Unlock Pathfinder 2, Flying Now.

[Caerule]

I lead a roleplay guild, so not having enough to do for me isn't really an issue. I run adventures to create my own content.

Would flying be something great to me? Yes. Hell yes. I love flying. It's freedom. Lets me quickly explore and plan stuff, and it's immersive. No longer ground-locked.

Do I think Blizzard should give me what I want on this issue? Nah.

Blizzard didn't just randomly decide on "No more flying". They were beaten to death about it by people that wanted it gone. They weren't the majority, but they were many, and loud. And Blizzard became convinced they had the right idea, and that it was what the people wanted. Obviously the backlash was huge, and so they partially went back on it. But the people that wanted it gone still exist. Some are in this very thread. So it would be a lie to state that everyone wants this, and that Blizzard giving it to us now would please us all.

In the end, we're living in times of compromise.
Some of us want it asap, like me. But at least we know it'll come eventually. We want it enough to gladly jump through the hoops to get it, as long as it can be obtained.
Then there's the no-fliers. Those that oppose flight and feel it ruins the game. At least they know it won't shop up in content that's still relevant.
There's also the people that just don't care about flying enough to put in effort to get it. That's fine. It's no issue for them.
The group that annoys me personally is the group that wants to fly, but not enough to actually unlock it. Only enough to complain about not having it handed to them.

The current situation is a compromise. If you're on either side of the issue, just be glad Blizz didn't fully side with the other side. Flying as reward for participating in the world's outdoor activities is a fine compromise. Even if I would rather have flying this very second, I can recognize that not everyone feels that way.

[SirCowdog]

That sounds like a good idea FF has.

I too miss flying only areas. We had them in BC and Wrath. Like Skettis, Ogri'la, Tempest Keep, and Netherwing Ledge.

- - - Updated - - -



Ooh, so close. You were so close to having a rational, intelligent post. And then you ruined it with a childish insult. Better luck next post.

It's not an insult. Its a factual statement. Blizzard's open world formula is weak. Don't quibble because you didn't like one particular turn of phrase. :/

Also, the irony of getting on my case about insults while calling me childish. LOL

Whatever. Let's get back on topic please.

[Deleted]

please keep flying away, was even forgotten about it, and enjoying riding through the landscape

[Kokolums]

I think this expansion is going to be really hard to bounce back from. Like, I think this was a tipping point.

That was my prediction back in Legion. I said Legion was about the perfect xpac given Blizzard's philosophy and subs basically remained flat. I said the next xpac is bound to be worse which means sub losses will resume and we'll be inching towards less than 2 million players. At that point, the game is basically screwed because once subs are under 2 million, you are at the edge of full collapse to the point where basic systems like LFR, dungeon finder, raid finder, etc stop working.

It was an absolute MUST to fix the in-game social community in BfA or bust. If not, then I think you see Blizz start pulling resources from WoW and just stop making new content. Once you are under 2 million players, I think its too late to fix the in-game community and WoW just dies.

I'm sure another xpac is in development but it should be the LAST xpac at this rate, unless it gets cancelled. If it gets cancelled, then the FINAL state of WoW is BfA. Yikes!

[Deleted]

please keep flying away, was even forgotten about it, and enjoying riding through the landscape.

good wake up call though, once flying goes live its time to turn off warmode. hello gank raids descending from the sky.

[Satelliteyears0o]

I think unlocking flying now will help with this lack of content drought and bring people back. I hardly log in anymore. If I had flying, I would start logging in, do World Quests, grind rep, quests and level alts. I think people would start playing again. What do ya'll think?

They dropped 8.0 to pretty much put in overtime into 8.2 and give us something in 8.1 to carry us over to the last 2 major content patches of the xpac. Legion was so front loaded in the content department, then 8.1.5 and 8.2-8.2.5 were periods of content draught that otherwise took the shine away from tomb months before setting foot into the raid.

Big things are coming.

[Frosteye]

I used to do all the pathfinders but I'm not doing that shit anymore

I didn't mind leveling on the ground in earlier expansions and paying a chunk of gold to unlock flying, but the long tedious pathfinder is just too much for me. I begrudgingly did it back in legion/wod, but ugh....... I wouldn't mind them gating flying behind a certain patch -- like when the patch comes out -- boom everyone can fly.

