New raid Jan 22

[Argorwal]

By the way, people are noting that raids have historically come out every 5 months or so and that's true and worked well... in the past.

Remember, that in the past most raids took a big chunk of that 5 month period progressing. You wouldn't kill the entire raid for weeks and weeks, maybe even taking most of the 4-5 months to get to and farm the last boss. There wasn't another option - if you wanted to see the raid, that was how you did it.

The two things that are different now are LFR and normal. LFR obviously lets you see the raid when a wing is released. There's no real progression there - if you want to, you'll see all of the bosses in a wing the week it's released.

Normal isn't much better. While I'm sure some people progress in normal, most people get through it in a month or less. That means that if you hit normal the week it's out, you're done pretty fast. In this environment, insisting on 5 months between raids means you have a long drought where you're farming the raid or not raiding depending on how you deal with a raid once it's done (obviously some people move to the next difficulty bit that's not really a new raid, is it?)

The obvious solution here is remove all difficulties except mythic!

Then all these people will have tons of incompleted raid content to work through!

/s

[FelPlague]

So what are you trying to (fucking) say ?

That blizzard does not work over the holidays, and does not release patches JUST before the holidays.

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How long to the holidays last in the US? In Scotland we are back at work on the 2nd. They won't be back nearly 3 weeks after the Newyear?

they will be back on the 1st or second, but they want to most likely do abit more testing. as there will be a whole 2 weeks of no work between the 8.1 release and raid release.

[Onikaroshi]

Empty compared to what? The only thing at launch 7.1 had that 8.1 doesn’t is a dungeon and the Warfront/islands take that’s place. You might not like the content added but that doesn’t mean the patch is lacking content.

Barely anyone likes that content, MAYBE the most casual of the casuals, but even people who don't raid find them mostly boring and wasted dev time. A new dungeon would have gone over much better.

We used to get numerous new dungeons over the course of an expansion, ICC released with 3, we got like 3 new dungeons over the course of Legion, and it's looking like even less now.

[Mauzi92]

Some people say remove TF and bring back ML.
Sorry but what does ML mean?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Barely anyone likes that content, MAYBE the most casual of the casuals, but even people who don't raid find them mostly boring and wasted dev time. A new dungeon would have gone over much better.

We used to get numerous new dungeons over the course of an expansion, ICC released with 3, we got like 3 new dungeons over the course of Legion, and it's looking like even less now.

I don’t really care what people subjectively think of the content I’m looking at it objectively and as such there is no lack. You might not like a form of content I might not like a form of content but that doesn’t make it any less content.

There also isn’t a set layout for when we would even get new dungeons. Tbc only added one, wrath added 4, cata had 5,mop had none, wod had none, legion had 3, bfa will have atleast 1 and we don’t know if they have more planned after words.

[hulkgor]

Guess OP wanted a raid to be released on Christmas and New Year, making a clusterfuck of a mess to guilds, or actually expecting Blizzard to work through the holidays.

Yea, i rather wait a bit longer.

[tocoman]

Time needs to be given to guilds for CE. 3 months would be way too short for a raid. This is the primary reason it isn't getting released on Dec. 11th.

[Gasparde]

Time needs to be given to guilds for CE. 3 months would be way too short for a raid. This is the primary reason it isn't getting released on Dec. 11th.

There's about a thousand mythic Ghuun kills already (with about 500 of them coming in after the nerfs 2 weeks ago). By the time the new raid comes out this number will easily go up to like 1.500+ - that's like fucking end of expansion Argus numbers for the fucking entry level 8 boss raid of the expansion.

[Onikaroshi]

I don’t really care what people subjectively think of the content I’m looking at it objectively and as such there is no lack. You might not like a form of content I might not like a form of content but that doesn’t make it any less content.

There also isn’t a set layout for when we would even get new dungeons. Tbc only added one, wrath added 4, cata had 5,mop had none, wod had none, legion had 3, bfa will have atleast 1 and we don’t know if they have more planned after words.

If something is pretty much universally seen as shitty content (warfronts/islands) then even though its content, it's not content that should be focus'd on.

On top of that, we're also getting less raid content.

EN+ToV+NH/7+3+10=20

Uldir+Battle/8+9=17, even if you throw the next raid in there, that we really have no clue when it is coming, that's 19

And the 8.2 raid is smaller than ToS, its ridiculous, legion's raids were already too small imo

If they don't end the expansion with a big, epic, Ulduar/SoO level raid, they're doing raiders a disservice

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If something is pretty much universally seen as shitty content (warfronts/islands) then even though its content, it's not content that should be focus'd on.

So should they have not made any more raids after classic because most people didn’t like/do them? I’d much rather the devs work on the content they think they can improve then just ditch it because it doesn’t fill some arbitrary metic.

