UK: 7 High ranking labour MP's quit party, Tory's facing own break up.

[Dizzeeyooo]

In any case, I would not vote for Tony Blair or any centre-left candidate because there was little actual difference between New Labour and the Tories

If you think there is no difference between 1997 Labour under Tony Blair and the current Tory government, then this conversation is sadly pointless.

Enjoy enabling a no deal Tory Brexit, hopefully the UK rewards Corbyn appropriately.

[slartworp]

If you think there is no difference between 1997 Labour under Tony Blair and the current Tory government, then this conversation is sadly pointless.

Enjoy enabling a no deal Tory Brexit, hopefully the UK rewards Corbyn appropriately.

They are different in that Blair had tons of money. I'm sure a Tory government in 1997 would have behaved very differently. For example welfare was actually pretty generous in retrospect under Major/Thatcher.

I'm not sure what you mean by enabling a no-deal brexit. I voted remain, would do so again tomorrow.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I'm not sure what you mean by enabling a no-deal brexit. I voted remain, would do so again tomorrow.

Do you think the glorious leader did, or would?

[rogueMatthias]

Corbyn wiped out the tory majority against all expectations, outperforming the previous two centre-left Labour leaders, just 1% behind the Tories.

Undoubtedly he would have won but for his own parliamentary party repeatedly trying to stab him in the back.

May would be pathetic and useless running a PTA meeting, let alone the government. Shes the most dismally incompetent candidate that's stood for years and complete messed up everything on her campaign. And Corbyn STILL lost. Corbyn was popular with the very vocal students and far left but most of the country can't stomach him. Losing but not quite as badly as expected ISN'T a victory.

They should just join the liberal democrats (for Americans out there that is a fairly centrist party), from what I can see they are pretty much in line with them.

Lib Dems have a pretty bad rep though and after the whole student loan fiasco nobody can take them seriously.

It'd be better for this new party to take in some very moderate conservatives and make a new name for itself, and then any lib dems left can fold into the new pary instead.

Normally I'd worry that a new party would just split the votes, but Corbyn and May are both so utterly useless that a REAL worthwhile third option could get support,

[Kiri]

So if a hard Brexit happens, and after a couple months of minor market fluctuations, the UK is fine, will the chicken littles acknowledge the EU isn’t as great as global radical extremists believe it to be?

We were told things would crash under Trump, but every objective measure is better now than under his predecessor. Remove feelings and outrage, and what is worse?

So, there are global radical extremists now? Who is that supposed to be? I am really not sure who you are talking about, actually. Nebulous term, really. Or is it the other way around and everyone who likes the EU is just automatically a global radical extremist?

[Kallisto]

Ooh! It would only take her and two more to effectively remove the Cons working majority.

Rumours are it's her + 4 others from the conservatives.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ised-join-new/

[Kiri]

No, it’s a play on how the Europhiles calls everyone else conservative, attempting to put themselves in some kind of center, adding legitimacy to their arguments. On the global scale, Europhiles are progressive extremists. The extreme on the left of global politics. Anyone trying to be to the left of them are off the grid.

I like the EU a lot. Due to my upbringing, I usually consider myself more a European, because I was hardly ever allowed to feel national pride to begin with. I don't call everyone else conservative, and I don't feel like some sort of progressive extremist. Heck, my values mostly come from Catholicism and I am against many policies on the hard left. There is no homogeneous 'Europhile group' or anything like that. There are some extreme people that hold the EU above all else, but like with all political leanings, there are plenty of quite moderate people as well.

[JohnBrown1917]

No, it’s a play on how the Europhiles calls everyone else conservative, attempting to put themselves in some kind of center, adding legitimacy to their arguments. On the global scale, Europhiles are progressive extremists. The extreme on the left of global politics. Anyone trying to be to the left of them are off the grid.

lol at honestly thinking the conservative/liberal EU is left-wing in any form.

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Corbyn's Brexit strategy is to enable a Tory no deal Brexit and hope to get elected in the aftermath - the more Labour MPs who put country above party by leaving that mess, the better.

lol thinking they are leaving because they put 'party above country'

[Dizzeeyooo]

lol thinking they are leaving because they put 'party above country'

Lol thinking that allowing a no deal Brexit will get Corbyn elected as PM

Also you got the party and country bit the wrong way around!

[JohnBrown1917]

Lol thinking that allowing a no deal Brexit will get Corbyn elected as PM !

I never said that.

[PC2]

I honestly wonder exactly how is this group ideologically different from LibDem?

