astral Storm ONLY affecting targets affected by DoTs also is a good idea, and would help solve accidental pulling in M+ imo, and you can still get full value already with one press of Sunfire anyway, as it'd hit most targets you want to damage anyway.

I also like New Moon idea. The whole tier could be some sort of empowerment tier, where Ancients are less powerful for you individually, but have raid utility. New Moon has a bigger impact for you and none for the raid (could be a case of only one being used in raids, another in solo content/m+ etc tho, which might be a problem?). And something new instead of Fury of Elune, perhaps like a mix between the two.

I think regarding procs, we're already alright. Perhaps if Astral Power is removed, have the empowerment proc chance be increased, and maybe the final tier can have something to do with the current empowerments of SW and LS, perhaps add a small party buff on each. Like eLS giving spell power, eSW giving haste etc idk. It'd last for a short amount of time, a few seconds at most, but that's better than nothing, no?

One thing I'd also love seeing return is Insect Swarm. It's such a thematic ability, and it could be some sort of DoT that spreads on contact, or has a chance to spread at least, like an infestation. Perhaps through Wild Mushroom burst. It'd have to be somewhat different from Sunfire/Moonfire to actually exist, but it was just an already different-looking ability from our current DoTs, making it more different already!

Overall, I think losing Astral Power may not be the best idea and I don't want to see old Eclipse bar coming back either. Furthermore, the Balance spec now is fine already, perhaps too boring at times or too simplistic, and some ideas here can individually be taken at the very least. Before Balance would get a rework (as we already got a small one!), I'd like to see a rework for Feral...

[Deleted]

Only thing I want to see is Sunfire replaced with Insect Swarm, and make it a dot that spreads to other targets within 8 yards. I think Unholy DK's have something similar.

i just really miss Insect Swarm

[B a B y D o L L]

While some of this is okay, there's also a lot of this that I don't like.

I don't think Boomys need some massive rework, I think we just need some number changes, a mastery buff/change, or some new passives. A passive like "Starfall causes all dots to reapply and crit on first tic" or SUBSTANTIALLY buffing the damage increase effect Mastery gives to our Astral Power abilities....would be a huge help!! Because in BFA, even with a crap ton of Mastery, our Astral Power abilities STILL had to be buffed, and after said buff they still don't feel that strong. And Starfall IS STILL A TOTAL JOKE in comparison to Eye Beam, Implosion, and Frozen Orb! When you look at a boomys kit, you'd think we'd be AOE gods, but we get out-AOE'd in SO MANY circumstances........the only time I notice my AOE owning the day, is on very long sustained AOE pulls, then I can usually just pass others in AOE damage output, however on the AVERAGE/Normal AOE pulls, our AOE is a joke.

[Blaise321]

You missed the most important part. Bring back insect swarm.

[parasight]

lolwut at this thread.

Ok, so what is it? "I love this spec" is the first thing you say, followed by "this spec isn't fun". Pick one.

You list a bunch of intricate changes. You drastically change numbers, without any type of background in game development, or testing. Clearly. You offer a bunch of alterations but then ridiculously claim that the numbers (damage, cooldowns, and durations) should be fine tuned by someone else.

It's like you're making a ton of drastic changes just so you have a reason to type. There's no background of experience, no collection of data, no playtesting in any sense. I'm going to go out on a limb (not really) by saying you probably don't play every spec in the game, haven't brainstormed ideas with people with experience, and have no realistic, holistic view of how these changes would affect the balance of all classes/specs as a whole.

Again, you state these changes are all based on what is 'fun'. What a bunch of nonsensical conjecture. Please stop posting shitty ideas that haven't been tested and are completely based on subjective views.

I see a lot of harsh and drastic suggestions tempered by "it's just my opinion" and "someone else should fine-tune the numbers". Good job covering your ass for not having to explain anything and deflecting criticisms with weak arguments.

Maybe crayons would be a better outlet for your 'creativity'.


Please leave the balance spec alone. I'd much rather have a company with a ton of experienced theorycrafters/developers and people whose job it is to make the game successful, who have actually crunched numbers over the course of a decade balance the numbers, not some guy that says "this isn't fun, in my opinion."

[Illusions]

lolwut at this thread.

Ok, so what is it? "I love this spec" is the first thing you say, followed by "this spec isn't fun". Pick one.

You list a bunch of intricate changes. You drastically change numbers, without any type of background in game development, or testing. Clearly. You offer a bunch of alterations but then ridiculously claim that the numbers (damage, cooldowns, and durations) should be fine tuned by someone else.

It's like you're making a ton of drastic changes just so you have a reason to type. There's no background of experience, no collection of data, no playtesting in any sense. I'm going to go out on a limb (not really) by saying you probably don't play every spec in the game, haven't brainstormed ideas with people with experience, and have no realistic, holistic view of how these changes would affect the balance of all classes/specs as a whole.

Again, you state these changes are all based on what is 'fun'. What a bunch of nonsensical conjecture. Please stop posting shitty ideas that haven't been tested and are completely based on subjective views.

I see a lot of harsh and drastic suggestions tempered by "it's just my opinion" and "someone else should fine-tune the numbers". Good job covering your ass for not having to explain anything and deflecting criticisms with weak arguments.

Maybe crayons would be a better outlet for your 'creativity'.


Please leave the balance spec alone. I'd much rather have a company with a ton of experienced theorycrafters/developers and people whose job it is to make the game successful, who have actually crunched numbers over the course of a decade balance the numbers, not some guy that says "this isn't fun, in my opinion."