[Onikaroshi]

So should they have not made any more raids after classic because most people didn’t like/do them? I’d much rather the devs work on the content they think they can improve then just ditch it because it doesn’t fill some arbitrary metic.

They almost had to, that's where LFR came from. Since LFR's release, something like 60% of the playerbase participates in raid content.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They almost had to, that's where LFR came from. Since LFR's release, something like 60% of the playerbase participates in raid content.

Your kinda proving my point. Raids were under played content they improved them going into wrath/cata and they were still underplayed. They then “improved” them again with lfr instead of just removing them.

[Argorwal]

If something is pretty much universally seen as shitty content (warfronts/islands) then even though its content, it's not content that should be focus'd on.

On top of that, we're also getting less raid content.

EN+ToV+NH/7+3+10=20

Uldir+Battle/8+9=17, even if you throw the next raid in there, that we really have no clue when it is coming, that's 19

And the 8.2 raid is smaller than ToS, its ridiculous, legion's raids were already too small imo

If they don't end the expansion with a big, epic, Ulduar/SoO level raid, they're doing raiders a disservice

Why do you think the raid after battle for zulduzar or whatever would be the final expansion raid?

All past precedent (other than WoD) is there will be another final 10+ boss raid.

8.1.5 is battle and crucible delayed.
8.2.5 is likely the Azshara raid.
8.3.5 would likely be the final expansion raid?

[Deleted]

Doesn’t matter when the content unlocks if class design continues to be the dullest, most streamlined lazy BS it has ever been. The mess that is BfA can be discerned in every aspect of the expansion. And if people think arbitrary gating aka time-gating done lazily is something they will back away from they are wrong. War Campaign continuation in 8.1 is reminiscent of 7.2, in which you got at best 30-minute spoonfuls each reset.

1/10

[Onikaroshi]

Why do you think the raid after battle for zulduzar or whatever would be the final expansion raid?

All past precedent (other than WoD) is there will be another final 10+ boss raid.

8.1.5 is battle and crucible delayed.
8.2.5 is likely the Azshara raid.
8.3.5 would likely be the final expansion raid?

I never said that Azshara raid would be the last raid, I was saying the raid AFTER that better be a fucking epic 12-14 boss raid or they're doing a disservice

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Your kinda proving my point. Raids were under played content they improved them going into wrath/cata and they were still underplayed. They then “improved” them again with lfr instead of just removing them.

A lot of people didn't raid by virtue of logistics, you HAD to be in a raiding guild to raid for the most part, you HAD to adhere to a schedule. People aren't doing islands/warfronts now purely because they're dull, there's nothing else keeping them from it. They're somewhat fixing warfronts with heroic warfronts, but it's too late by 8.2, they should have released it with this warfront.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

A lot of people didn't raid by virtue of logistics, you HAD to be in a raiding guild to raid for the most part, you HAD to adhere to a schedule. People aren't doing islands/warfronts now purely because they're dull, there's nothing else keeping them from it. They're somewhat fixing warfronts with heroic warfronts, but it's too late by 8.2, they should have released it with this warfront.

Pugging was a valid way to raid in both wrath and cata and raiding numbers still sucked, you didn’t have to be in a guild it show up on time ect.

Blizzard had a form of content they liked and improved it till it was used by a good number of people. If they just cut every thing that didn’t instantly take off out of the game we would have next to nothing which is why just saying “people don’t like it stop working on it” is just stupid.

[Kobor]

At least we will have plenty of time to farm enough Titan Residuums for the shiny new Azerite gears :-)

[Onikaroshi]

At least we will have plenty of time to farm enough Titan Residuums for the shiny new Azerite gears :-)

You won't have time to get more than one piece at best lol

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Pugging was a valid way to raid in both wrath and cata and raiding numbers still sucked, you didn’t have to be in a guild it show up on time ect.

Blizzard had a form of content they liked and improved it till it was used by a good number of people. If they just cut every thing that didn’t instantly take off out of the game we would have next to nothing which is why just saying “people don’t like it stop working on it” is just stupid.

They're being extremely slow about even trying, and I doubt they'll carry either over to the next expansion

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You won't have time to get more than one piece at best lol

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They're being extremely slow about even trying, and I doubt they'll carry either over to the next expansion

Improvements have never been a fast thing to come to any content in wow.

[Turaska]

Really, you release the patch on dec 11th and make us wait another month and 2 weeks for the raid??? Shame on your blizzard since December of last year we've gotten 1 mediocre raid. Shame on you blizzard this is pathetic.

They don't want people wasting Christmas over it... releases on the 11th, the next lockout + boss progress would go straight into the 25th+, it's totally logical and sensible that they made it January.