I hardly log in anymore because this game feels like it's trying to fulfill some monthly active users quota with its "chore-list" of things to do.... Rather than being actually fun

[Maneo]

Would play the game so much more if flight was unlocked.

As is I pretty much just log on for raid nights

[Deathgoose]

Pathfinder 1 means you have:

Explored all the content on land.
Done all of the major storyline quests on land.
Farmed world quests for rep on land.

Basically, you have already "been there, done that" on land.

To keep flying locked at this point, especially at the first major patch, is silly.

[Muajin76]

Flying should have been unlocked through trainer BFA day one.

That would have been stupid tbh.

[Ærion]

This is a subject where Blizzard could learn a thing or two from Square Enix and how they handle flight in Final Fantasy XIV.

You have zone-based flight. With each new zone, you have to explore certain areas to obtain collectibles, and then you also have to complete 5 specific quests that are the tail end of a chain of quests. One of the quest chains always results in the quest being part of clearing a dungeon.

It takes what Blizzard devs have said about "explore our content we worked hard on it" as well as giving players what they want: flight.

The second thing they could learn from this is that there are literally inaccessible areas of zones unless players have flight unlocked. This introduces new quests in each zone, and more content to explore. It's a win-win for the devs and the players.

You presume the current devs have a shred of sense left. These diablo leftovers would remove jumping if they could.

I wish the release of wow classic would wipe the live servers of flight haters, but that's not gonna happen.

Truth is, when flying's back so am I; untill then, there's a bunch of other games better suited for "fun" (a dirty word over at actibli$$).

[SirCowdog]

This is a subject where Blizzard could learn a thing or two from Square Enix and how they handle flight in Final Fantasy XIV.

You have zone-based flight. With each new zone, you have to explore certain areas to obtain collectibles, and then you also have to complete 5 specific quests that are the tail end of a chain of quests. One of the quest chains always results in the quest being part of clearing a dungeon.

It takes what Blizzard devs have said about "explore our content we worked hard on it" as well as giving players what they want: flight.

The second thing they could learn from this is that there are literally inaccessible areas of zones unless players have flight unlocked. This introduces new quests in each zone, and more content to explore. It's a win-win for the devs and the players.

I haven't played FFXIV to the point of flying, so correct me if I'm wrong here. But doesn't FF use instanced based zones and not a seamless open world like wow?

I think there are still ways for Blizzard to use flying in creative ways, but I don't think a zone by zone method would work very well. Pathfinder Part 1 should have unlocked flying in the initial launch zones. Later islands released, such as Broken Shores or Argus, would have their own associated Pathfinder achievements.

Why they aren't doing this now leads me to believe flight is restricted for non-gameplay reasons. Which is also very likely why flight hasn't been incorporated into the open world progression, as you mentioned in your last paragraph.

This entire approach to game design is pretty clearly designed less to be fun or enjoyable, and more to pad the amount of time spent by limiting player agency and movement through content. It's just more obvious now with the overall lack of decent content to mask it.

[StrawberryZebra]

Pathfinder 1 means you have:

Explored all the content on land.
Done all of the major storyline quests on land.
Farmed world quests for rep on land.

Basically, you have already "been there, done that" on land.

To keep flying locked at this point, especially at the first major patch, is silly.

This is precisely why I think having flying as a "reward" for completing all of the content is very counter intuitive. You've already done everything, why would you want or need flying at that point?

Having WoD and Legion flying still locked behind the achivements is redundant at this point. I came back after a long break since the end of WotLK and, honestly, not being to fly in them felt more like a punishment than an incentive. I'm not going to waste my time doing old content to unlock flying for zones I'm never going to go back to.

But then again, Blizzard probably thinks that's a good justification for delaying flight. Instead of using it to spice up the game, all they're seeing is the "threat" it poses to how players consume their weaksauce.

The issue, largely, stems from the fact that Blizzard are unwilling or unable to design content around being able to fly. Some of my favourite zones in WoW contain a lot of verticallity, and that allows for far more interesting zone design than simply locking players to the ground. I loved Storm Peaks and Icecrown in WotLK, Vashj'ir and Deepholm in Cata were fantastic too

Blizzard are clearly capable of producing zones where flying feels like a core part of the zones design. They've just decided that players no longer want flying and aren't designing with it in mind anymore.

