Glass cannon is dead for raids, we are essentially an intellect buff now

[Natureseer]

its really unfortunate how bad mages are rn. but at least people do bring 1 for the buff, i think most guilds would rather use a scroll than bring a warrior welcome 2 bfa

[Clozer]

As a pure dps class with the lowest dps from all ranged classes you don't get to enter high m+ stones or serious raid groups unless they need int buff.
How come 4 ranged specs like Afflilock, SPriest, Boomkin and Enh Shaman can be top tier, but Mages should be OK to not be on the chart at all?

Neither reasonable nor fine.

Pure dps? How does that even matter.. Besides that mage is s-tier in m+ for casters(in fact mages have higher m+ scores than ANY other caster). So you are not top tier in raids and drama is big.

If you are such a competitive player you shouldnt worry about stuff like this and just roll fotm. Like everyone else does who's somewhat competitive

[Sageless]

So what's your issue? Playstyle or numbers? If mage was in top 3 im 100% certain you wouldnt complain. Guys always seem to have gameplay issues if it's in fact they just unreasonable think they deserve to be top 3 number wise.

The issue is the combination of playstyle and number:

- For competitive players the numbers are really important, so the current gaping abyss between the top of the dps (ranged) classes and mages means the only option is rerolling and making sure you aren't the last raiding mage in your raid team to do so.

- For more casual players the numbers are still important, but not as important. But rather playstyle is the most important part. Numbers are nice, and competing for top spots is still important, but enjoying playing your character is even more important.

So the current situation is not fun for either group in regards to raiding. And the worst part is that there are no changes that would smooth out gameplay coming. Now there is a chance that the essences somehow boost Mage dps more than any other class and competitive players will still use their Mage, but the playstyle will stay the same. Personally I am levelling a new Warlock and getting it ready for the new raid. "Luckily" there is more than enough time to get everything done before the new content comes in.

Now if you are into competitive Mythic+ and you are deadset on playing a ranged class than Frost mage is your top choice. PVP I have no idea as I haven't touched that part of the game since TBC, so can't comment on that.

[Dakara]

Pure dps? How does that even matter.. Besides that mage is s-tier in m+ for casters(in fact mages have higher m+ scores than ANY other caster). So you are not top tier in raids and drama is big.

If you are such a competitive player you shouldnt worry about stuff like this and just roll fotm. Like everyone else does who's somewhat competitive

The reason why Pure DPS matters is because every class should have a "desirable spec" for raid groups (Mythic+ is a balance nightmare due to 36 specs and 5 slots).
Mythic Raids have 20 Spots, there are 12 classes and 36 specs.
On my Paladin I could fall back to Healing if Ret isn't desirable due too many Melee
On my Shaman I could Ele/Enhance if the guild doesn't want a Resto
On my Druid I can swap between all 4 roles as the balance pendulum moves each one in and out of favor.
On my Monk I can spec MW if again, there's too many Melee.

On my Mage? I have 3 specs that effectively do the same thing as each other just with different color pixels. We have no Split Cleave/Aoe Spec like Locks do with Affliction. If I want to Cleave at all, I need to spec for it reducing boss damage.
Our most effective ST specs all use ROP which requires no movement for 10 seconds... something modern encounters rarely allow and is often unpredictable.
Mages are brought for INT, to the point their spec almost doesn't matter, so long as they don't Ignite the raid on Unat.

Now I don't mind the design philosophy for Mages, although the specs are a bit stale. The real issue is, they don't fit in the current games encounter models. The PvE endgame has evolved from Pathwork fights to split cleave, constant movement encounters and mages haven't kept up. They were in a good position for so long, (it's true, they were) that they got very little attention from the Dev's and are now suffering from it.

As for not being competitive, the problem is (and always has been) the game is full of mediocre players who look at the Meta's and insist on copying it for the Normal Guild or +5 Group. Doesn't effect me personally as I've got a decent guild, but many players play WOW in the PUG world these days and it does effect them.

[Lollis]

90th, Dazar'alor.



