Sick of negativity against WoW!

[Mandible]

Hate to say it - but it is the internet. People are not adressing other people, but a void with text. It is the minority who have an understanding for being constructive, and the majority who just toss out their garbage into the ether. Same goes for people adressing other people.

[Gaidax]

Not every change is good. In this case with WOW's recent direction its the equivalent of changing the wheel into a square .

The problem and complaints are not because they try "new things". Its about how those new things are tuned. Island expeditions , warfronts even world quests could be a lot more bearable with design focused more on player enjoyment than for extra time spent ingame for the investor stats. Every facet of Bfa reeks of this. Make everything as tedious, rng and fun capped as possible so you don't run out of that non existent content too soon. THank god it backfired back into their stupid greedy faces and all whos left playing is some clueless play 2h a week casuals and store whales.

I think it is important to have them keep trying to do new things, both because expansions need new features and because in process they can discover pretty awesome stuff.

Best example is M+ - they tried that out and it was legit great. WoW today is a result of many trials and failures over the years where good stuff is retained and less good stuff is either discarded or reused in some other fashion.

Besides, some ideas are good, but then they sort of fall in implementation. For example, all in all, IE is a great idea - it could be like WoW's version of Greater Rifts, but its first version is pretty lukewarm. This is one system I do want them to iterate on, because I can see why they thought it's awesome.

There is also example of Artifact from Legion, where it started a bit wonky, but ended up being legit good system. BFA tried to evolve it but fell short due to various issues and maybe in 8.2 they will take a step back to Legion version, but again this was something new that has a ton of potential, even if initially it was not welcomed.

[Soikona]

Agreed, Anthem set bar so low with systems that I literally have this sick desire to take a look at a game that manages to do the "hold my beer" thing and lower it.

So maybe it weakens my argument, but overall BFA is a mature and decent game far from being a wreck people try to pretend it is.

I do agree, I have stopped playing though myself. I think after 11 ish years of playing I am done. Still keeping updated as I enjoy the story!

[Mighty Tim]

I think it is important to have them keep trying to do new things, both because expansions need new features and because in process they can discover pretty awesome stuff.

Best example is M+ - they tried that out and it was legit great. WoW today is a result of many trials and failures over the years where good stuff is retained and less good stuff is either discarded or reused in some other fashion.

Besides, some ideas are good, but then they sort of fall in implementation. For example, all in all, IE is a great idea - it could be like WoW's version of Greater Rifts, but its first version is pretty lukewarm. This is one system I do want them to iterate on, because I can see why they thought it's awesome.

There is also example of Artifact from Legion, where it started a bit wonky, but ended up being legit good system. BFA tried to evolve it but fell short due to various issues and maybe in 8.2 they will take a step back to Legion version, but again this was something new that has a ton of potential, even if initially it was not welcomed.

The problem is different players like different systems. Artifacts for example beyond transmog fodder to me is a system for idiots who want to do nothing but grind brain dead content.

Mythic plus is just horribly tuned dungeons to try and pretend progression outside of raiding isn't dead.

WoW simply tried to eat the whole pie rather then focusing on a single slice so now they are throwing up subs in the bathroom.

[kamuimac]

I don't understand people that can be so against changes. Does people really want the game to stand still forever and never evolve?
So things changes, everything changes. I do enjoy every expansion because they are different, not every may had the best systems.
But i like when the developers are going out of their comfort zone and try new things and new systems, and not just stay in the past.

yes there are some people like this . mentaly stuck 15 years ago when most of them were in school happy without any worries being able to play wow all evenings .

instead moving on with their lives they are still stuck mentaly in "basements" and refuse to move on.

and few youtubers/twitch streamers wanting quick $$$$ , capitalising on those people

[Zyrinx]

Oh good this thread is back.

Also, this:

This expansion shows that non existent class depth can be the deciding factor when playing WoW. Bad class design is a characteristic of BfA.

Remove the Warmode ability toggle, solve problem, profit.

[Zequill]

Being negative is the new thread. Just think about the worst new movie or the worst new video game according to the internet and I'm sure you will answer with stuff that make a lot of money, not because they are as bad as the internet say, but because they are in fact pretty good.

A bunch of hater on youtube and their edgelord follower should not be seen as the majority.

[owbu]

Mythic+ was a no-brainer for a company that re-hashes the same content on different difficulty levels with minor changes.

They make less and less content these days after settings up systems like World Quests and Mythic+. Look how they're re-using Legion Invasions.

Low effort garbage.

This seems to imply that we used to have enough dungeons and quests to last us through the expansion and then Blizzard designed M+, so that they could cut their art team to bits and make us run through the same dungeons again and again.

In reality, the art team could never keep up with the rate in which we consume content. The amount of content per expansion has been relativly stable over the years. Blizzard is just inventing systems to make running the same dungeon over and over again more interesting than it was during Vanillas super low drop rates, or BCs badges or Wrathes valorpoint system (which are all designed to solve the exact same problem).
Now our dungeons scale in difficulty and rotate through some different perks every week, instead of just being the exact same dungeon every week. It's not perfect, but it's definetely more engaging than the past iterations.