Why the heck are you so salty? Those spec rework threads are usually only for fun hypotheses, or just asking the question 'hey wouldn't this be cool' from others to create a discussion.

IMO he didn't really change numbers, I think he just copied the text (that included numbers) and changed the string to fit his idea. The cooldowns were just random numbers, but to give an idea of roughly how long it'd be in his idea.

You sound like some flunked developer who was denied from a job and now rages at suggestion threads. You don't have to be a lead dev to imagine how a spec should work. Furthermore, you can love the spec and change it without changing the theme. Balance Druid is a spec revolving around working with Nature to bring people down. That's the theme, you build up from it.

If the team of experienced theorycrafters/devs made a successful spec, there wouldn't be players throwing their ideas around to make the spec better. And even then, you still need input from both sides to make the spec the best it could be.

[parasight]

More conjecture and drivel.

Not salty, nowhere near being some flunked developer.

You know, people often say that no opinions are wrong because they're just opinions. Well, that's nonsense. There are a ton of opinions, in any given topic, that are deeply rooted in a total lack of knowledge and/or experience. Ridiculous suggestions by people who don't understand or have any kind of practical critique skills (like this thread) festers the idea that people should blather on about their ideas and give others the sense that they should too. It's a mind boggling phenomenon.

I'm sorry if you think my post(s) are salty. Try to not get upset when you engage in forum pvp.

[huth]

If the team of experienced theorycrafters/devs made a successful spec, there wouldn't be players throwing their ideas around to make the spec better. And even then, you still need input from both sides to make the spec the best it could be.

People complain about everything. All the time. If there are no real issues, you get grass-is-greener and percieved issues.

The problem with these armchair developers coming up with their grand concepts is precisely that they don't have the same limitations the real developers have to deal with. It's easy to come up with some grand ideas when you don't actually have to worry about making them work or how they impact the game as a whole.

[Argenon]

A litte late to the party, but wanted to chime in as well.

Astral Power
Even though Astral Power works, it's not a fun to have. It's simply another "build and spend" mechanic to the spec which seems to be a simple "We dont know what to do" thing for Blizzard to give classes. Many, many have this also known as a rage mechanic. I was happier playing with the old Eclipse but there were a lot of people that didn't enjoy it, and I respect that.
Anyway, I want to remove the Astral Power mechanic for reasons to make the spec feel more reactive by giving it more procs.

First, fun is really subjective. Some people may find “fun” in builder/spender, others in the original eclipse, others in the metronome, others in priority rotations, and so on. I personally prefer this builder/spender to the metronome eclipse, though I did enjoy the wrath iteration of the eclipse bar. I mentioned this somewhere during the beta, but while "fun" is subjective "monotony" is not. If there is no deviation from a set pattern then gameplay becomes monotonous. I think this is the complaint that several had about Legion and early BfA beta, that the rotation was predictable. I think BfA has made some changes to help this, first I really enjoy the eclipse mechanic, it adds some unpredictablility to our rotation. Streaking Stars, Dawning Sun, and Sunblaze all alter the rotation (slightly more on these at the end); these are steps in the right direction.

The only reason Astral Power is in the game is because of Starsurge and Starfall.

This I agree with, I wish the spenders were more dynamic and not just one choice for ST and one for AoE. I have no idea how to do this, but I am sure one of our respected theory-crafters has an idea that's worthwhile.

Moonfire and Sunfire
Both very iconic for the Balance Druid and should both stay. BUT! Right now, our dots feel very boring to press and they don't do anything for us more than some damage overtime.
Shooting Stars new passive ability:
You have a 30% chance when you deal critical periodic damage with your Moonfire or Sunfire to instantly reset the cooldown of your Starsurge. This chance is reduced against multiple targets.

Starsurge
12 second cooldown, instant. Nothing else changed.

As many people have said, the CD for Starsurge is not good design, it removes the potential for building and saving for specific burst. Plus having our primary ST damage on a timer feels very clunky to me.

Starfall
The "place down Starfall a.k.a Blizzard" isn't fun and not unique in anyway. Starfall has lost a lot of personality over the years. With recent removal of Stellar Empowerment, Starfall is nowadays boring and doesn't feel great to press anymore.

New Starfall
Well.. Old Starfall basically but different. Tooltip reads:
Calls down waves of falling stars to all targets within 40 yards of the caster that you're in combat with, dealing [9 * (13.8% of Spell power)] over 10 sec.
Starfall only hits targets affected by Moonfire or Sunfire.
Starfall has a 30 second cooldown. (Cooldown Should Be Debatable!)
Balance Druid, and the only way to actually use your Starfall is if you have dots on targets.

While I do miss the pull everything in 40 yard radius of Starfall, the targeting circle is much more practical, being able to place it exactly where you want it and where it is needed can be very helpful and manageable. There is probably a better way to make our dots more impactful, this is not it.

Hurricane
Channeled
A Solar spell that creates a violent storm in the target area causing (x% of Spell power) Nature damage to enemies every 1 sec and reduces the cooldown of Starfall by 1 sec for each enemy hit. Lasts 10 sec.

Personally, I never want to go back to channeled AoE spells.

I do miss some of these elements from previous XPacs like you, but I also really like this current iteration. IMO, it is an improvement on the Legion system, which was my favorite moonkin system since WotLK.

I think the practical improvements to BFA Moonkin are as simple as making our interesting and rotation changing azurite traits competitive and not lackluster. I think Streaking Stars had the right idea, it was just overpowered, though now I think it is underpowered. I would like to see High Noon, Power of the Moon, Dawning Sun, and Sunblaze tweaked and brought into line with other top performing traits; thus, giving options and variety to an already solid spec atm.