Purple Line: 1st
Green Line: 6th
Yellow Line: Arcane (12th out of 24)
Blue Line: Frost (16th)
Red Line: Fire (19th)

Paladin is 11th
Monk is 18th
Warrior is 13th & 24th
Death Knight is 21st & 23rd

Every other class has at least one spec above the half way point for DPS

Everything at Fire and below needs bringing up, Arms and somewhat Unholy need it significantly.
Everything at Retribution and above needs bringing down significantly, especially anything above Outlaw (8th)

There is a bigger gap between 5th and 12th than there is between 12th and 24th, that is just ridiculous.

[Vynestra]

90th, Dazar'alor.



Purple Line: 1st
Green Line: 6th
Yellow Line: Arcane (12th out of 24)
Blue Line: Frost (16th)
Red Line: Fire (19th)

Paladin is 11th
Monk is 18th
Warrior is 13th & 24th
Death Knight is 21st & 23rd

Every other class has at least one spec above the half way point for DPS

Everything at Fire and below needs bringing up, Arms and somewhat Unholy need it significantly.
Everything at Retribution and above needs bringing down significantly, especially anything above Outlaw (8th)

There is a bigger gap between 5th and 12th than there is between 12th and 24th, that is just ridiculous.

And arcane doesn't have a ton of parses on M, since most play frost, and due to arcanes shitty playstyle as well as it being highly dependent on certain trinkets to do really well, it's skewed higher than it is for average mages.

I'd also recommend looking at 75th rather than 90th, but either way mages are poo.

[Lollis]

And arcane doesn't have a ton of parses on M, since most play frost, and due to arcanes shitty playstyle as well as it being highly dependent on certain trinkets to do really well, it's skewed higher than it is for average mages.

I'd also recommend looking at 75th rather than 90th, but either way mages are poo.

All brackets are remarkably similar until you get to like 60th and below, I could only be bothered doing one of them.

[Fayenoor]

Anyone have 8.2 Sim link?

[Nitros14]

Fire mage with memory of lucid essence sure feels good right now.

[Skylarking]

Fire mage with memory of lucid essence sure feels good right now.

It really does. Constantly ripping aggro off pug tanks. It will get fixed though. Fun always gets fixed.

[Nitros14]

It really does. Constantly ripping aggro off pug tanks. It will get fixed though. Fun always gets fixed.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../21#dataset=90 I mean we're still not better than Warlocks. We're close though, so a nerf is almost assuredly incoming while warlocks remain untouched.

[Exkrementor]

So you have bad damage like shadow, ele, ret, enhancer and windwalker for the last 14 years but get brought to the raid anyway because of some op buff? yeah, mages are still blizzards farvourites.
The only class that has less reasons to cry are warlocks.

[lockybalboa]

Wow good to see fire is the actually the top spec now, hope they don't nerf it. We are still middle of the pack.

[Trumpcat]

Oh, shut the hug up about something Mage being fun or you will alert the Blizzard anti-fun detector!

They consistently and deliberately make sure nothing regarding classes is fun in BfA, so keep it quiet!

[Fayenoor]

Oh, shut the hug up about something Mage being fun or you will alert the Blizzard anti-fun detector!

They consistently and deliberately make sure nothing regarding classes is fun in BfA, so keep it quiet!

Hotfixed and nerfed. Fun is overrated.

Developers' note: The Minor Power on Memory of Lucid Dreams has a custom implementation for Fire Mages and how it interacts with Fire Blast charges. However, this wound up being too strong relative to other Essences' Minor Powers. As such we're reducing its proc rate by 33% for Fire Mages, which should keep this as a very strong option to use in the Minor Slot, but much closer to the potency of other Minor Powers.

Really, really curious which dev tests/plays mages and how/why they think mages are in the right place.

[Realtalk]

Really, really curious which dev tests/plays mages and how/why they think mages are in the right place.

[Skylarking]

Well, it was fun while it lasted, i guess. Back to frost unless arcane is lookin any good...

[lockybalboa]

Fire is not dead, it is just a nerf to the minor trait. The spec is still competitive.

[Lulbalance]

Fire is not dead, it is just a nerf to the minor trait. The spec is still competitive.

it's still really strong.

[munkeyinorbit]

It really does. Constantly ripping aggro off pug tanks. It will get fixed though. Fun always gets fixed.

Fun for mage. Not fun for tank heal and melee. 'BLIZZ ALWAYS NERFS FUN' That's why people hate mages.