- - - Updated - - -

Mythic+ was a no-brainer for a company that re-hashes the same content on different difficulty levels with minor changes.

They make less and less content these days after settings up systems like World Quests and Mythic+. Look how they're re-using Legion Invasions.

Low effort garbage.

This seems to imply that we used to have enough dungeons and quests to last us through the expansion and then Blizzard designed M+, so that they could cut their art team to bits and make us run through the same dungeons again and again.

In reality, the art team could never keep up with the rate in which we consume content. The amount of content per expansion has been relativly stable over the years. Blizzard is just inventing systems to make running the same dungeon over and over again more interesting than it was during Vanillas super low drop rates, or BCs badges or Wrathes valorpoint system (which are all designed to solve the exact same problem).
Now our dungeons scale in difficulty and rotate through some different perks every week, instead of just being the exact same dungeon every week. It's not perfect, but it's definetely more engaging than the past iterations.

[Ztranger]

The forums are full of negativity, you'll get used to it to some degree.

[owbu]

Mythic+ was a no-brainer for a company that re-hashes the same content on different difficulty levels with minor changes.

They make less and less content these days after settings up systems like World Quests and Mythic+. Look how they're re-using Legion Invasions.

Low effort garbage.

This seems to imply that we used to have enough dungeons and quests to last us through the expansion and then Blizzard designed M+, so that they could cut their art team to bits and make us run through the same dungeons again and again.

In reality, the art team could never keep up with the rate in which we consume content. The amount of content per expansion has been relativly stable over the years. Blizzard is just inventing systems to make running the same dungeon over and over again more interesting than it was during Vanillas super low drop rates, or BCs badges or Wrathes valorpoint system (which are all designed to solve the exact same problem).
Now our dungeons scale in difficulty and rotate through some different perks every week, instead of just being the exact same dungeon every week. It's not perfect, but it's definetely more engaging than the past iterations.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Wonder how long it will take this time.

You couldn't just let this thread die?

[Dunachar]

I don't understand people that can be so against changes.

Oh, please.

People aren't against changes per se. People are against stupid changes.

[cparle87]

Did you forget that people in this game hated change so much, they actually got Blizzard to go back to developing vanilla?

The devs left their comfort zone long time ago. All that mattered and actually made WoW great are gone.

I think you're using that metaphor incorrectly. If it was as you said the devs wouldn't be trying new things and experimenting, they could just keep doing things that were successful in the past hoping it would be successful again.

[Depakote]

WoD is good for xmog farming. I'll give it that!

Warlords of Draenor in m honest and likely unpopular opinion was the last good expansion even if there are multiple plot holes that I do not like. It did dungeons right with challenge modes AND regular/heroic ones, did PvP right with decent class design and Ashran, while there were I think maybe 3 total raids during the expansion they were done well with mechanics that made you think and weren't overly challenging to most of the people who played then. I don't get why so many people shit on this expansion like it's so horrible. Legion is where it all stated to get crappy with class skills being gutted and them being attached to that stupid artifact.

[Nadiru]

I'm not negative on WoW, but none of my friends are playing it, and I'd rather play a game with my friends than without.

[Gaidax]

Oh, please.

People aren't against changes per se. People are against stupid changes.

Hindsight 20/20.

Point is that a lot of changes need to be tried out to even know whether they are good or not. If you deconstruct many not successful systems, you can see in the core that there was a really cool idea behind it, but it was either too difficult to fully implement or simply ended doing something less predictable.

[Soon-TM]

Not every change is good. In this case with WOW's recent direction its the equivalent of changing the wheel into a square .

The problem and complaints are not because they try "new things". Its about how those new things are tuned. Island expeditions , warfronts even world quests could be a lot more bearable with design focused more on player enjoyment than for extra time spent ingame for the investor stats. Every facet of Bfa reeks of this. Make everything as tedious, rng and fun capped as possible so you don't run out of that non existent content too soon. THank god it backfired back into their stupid greedy faces and all whos left playing is some clueless play 2h a week casuals and store whales.

As long as these stick to the game (and raidloggers, especially mythic, albeit for other reasons), the highups couldn't care less about the state of the game.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Oh, please.

People aren't against changes per se. People are against stupid changes.

And what constitutes a stupid change is wholly subjective most of the times.

Just the usual case of people believing the world revolves around their asshole thinking that they've got it figured out. Meanwhile the world keeps spinning on and franchises die or live based on how many enjoy them enough to keep them going.

[Astalnar]

I think you're using that metaphor incorrectly. If it was as you said the devs wouldn't be trying new things and experimenting, they could just keep doing things that were successful in the past hoping it would be successful again.

I don't think so. The new blood always thinks they know better. They do not follow the internal vision, but are trying to enforce their own direction. You can see the synthesis of this approach in their dealing with Sylvanas. They're setting her up for SoO 2.0.

[Aleksej89]

Changes that BFA made are almost universally bad and horrendous.

Prime example being the class design, completely ruined classes due to extreme over-pruning of abilities.