Will Classic bring back player communication?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

If its anything like private servers, no.
People talk a lot more in Classic, and that is because there is nothing to do in the game, so people just sit in trade chat or barrens chat and post racism and memes all day.

The reason people seemed reasonable and willing to communicate was because in 2004, the gamer culture was different. Thinking the game will facilitate a full return to that is the epitome of nostalgia in my eyes, and after many many hours spent on Private servers I see the same things I see on live servers.

Build a group:
1 player joins.
2nd player joins, first one is AFK.
Player three joins, player 1 is offline with no communication.
Final player joins, another one leaves.
Finally fill with 5 attentive players, 1 of them is not making any effort to get to the dungeon.
Finally get all 5 players in the dungeon, wipe to some challenging scenario, one player leaves.

Its basically the same thing as M+ is now, except it doesn't take 30 minutes to get all 5 players into the dungeon.

What's even more ironic is the mages and warlocks who just go full aoe in 5 mans and don't bat an eye lash at doing so.

The game is really played differently now, and that's not a bad thing in my eyes.
But it will be in many others, and it will really bother the people who can't seem to think objectively on what Classic is and will be in 2019.
Best just to put aside any of these ideas and assume its going to be nothing like you remember it.

[Kuja]

It's kinda forced, seeing how you have to communicate to get a group going. But I hope it's more than just that. Some people are very nice to talk to, but usually there's no time. Perhaps mana breaks will make a return.

[Elidan456]

People will start Pug groups on Peak time to clear MC and BWL. I wouldn't be surprised to see pug groups also clearing the first few bosses of AQ40 and Naxx. Just like current Heroic and Mythic pug, people will have a discord, talk to each other, say gg once the raid is cleared and leave. The only thing that may be different is that you may see more of the same people over time since the pool of player is from the same server. Anyway, In before you see "LFM BWL, need AOTC" kind of raid.

[Deleted]

At the end of day you have to take one loot system, none is perfect or ensures fair and balanced loot distribution.

DKP System(s) had their share of flaws as well and were by no means save from corruption.

No car provides perfect safetey and comfort either.
Still, I would rather sit in a BMW 6 than a Ford Model T

[Kralljin]

No car provides perfect safetey and comfort either.
Still, I would rather sit in a BMW 6 than a Ford Model T

Biased comparison at best.

It comes down where you personally set your preferences as far as loot system is concerned.
Do want a loot system that is free of any potential corruption?
The standard roll system prevents any potential corruption, yet by no means ensures that loot is distributed evenly or in any intelligent manner.

DKP and other similiar systems need serious management, are less prone to corruption but not immune, doesn't ensure intelligent distribution and you can bet that people somehow try to gauge the system into their favor, via DKP hoarding or whatever.

Loot council can provide the fairest and most intelligent loot distribution, but is also the one that is most prone corruption.

In my opinion, the corruption via Loot council is at least so obvious that you can take your hat right off the bat.

[Deleted]

Biased comparison at best.

Unless I redefine the objects in question, a comparison is incapable of being biased.

In my opinion, the corruption via Loot council is at least so obvious that you can take your hat right off the bat

Loot councils have killed countless guilds. Because, it's not even relevant if the LC is corrupt or not..it's enough that people THINK it's corrupt. And people always think the worst about everyone else, as soon as they don't get what they want.

It starts with rumors, goes to cliques in secluded TS channels, and ends at 9 people leaving the guild, including 3 healers...congrats, raid canceled, time wasted. This happens in EVERY SINGLE GUILD that uses a LC. It's not a question of "if" ... the only question is "when". The only exceptions to that rule, are really hardcore raiding guilds, filled only with people who understand loot distribution, don't care about loot over progress, and where the loot council is effectively the entire raid. And even then there's a chance someones ego will trump logic.

DKP systems are shit, because all loot systems are shit.

But at least they have a lower chance of killing a guild than crap council.

[Kralljin]

Unless I redefine the objects in question, a comparison is incapable of being biased.

It is, a BMW 6 is objectively superior to a Model T in almost any factor.
Whereas there is not a loot system that is objectively superior to any other in every factor.

This happens in EVERY SINGLE GUILD that uses a LC. It's not a question of "if" ... the only question is "when".

Been in Guild(s) since Cata with loot council, none of them fell apart due to loot council.
And my current guild has been using loot council for years as well until BfA, without serious incidents.

What you describe happens due people being selfish assholes, there it is only a matter of time until a guilds falls apart due to them, because those people are basically a ticking bomb just waiting to go off.

[Deleted]

It is, a BMW 6 is objectively superior to a Model T in almost any factor.

As DKP is to a loot council.

Been in Guild(s) since Cata with loot council, none of them fell apart due to loot council.
And my current guild has been using loot council for years as well until BfA, without serious incidents.

You know, when you call someone elses comparisons biased, and then go on to use anecdotal evidence, it really doesn't make you look good.

