"Only raids and dungeons are fun"

[Thelyron]

Out of all the possible complains about bfa, this is the one i understand the least. It's always been this way. It's nothing new. Leveling is fun once, maybe twice, and then you step into the treadmill. You do your dailies, you run a couple of dungeons, you do your raid, and then you either do the same on another character, or you do something else. It's literally always been this way. For long stretches of the game, there wasn't even anything else to do. Now there are other things to do, but even if they all suck, that still leaves you with the things that were fun for the last 14 years: dungeons and raids.

[clevin]

Out of all the possible complains about bfa, this is the one i understand the least. It's always been this way. It's nothing new. Leveling is fun once, maybe twice, and then you step into the treadmill. You do your dailies, you run a couple of dungeons, you do your raid, and then you either do the same on another character, or you do something else. It's literally always been this way. For long stretches of the game, there wasn't even anything else to do. Now there are other things to do, but even if they all suck, that still leaves you with the things that were fun for the last 14 years: dungeons and raids.

Yep. It's one of the things that kind of mystifies me about the BfA content complaints. I get the class design complaints but the content is basically the same as it always has been. The warfront is kind of boring and so are expeditions so the NEW content types are bad/uninspiring but you still have 5 mans and raids. which is what you've always had for group content along with PVP.

[Deleted]

Except raids were exclusive and there was only one difficulty
Except there was no transmog and people looked up to having a full raid tier set of the current tier
Except raid gear made you overpowered in pvp
...

This may not seem like much but its day and night differences.

[muto]

Except raids were exclusive and there was only one difficulty
Except there was no transmog and people looked up to having a full raid tier set of the current tier
Except raid gear made you overpowered in pvp
...

This may not seem like much but its day and night differences.

Yeah and 2 of those 3 options are positive changes to the game. PVE tier sets and legendary's working in Arena's was really dumb. Shadowmourne in Arena didn't even require skill. And Shadow Priests sitting in the back of Demolishers in Strand, dotting the entire battlefield.

[Powerogue]

I think it's more that people were looking forward to spending more time not doing raids and dungeons, only to find themselves still mostly doing them.

But to the credit/detriment of this expansion, I've had one character doing rep grinding, warfronts, and islands, and the other just focused on the usual methods of gearing, and they've been neck and neck progress wise since the expansion started.

[Niwes]

the joke is: blizz did great things in this xpac. and do not use them.

warfronts and also island exps could be a really good addition, if

- they would be more challenging and less grindy
- they give meaningful rewards and have a clear position in game

but thats the typical blizzard/wow way to make the bigs things right (new systems, good art, ideas and design) and loose all with the small but important things (scaling, behaviour, reward structure). was the same with scenarios in MoP and a lot of other stuff over time in wow.

so, nothing new here.

[Broken Fox]

Yeah, the opposite is true for me in BFA. A few of the dungeons were ok but quickly got stale. My static is dead so I did one pass of the raid on LFR and promptly forgot about it. The most fun I've had is just running around the zones (Drustvar and Tiragarde Sound especially) pvping and exploring.

[kamuimac]

I think it's more that people were looking forward to spending more time not doing raids and dungeons, only to find themselves still mostly doing them.

But to the credit/detriment of this expansion, I've had one character doing rep grinding, warfronts, and islands, and the other just focused on the usual methods of gearing, and they've been neck and neck progress wise since the expansion started.

then my question is WHY ? why were they expecting this is wow since its beggining was always only about dungeons and raids

the world content was always in each expansion minimal and crappy so why were they expecting anything different ?

are you saying that all those people who whine do it because of their own unresonable expectations ?

- - - Updated - - -

the joke is: blizz did great things in this xpac. and do not use them.

warfronts and also island exps could be a really good addition, if

- they would be more challenging and less grindy
- they give meaningful rewards and have a clear position in game

but thats the typical blizzard/wow way to make the bigs things right (new systems, good art, ideas and design) and loose all with the small but important things (scaling, behaviour, reward structure). was the same with scenarios in MoP and a lot of other stuff over time in wow.

so, nothing new here.

and why would you want them more chalenging ? to have 1 more mode where you put unresonably high requirmeents to make them piss easy anyway but to exclude playerbase from doin it ?

they do offer great rewards - its your fault that you dont thing that anything but gear matters.

[Alphatorg]

the joke is: blizz did great things in this xpac. and do not use them.

warfronts and also island exps could be a really good addition, if

- they would be more challenging and less grindy
- they give meaningful rewards and have a clear position in game

but thats the typical blizzard/wow way to make the bigs things right (new systems, good art, ideas and design) and loose all with the small but important things (scaling, behaviour, reward structure). was the same with scenarios in MoP and a lot of other stuff over time in wow.

so, nothing new here.

If you want challenging PVE content there is M+ and a raid, IE and WF were probably introduced for the casuals who refuse to be social or do anything remotely challenging, it's hard - maybe even impossible - for Blizzard to make interesting repeatable content, when the most important question is: "could a monkey complete this?".

[Thelyron]

Except raids were exclusive and there was only one difficulty
Except there was no transmog and people looked up to having a full raid tier set of the current tier
Except raid gear made you overpowered in pvp
...

This may not seem like much but its day and night differences.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the point of the thread.