Apparently it's not an ideological rebellion against Labour, but they specifically don't like the antisemitism and Brexit approach as it relates to Corbynism.

[JohnBrown1917]

Apparently it's not an ideological rebellion against Labour, but they specifically don't like the antisemitism and Brexit approach as it relates to Corbynism.

It clearly is the former, anti-semitism is just a smear and they know it.

[Kallisto]

It clearly is the former, anti-semitism is just a smear and they know it.

Bullshit, you'll just defend anything that is super far left. There are clear cases of Labour Jewish MPs being attacked by Labour members for the simple fact of being Jewish. yet again you bury your head in the sand and cry about how anything to the right of Uncle Joe is some far right conspiracy to put you down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47300832

Another one has told Corbin to go fuck himself.

[Zelk]

It clearly is the former, anti-semitism is just a smear and they know it.

no it's not, please stop being a crank and listen to left wing jews. You are harming our movement.

[JohnBrown1917]

no it's not, please stop being a crank and listen to left wing jews. You are harming our movement.

You can try as hard as you want, anybody looking into this can see through the bullshit.
Its just sad that people are still trying to push it, I feel sorry for them.

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Bullshit, you'll just defend anything that is super far left. There are clear cases of Labour Jewish MPs being attacked by Labour members for the simple fact of being Jewish. yet again you bury your head in the sand and cry about how anything to the right of Uncle Joe is some far right conspiracy to put you down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47300832

Another one has told Corbin to go fuck himself.

lol this is just pathetic, you guys can't even point what makes Corbyn an anti-semite.

[Zelk]

Joan Ryan is an out and out racist, was filmed taking a bung from Israeli officials, and was also one of the worst MPs during the expenses scandal. A titan of Labour Party for sure

And @Gilrak mate, antisemitism exists in the labour party. I've seen it with my own eyes and it's a disgrace. Labour has never been an anti-racist party but one of the goals of the Corbyn project should be to make it one. Just because some blarite wreckers are using antisemitism to punch left doesn't mean we should ignore it. Ignoring it excludes Jewish people from the movement and that is not right at all. A number of Jewish corbyn supporters have spoken out against the antisemitism so to just declare it a smear is completely off base.

[PC2]

lol this is just pathetic, you guys can't even point what makes Corbyn an anti-semite.

I doubt that he hates semites. The issue is he is mindlessly pro-Muslim and very anti-Western. European Jews and Israel are inside the Western tradition, so it's only natural that there is some conflict with his politics.

[Mormolyce]

Jesus Christ British politics is a fucking disaster.

The reality is, the parties need to re-orient along Leave/Remain lines to form coherent policy. But that'd take like a decade. So now they're both self-destructing while Britain runs into an iceberg.

May should never have enacted Article 50. Pulled a pin on a grenade and then scheduled a meeting to discuss what to do with it.

Weird fact: the phrase "third way" was first used to describe fascism, with its combination of private industry and strong state control.

I think that every time I see it. Was it Mussolini who coined the phrase?

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I doubt that he hates semites. The issue is he is mindlessly pro-Muslim and very anti-Western. European Jews and Israel are inside the Western tradition, so it's only natural that there is some conflict with his politics.

Pssst, Arabs are Semites.

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no it's not, please stop being a crank and listen to left wing jews. You are harming our movement.

Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism, as much as the Israeli government would like everyone to think so.

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Bullshit, you'll just defend anything that is super far left. There are clear cases of Labour Jewish MPs being attacked by Labour members for the simple fact of being Jewish. yet again you bury your head in the sand and cry about how anything to the right of Uncle Joe is some far right conspiracy to put you down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47300832

Another one has told Corbin to go fuck himself.

Ms Ryan, chair of the Friends of Israel group, repeated Ms Berger's claim that the party had become "institutionally anti-Semitic", suggesting that under Mr Corbyn's leadership Israel had been "singled out for demonisation and de-legitimisation".

"The Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn has become infected with the scourge of anti-Jewish racism. The problem simply did not exist in the party before his election as leader."

Again, trying to frame criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism. This is the Israeli lobby at work, don't be fooled.

[PC2]

Pssst, Arabs are Semites.

The term is referring to Jewish Semites though. The Hebrew branch.

[Mormolyce]

The issue is Leave/Remain lines cross classic political lines far too often. A Remainer could be a neo-liberal entrepreneur or an open borders ideologue. A Brexiteer could be a conservative nationalist or a communist union worker. How are you going to mary these people in one party?

How do you marry a neo-liberal entrepeneur and a communist union worker into one party? Or a conservative nationalist and an open borders advocate?