What you describe happens due people being selfish assholes

I let you in on a little secret:
All human beings are selfish assholes.
Some are just better at hiding the fact than others.

[chase_the_mofo]

wow community is shitpile of toxic squeekers that cry about everything

So yeah, go play retail wow for worst xp

Classic will be better but give it min of 3 months before jumping in.

Trust me.

[zephid]

People will have to communicate with each other since there won't be any dungeon/raidfinder.

[RickJamesLich]

Classic will definitely bring back communication, I played retail wow for a decade, and I know what it's like doing dungeons where nobody speaks. On classic if you aren't communicating it will make things trickier, at the very least groups will be planning out pulls and discussing what stuff they should kill and what they should skip. During my time with the classic servers, I've gotten into at least 3 different guilds just because of people I met, guilds that were awesome and that I lasted a long time in (6 months to 1 year at least).

At 60, or even close to it, if you are running a place like BRD, know what you are doing, and aren't in a guild yet, by the end of the run you are likely getting a guild invite for example. But yah, in classic you're pretty much going to need to communicate to be successful in dungeons, on retail you never need to utter a single word and can come out victorious every time.

[Kralljin]

As DKP is to a loot council.

I'm beginning to believe you are not really getting the point.
Every loot system has both advantages and disadvantages, it's to one's self to decide which do you think is the best.

If you compare a car from the 21th century to one from the early 20th century, the old timer is bound to lose any direct comparison in every factor barring nostalgia.

You know, when you call someone elses comparisons biased, and then go on to use anecdotal evidence, it really doesn't make you look good.

But claiming that Loot council leads every guild to certain doom is by no means a biased statement?
Where's your proof for that statement? Or is it based on personal experience?

This happens in EVERY SINGLE GUILD that uses a LC. It's not a question of "if" ... the only question is "when". .

I let you in on a little secret:
All human beings are selfish assholes.
Some are just better at hiding the fact than others.

Please spare me your "wisdom".

[Deleted]

I'm beginning to believe you are not really getting the point.
Every loot system has both advantages and disadvantages, it's to one's self to decide which do you think is the best.

That is very correct.
And as you might have noticed by now, if you were not blinded by the self-centered assumption that your opinion is the "right" one, I am of the opinion that LC is dogsh\*, and DKP, while still bad, is the best among a bunch of bad options.

You may therefore stop trying to convince me. It's not happening.

But claiming that Loot council leads every guild to certain doom is by no means a biased statement?
Where's your proof for that statement? Or is it based on personal experience?

Where is your proof that lootcouncil guilds are stable?
Or is it based on personal experience?

As you may have noticed, you don't need to answer this purely rethorical question...you already showed your affinity for anecdotal "evidence".

Please spare me your "wisdom".

Likewise.

Let's end this discussion, because I don't see a fruitful outcome.

[kamuimac]

I joined a group as healer last night. Got bumped off a ledge and accidentally made a few extra pulls, but healed through it and we survived. Quipped a few jokes, apologized, literally nothing from the other four players.

After a couple bosses I pulled some extra packs while we were clearing. Nobodies health was dropping, we were aoe dpsing anyway, and we were all sub 120. Still no issues clearing, but tank starts complaining and other dps start yelling at me and talking about how stupid I am, special needs, etc etc. Then I’m like “this is the first time you guys say anything and it’s this?” Some complaints about state of the game, and they kick me.

We were almost at the last boss at this point. The group knows they can easily pick up another healer from LFD. They don’t give two shits about my time lost missing out on the final bonus exp and it doesn’t hurt them at all.

Will we ACTUALLY get back to people communicating with each other in Classic?

Groups will be harder to form and replacements will take travel time not to mention just finding someone. These same people would probably have preferred to work it out with me instead of kicking. Hell, I didn’t pull anymore after they said stop. I was just discussing why I thought the extra pulls made sense and they kicked me...

You could argue that these people would never have grouped with me in the first place but forget that argument. Suppose they DID group with me and same scenario came up.

I think either Classic DOES bring back tighter community that’s more willing to engage meaningfully with each other or it ends up falling flat and becoming just another desolate playground for those happy to piddle around with original wow either solo or with a tight group of friends.

i simply cannot wait for the inevitable shitshow and bunch of lfg addons because nobody sane will find fun having to go to city to spam trade for hours to find replacemnt tank/healer .

you are really naive to belive that people wont be leaving after 1st or 2nd wipe ? gl with that

even private servers functioned mainly because they had lfg addon for group forming.

people speaking to each other ? in 2018 ? it will be the same shitshow as in mythic + with people jumping ot each others thraots at slightest mistakes

[anon5123]

even private servers functioned mainly because they had lfg addon for group forming.