[Naked Snake]

Every expansion has pretty much been the same. You get new zones, you level through them, you hit max level, you do dungeons, you gear up, you do raids, and then you wait for your IDs to reset. Here and there, there have been varying degrees of "stuff to do outside of raids". Cataclysm and WoD had very little. MoP, Legion and BFA have a lot. Now and then you get new good features, or bad features. In my opinion warfronts are boring from a gameplay perspective, the actual warfront battle that is, but interesting in terms of lore and world design. It's cool to fly around in a revamped Arathi and kill rares every now and then. Arathi was one of the zones pretty much left untouched by the Cataclysm. Island expedtions are kinda ok, but I'm sure they'll make improvements to it. All in all this seems like a pretty good expansion with some of the usual problems.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the point of the thread.

That poster constantly posts things that have nothing to do with the topic. It's best to ignore him until he stops derailing.

[Beastiel]

Except raids were exclusive and there was only one difficulty
Except there was no transmog and people looked up to having a full raid tier set of the current tier
Except raid gear made you overpowered in pvp
...

This may not seem like much but its day and night differences.

Are you clinically retarded?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

and why would you want them more chalenging ? to have 1 more mode where you put unresonably high requirmeents to make them piss easy anyway but to exclude playerbase from doin it ?

they do offer great rewards - its your fault that you dont thing that anything but gear matters.

Why wouldn't you want them to be challenging? One of the problems with Warfronts is it's too easy.

[BiggestNoob]

Chromie was fun. Mage tower was fun. Hell, even endless TG was fun. Blizzard makes very little content like this, and only consistently makes good dungeon/raid content (though Uldir is below average, I'd take HM any day over this). There is a *lot* of different content that people enjoy that Blizzard could make and focus on, but every expansion has most of the same things, which isn't this unique stuff, and then dungeons/raids. There's nothing to do via professions. There's nothing to achieve, really, outside of dungeons/raids. Reps? World quests?

Legion was the same way. Blizzard doesn't produce much content, and that's the problem. Leveling isn't fun because you do it more than once, in particular because of WQs. WQs aren't fun because you've done it all before and nothing about it is memorable. It's just leveling content that's repeatable. They could instead make new content instead of this failed WQ system. I remember in WoD, people loved leveling alts because they weren't repeating those quests hundreds of times on their main, or forced to spend time on their main. Hell, just being able to actually play alts was content, but Blizzard took that away.

[msdos]

The raid is fun, I wouldn't call these BFA dungeons fun. Every dungeon in here is basically Seat of the Triumviraate on crack. Also the dungeons are on rails. There is no more Kara where you can just straight up skip parts, there is no more Eye where it's just a wide open zone basically and you choose where to go. There is no more parity, it's all just trash trash trash, smash all the trash together as close as possible and you can't avoid any of it by design, sorry!!!!

Also trying to CC mobs and beat the timer is a joke. Trying to pug anything anymore is a complete joke. So the choices and player agency are narrowing, not widening, especially if you can't/won't pug anymore.

[Kokolums]

Out of all the possible complains about bfa, this is the one i understand the least. It's always been this way. It's nothing new. Leveling is fun once, maybe twice, and then you step into the treadmill. You do your dailies, you run a couple of dungeons, you do your raid, and then you either do the same on another character, or you do something else. It's literally always been this way. For long stretches of the game, there wasn't even anything else to do. Now there are other things to do, but even if they all suck, that still leaves you with the things that were fun for the last 14 years: dungeons and raids.

Wrong, the PRIMARY appeal was socializing in the vibrant in-game community on your server. That could mean raids and dungeons, or PvP (world and BGs), or just getting to know people and hanging out and player-run events. The community was the primary attraction, it was up front, and then you offered raids and dungeons as something for the community to do. Today's WoW is backwards. Everything is stripped away and all that is left is raids and dungeons. Apparently, if raids are good, WoW is barely sustainable with 2-3 million subs but if raids go bad AS WELL then the entire thing might collapse imo.

Vanlla WoW is: we offer an in game community to socialize in. BTW there are things to do with the community such as a,b,c,x,y,z.

Modern WoW: we offer raids and dungeons.

Modern WoW feels incredibly shallow compared to vanilla.

[Troukepo]

Why wouldn't you want them to be challenging? One of the problems with Warfronts is it's too easy.

I don't enjoy current content. I enjoy doing old content solo. But I also enjoy having better gear for doing old content easier so I have to do current content.
Personally I'd prefer if gearing up was even easier (buyable sets in store please) so I can skip the boring parts of the expansion and then start doing the previous raids etc.

For warfronts/LFR etc I just join and then watch youtube/twitch etc while walking around doing the bare minimum to avoid being kicked, so I'd prefer if I could just buy a set from the blizzard store so other's aren't penalized by my style of playing.
However tokens + the AH does help a bit when buying BoE stuff also.

[infinitemeridian]

This is the fundamental problem with WoW. The actual fun content is siloed into just these 2 areas (and pvp if you're into that). I had high hopes for Warfronts and Islands adding 2 NEW additions to this tree, but the potential just has not been found yet.

It doesn't help that raiding has too many difficulties and mythic is too hard, as well as that the dungeons this expac have just way too much trash which makes them extremely annoying. Mythic+ is also not rewarding enough - there needs to be more cosmetic items tied to it, not just the same mythic 0 gear with a bigger number.

[Surreality]

I've done one run of the first wing in LFR. I've done just under 10 total mythic+ runs. Yet somehow I've had more fun with everything outside of those two things than I ever have, and am still over 350 item level without even trying to get there. Little to no effort given. I'm discovering things I never even knew existed in the game because I spent so much time trying play someone else's way. This game, very much like life itself, is what you make it. For me, it's not a gear treadmill with only one direction to go. It's a world filled with wonder and excitement with unlimited paths. You just have to go find them, which seems to be the biggest problem for most players.