It makes me sad to see how many people(including Blizz) think the problem is with flying. When the problem with content is that the fundamental approach to its design is just weak. It's too disposable, too linear, too formulaic, too shallow. Even after a single week of WQs, you've basically already seen everything there is to offer. Flight won't change that.

This is the crux of the issue really. WQ's are very shallow as content, particularly open world content. They don't have you doing anything out of the ordinary, they're a check list of "Kill this, loot that, click the popup box" type quests. Typically, I spent more time moving from WQ to WQ than I did completing them - At times it took me almost an hour to complete Champions of Azeroth quests simply because they were 1 per zone and flight times are excessive.

At present, the only ones that stand out as being their own unique content are the Tortollan WQ's. They're a change of pace from the norm. They help break up otherwise stale questing. I don't think they're brilliant by themselves, but they're certainly different.

To put forwards some suggestions, I'd like to see WQ's have some form of permenance while they're in effect. For example, if Azerite infused Sethrakk have taken over a town or outpost or something and the players need to push them back, with the location being unusable by players until they've done so. If they players don't take action and push them back, then they gradually spread across more and more of the zone. Similar in some ways to what GW2 does.

As another idea perhaps WQ's could be styled more like Hunts, where you've got to track down an NPC that's somewhere in the zone, set traps for them, ambush them etc. Or maybe it's a spy game, where you've got to solve a puzzle to figure out which NPC is the spy. It would be quite fitting to root out enemy spies that are hiding in your mists, as well as thematically apropriate. Or hell, even a simple treasure hunt.

Even just clustering the current WQ's closer together in the short term would be an improvement - Spending 20 minutes just barreling through them removes a lot of the need for flying in the first place.

[Doffen]

Lol yeah, the fun fact is that some people actually won't play this game without flying, and for that reason only.

Yes, flying would be nice, but it's not needed.

[hulkgor]

I think unlocking flying now will help with this lack of content drought and bring people back. I hardly log in anymore. If I had flying, I would start logging in, do World Quests, grind rep, quests and level alts. I think people would start playing again. What do ya'll think?

I rather we stay on the ground for at least one more tier\season.

[SirCowdog]

Lol yeah, the fun fact is that some people actually won't play this game without flying, and for that reason only.

Yes, flying would be nice, but it's not needed.

Why is that funny? Would you keep playing if your favorite class or spec was removed? Or your favorite game mode?

Imagine if every expansion you had to spend weeks grinding rep just to unlock one of those things. How happy would you be about it?

[ro9ue]

I think they just need to speed up the release of the next expansion. I don't see how they can salvage the problems with BFA.

[kamuimac]

I think unlocking flying now will help with this lack of content drought and bring people back. I hardly log in anymore. If I had flying, I would start logging in, do World Quests, grind rep, quests and level alts. I think people would start playing again. What do ya'll think?

definetly agree - there is 0 reason to do any wq now as they are complete garbage and reward garbage .

without flying there is no point even moving out of main city .

they should have enabled it months ago seeing sad state of world content out there

[Aggrophobic]

This is a subject where Blizzard could learn a thing or two from Square Enix and how they handle flight in Final Fantasy XIV.

You have zone-based flight. With each new zone, you have to explore certain areas to obtain collectibles, and then you also have to complete 5 specific quests that are the tail end of a chain of quests. One of the quest chains always results in the quest being part of clearing a dungeon.

It takes what Blizzard devs have said about "explore our content we worked hard on it" as well as giving players what they want: flight.

The second thing they could learn from this is that there are literally inaccessible areas of zones unless players have flight unlocked. This introduces new quests in each zone, and more content to explore. It's a win-win for the devs and the players.

Or the could just have the system they used to have - Once you've seen the zone and you're max level you just buy flying. If it's not for you, use the ground mounts. Choice is a good thing and the outdoor world is boring since Blizzard removed this core feature from the game.

[ImpTaimer]

Disable flying while in Warmode or PvP flagged. Problem solved.