Why is WW so underpresented in high M+?

[Vampyrr]

K lol. Monk is good and it is represented. 8 of the top 20 runs have a WW in the group. kk.

I mean they do but its the same TWO monks not diff ones gonna have to widen out a bit as at that stage those 2 will be fairly well known.

[mvpness]

cause they are shit

[swatsonqt]

dps output goes down as hell when not played properly. that's a big -.
every error in gameplay or pull costs us more dps than other damage dealer.

we technically have a good defensive kit but no immunities or things to cheese stuff.

Ring is nice but kind of niche and needs propper routes/team gameplay to make use of.

Paralyze is a bad version of headnut/imprison.

Dispell is cool but not a gamechanging thing in our current dungeons.

Seems like there is no real deal bringing a ww unless you want that 5%. but then again you have to argue: as soon as something goes wrong the ww becomes very bad very quickly...so why take ww instad of something else that can provide better things?

[Mixxy]

Paralyze is a bad version of headnut/imprison.

How is Paralyze in any way worse than Imprison? Both have the same range, both have the same CD, both have the same duration, but Paralyze will work on everything that isn't straight-up immune to CC and Imprison only works on Humanoids, Beasts and Demons.
And even then, there are lots of Humanoids, Beasts or Demons that are immune to my DH's Imprison, but not my Monk's Paralyze.

[swatsonqt]

How is Paralyze in any way worse than Imprison? Both have the same range, both have the same CD, both have the same duration, but Paralyze will work on everything that isn't straight-up immune to CC and Imprison only works on Humanoids, Beasts and Demons.
And even then, there are lots of Humanoids, Beasts or Demons that are immune to my DH's Imprison, but not my Monk's Paralyze.

paralyze gets you infight and you cant skip.
*as soon as you get too close

[Mixxy]

paralyze gets you infight and you cant skip.
*as soon as you get too close

Imprison does too. They have the exact same range.

[Puri]

Imprison does too.

No, you can even dance on a imprisoned target and won't get infight, while for most other CCs (including paralyze) it's enough the get into their aggro range.

[Mixxy]

No, you can even dance on a imprisoned target and won't get infight, while for most other CCs (including paralyze) it's enough the get into their aggro range.

Huh. I just tested it, Imprisoned enemies still agro on to you if you get close enough to them. Only seems to about half the effective agro range.

[Shiny212]

The answer lies in the fact that monks are not a popular class.

[Mixxy]

The answer lies in the fact that monks are not a popular class.

That and, while they are super good for M+, they're still outshone by a couple of others.

[Shiny212]

That and, while they are super good for M+, they're still outshone by a couple of others.

Even when they've historically been excellent or borderline OP, they're still not represented due to lack of popularity. Even during MoP, pandas and monks both became least played class/race respectively.

[swatsonqt]

Huh. I just tested it, Imprisoned enemies still agro on to you if you get close enough to them. Only seems to about half the effective agro range.

might be a smaller range of imprison? i can only speak out of experience...tried to copy strats from certain pulls seen on stream and oof...infight

[RobertMugabe]

dps output goes down as hell when not played properly. that's a big -.
every error in gameplay or pull costs us more dps than other damage dealer.

we technically have a good defensive kit but no immunities or things to cheese stuff.

Ring is nice but kind of niche and needs propper routes/team gameplay to make use of.

Paralyze is a bad version of headnut/imprison.

Dispell is cool but not a gamechanging thing in our current dungeons.

Seems like there is no real deal bringing a ww unless you want that 5%. but then again you have to argue: as soon as something goes wrong the ww becomes very bad very quickly...so why take ww instad of something else that can provide better things?

Paralyze works exactly the same as Imprison. Ring of Peace is useful in every dungeon and definitely not niche. Our toolkit is better than what most classes have and we can even heal/dispell which will help out the healer a lot. Like do you even play WW in m+?

Also WW is a super easy class to play. I specifically chose it, BECAUSE it the spec is so easy, fast and so flexible (talking about how they can adapt to every situation and easily deal both consistent ST and MT damage). Even if you have Hit Combo and screw up it's not a big deal in BfA.

[Mixxy]

Even when they've historically been excellent or borderline OP, they're still not represented due to lack of popularity. Even during MoP, pandas and monks both became least played class/race respectively.

It's a bit of a shame, because I personally think they're fantastic. Storm, Earth & Fire is a fun, visually striking cooldown... the "don't use the same attack twice" gameplay actually has this really satisfying rhythm to it, and the mob-control and mobility are ace.

I feel like a lot of people just don't give it a fair shot because of memes.

[Shiny212]

It's a bit of a shame, because I personally think they're fantastic. Storm, Earth & Fire is a fun, visually striking cooldown... the "don't use the same attack twice" gameplay actually has this really satisfying rhythm to it, and the mob-control and mobility are ace.

I feel like a lot of people just don't give it a fair shot because of memes.

Has to know with knowing your audience. MoP was a pretty big miss in that regard whereby a sizable schism between pro pandas and anti pandas happened because of what the players expected from blizzard and the world of the game. It was an experiment and as evident from WoD and subsequent expansions they discarded it and haven't looked back.

[qwikz]

It's a bit of a shame, because I personally think they're fantastic. Storm, Earth & Fire is a fun, visually striking cooldown... the "don't use the same attack twice" gameplay actually has this really satisfying rhythm to it, and the mob-control and mobility are ace.

I feel like a lot of people just don't give it a fair shot because of memes.

Because Blizzard failed to make them interesting, and I am not only talking about gameplay. No unique weapons or armor, no interesting backstory/lore or famous characters (i cant even remember the panda leaders names), ability animations just look weird and out of place with races other than panda compared to other classes, the list goes on. It really has nothing to pull people from the standard classes and DK/DH blows them out of the water in every category.

I realize its subjective but I strongly doubt people dont play them mainly because of memes.

[d00mh4cker]

I guess its mostly because of WWs mastery being super boring causing a predictable playstyle + the animations and sound effects being super lame.

[Twdft]

Since the Outlaw nerf Windwalkers are again in half the MDI groups:

https://raider.io/mythic-dungeon-int...-trials/west-2

[Eace]

I would think the passive group movement speed alone would make people be lining up to have a WW monk in a timed dungeon.

Windwalking gives 10% movement speed in a 10 yard radius. It's negligible.

WWs are Combat Rogues that trade damage for extra utility.

They really don't. The only perks over a rogue that they have are RoP and an AoE stun. Both have an incapacitate (Sap/Paralysis) and a way to soak damage (Karma/Cloak+Riposte), but Rogues have a ST stun, Gouge, Blind, Tricks, stealth, and Shroud.

[Biomega]

They really don't. The only perks over a rogue that they have are RoP and an AoE stun. Both have an incapacitate (Sap/Paralysis) and a way to soak damage (Karma/Cloak+Riposte), but Rogues have a ST stun, Gouge, Blind, Tricks, stealth, and Shroud.

But that's literally what I'm saying. I didn't say they bring MORE utility, they just bring a few extra things Rogues don't have (like AoE stun and Ring) in exchange for damage that was lower at the time of me writing that - as there have been nerfs since, that gap is much smaller now, if there is one at all. But the extra utility remains.