Thanks for confirming that you've never actually played a private server, because if you did play private servers, you'd know every single one of them has a World chat channel, and "lfg addons" are almost nonexistent. (mostly because all they really do is scan world chat for LFG messages)

Furthermore, world chat is possible in retail too, just nobody uses it because no need to communicate.

people speaking to each other ? in 2018 ? it will be the same shitshow as in mythic + with people jumping ot each others thraots at slightest mistakes

Thanks for further confirming that you've never played a vanilla private server, because this shit doesn't happen. People don't drop group after 1 wipe, people don't "jump at each other's throats" for "slightest mistakes", no, no, you're thinking of retail, sweetie

[kamuimac]

I'm beginning to believe you are not really getting the point.
Every loot system has both advantages and disadvantages, it's to one's self to decide which do you think is the best.
.

ofc -but you live in 2019 - are you honestly naive enough to belive that 99% of guilds wont run with loot councils because this is the only way they can exploit recruits to gear their buddies ?

like come on get real.

[Coombs]

It won't. Well maybe more so than what people talk about in Retail.

You have to understand that WoW was simply the GUI for the community. Vanilla will never be back because we cannot recreate time as it was with the people who were in it. In the early 2000s women loved chat rooms, men loved games, and in one place women could chat and watch an elf dance, while men could slaughter and flirt. The culture has shifted to a point where communication will never be what it was, and that is fine.

What I have learned from the fourth chapter of the Green Hills of Stranglethorn, through creative jiggering, is thus "I thought about Vanilla and about what a great advantage an experience of Vanilla was to a Gamer. It was one of the major subjects of gaming and certainly one of the hardest to write truly of, and those Gamers who had not seen it were always very jealous and tried to make it seem unimportant, or abnormal, or a disease as a subject, while, really, it was just something quite irreplaceable that they had missed."

This sums up all private server players who will be playing in Classic, and they will be the ones who will destroy any chance at communication as it was then, because they were not a part of what it was. We will never have Vanilla back, but Classic in itself might be fun.

[kamuimac]

People will start Pug groups on Peak time to clear MC and BWL. I wouldn't be surprised to see pug groups also clearing the first few bosses of AQ40 and Naxx. Just like current Heroic and Mythic pug, people will have a discord, talk to each other, say gg once the raid is cleared and leave. The only thing that may be different is that you may see more of the same people over time since the pool of player is from the same server. Anyway, In before you see "LFM BWL, need AOTC" kind of raid.

they will try to start them for sure - but knowing how toxic people are those runs will be "lfm MC everything reserved"

gl pugging in classic this will end well for sure.

[anon5123]

ofc -but you live in 2019 - are you honestly naive enough to belive that 99% of guilds wont run with loot councils because this is the only way they can exploit recruits to gear their buddies ?

like come on get real.

Are you honestly naive enough to believe that people won't just drop the guild when they see that all the loot is being handed out to the GM's friends?

like come on get real.



- - - Updated - - -

they will try to start them for sure - but knowing how toxic people are those runs will be "lfm MC everything reserved"

and you seriously believe people will join a pug when "everything" is reserved

lol

How much is Blizzard paying you to shitpost against classic? It's hilarious.

[Kralljin]

And as you might have noticed by now, if you were not blinded by the self-centered assumption that your opinion is the "right" one

Never claimed it is the "right" one, i pointed out that your comparison is faulty.
Lootsystems have advantages and disadvantages, that is quintessence of the very first paragraph that i replied to you, you just read "Loot council is the best system ever" for some reason.

Where is your proof that lootcouncil guilds are stable?

Pointless question because i never made that statement.
You just assume it, when in fact i said that loot council is in prone to corruption, which in return however doesn't mean that it is bound to happen in every guild or every disbanding due to it.

ofc -but you live in 2019 - are you honestly naive enough to belive that 99% of guilds wont run with loot councils because this is the only way they can exploit recruits to gear their buddies ?

like come on get real.

I'm really in the mood to discuss this further but whatever.

No, not every guild runs loot council to exploit others.

Some Guilds use because they don't want to manage a DKP System, as it one big hassle to manage for both members and leaders.
Some Guilds want to hand their loot in a intelligent manner, to avoid that extremely valueable items go to people that don't really need, if you give TF to a Rogue, despite your MT not having it solely due to DKP, then this lootsystem effectively gimped your raid.

Can people exploit it? Of course they can. Will some people exploit? Of Course.
Will 99% of all guilds that use Loot council abuse it? That's something i would love to see proven, similiar if you start to claim it's some kind of "majority".

I'm not up for a moral debate regarding the evil selfish nature of man and naivety, the truth of the matter is simply that shades of grey exist, whether you like or not.

they will try to start them for sure - but knowing how toxic people are those runs will be "lfm MC everything reserved"

Supply and demand in some sense also applies here.

People reserve things because it works, people join those groups because they are too lazy to form a group themselves.

Making your own group remains the best solution to fight any of the "need Achievement / Ilvl X / R.IO score Y", but as those groups at least have some modicum success in forming a full group and completing their goal, those groups will form again under similiar rules.