Lore Team Has Let Us Down This Xpac

[Benedictu]

This xpac has no lore. We're just calmly going about our grindy world quests to unlock allied races as there's supposedly some war or something going on?

Who is our final boss? What are we fighting for. Supposedly Sylvanas is evil, but ok... she burned the tree a long time ago. What's her end goal? Nobody knows. Anduin is useless. Jaina has some good cut scenes but she's still emotional, ineffective Jaina. What is the point of this xpac lore-wise?

I feel like lore team completely dropped the ball on this. The player feels no connection to the story, other than just tediously grinding out stuff until the next patch comes out.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

It has lore. The problem is this expansion has tried to tell two directly competing stories, without cluing us into how these competing storylines end up shaking out.

It's so insanely easy to just black out and forget this expansion has anything to do with how Sargeras stabbed Azeroth, because unless you're farming Champions of Azeroth rep you just are never exposed to that problem in Kul'tiras and Zandalar. Where most of what you're exposed to is Faction War with a seasoning of Old Gods a'la MoP 2.0.

Also I just realized this expansion is telling three different major stories, and a fourth is probably about to be added in 8.2.

[Benedictu]

That's true. I only play Ally, so I really don't know what's going on horde-wise, other than super evil Sylv burned our tree. I know Saurrfang and Baine are stepping up... sort of. On the Alliance side, nothing is happening. Anduin is doing nothing. Jaina is Jaina. That's it. That's not lore.

[Nyel]

It has lore. The problem is this expansion has tried to tell two directly competing stories, without cluing us into how these competing storylines end up shaking out.

It's so insanely easy to just black out and forget this expansion has anything to do with how Sargeras stabbed Azeroth, because unless you're farming Champions of Azeroth rep you just are never exposed to that problem in Kul'tiras and Zandalar. Where most of what you're exposed to is Faction War with a seasoning of Old Gods a'la MoP 2.0.

Also I just realized this expansion is telling three different major stories, and a fourth is probably about to be added in 8.2.

Well, just hundred times worse. The faction war in MoP wasn't the greatest but you could feel it. And with the Shas you had a direct effect on the world caused by that conflict. The BfA faction war is pitiful at best. The writing is absolutely horrible and doesn't make any sense except Sylvanas is doubling down on her madness and most of the other leaders are a snooze fest par excellence.

If we're honest the faction war sucked from the day on they announced it. We knew they would ruin it with horrible writing and we were right.

[Benedictu]

Well, just hundred times worse. The faction war in MoP wasn't the greatest but you could feel it. And with the Shas you had a direct effect on the world caused by that conflict. The BfA faction war is pitiful at best. The writing is absolutely horrible and doesn't make any sense except Sylvanas is doubling down on her madness and most of the other leaders are a snooze fest par excellence.

If we're honest the faction war sucked from the day on they announced it. We knew they would ruin it with horrible writing and we were right.

Yes. I feel like the lore of MOP was lovingly crafted. I still think it's behind vanilla, TBC and WOTLK, but there was lore. In BFA the player just has no connection to the story... at all. We are supposed to hate the alternate faction but how? Why? It has to be beyond Sylvanas burning the tree. It never really got beyond that.

[Donald Hellscream]

Yes. I feel like the lore of MOP was lovingly crafted. I still think it's behind vanilla, TBC and WOTLK, but there was lore. In BFA the player just has no connection to the story... at all. We are supposed to hate the alternate faction but how? Why? It has to be beyond Sylvanas burning the tree. It never really got beyond that.

Behind Vanilla? Vanilla barely had a coherent story to speak of.

[Sorshen]

It has lore. It's just that it's so bad.

[Verdugo]

Behind Vanilla? Vanilla barely had a coherent story to speak of.

Exactly. More they try, more fail it gets.

[Benedictu]

Behind Vanilla? Vanilla barely had a coherent story to speak of.

I humbly disagree. Vanilla did tell a story. There was a real reason we fought Molten Core and BWD. Nax was introduced with a lot of story and in-game lore. Now we just queue and take out Jaina, of all people. Why? Is that good lore design? Nope.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's true. I only play Ally, so I really don't know what's going on horde-wise, other than super evil Sylv burned our tree. I know Saurrfang and Baine are stepping up... sort of. On the Alliance side, nothing is happening. Anduin is doing nothing. Jaina is Jaina. That's it. That's not lore.

If it makes you feel better Horde have no idea what’s going on either because blizzard thinks it’s clever to not tell you any endgame of any character.

[Queen of Hamsters]

As in every expansion then, at least as long as it remains relevant.

What else is new. Worshipping Classic, TBC and WOTLK for its story is laughable at best.

MoP on the other hand, but even that one was heavily hated upon and still is "cuz pandas". There's no winning. WoD had some good moments, only to then be entirely squandered (Warlord loot pinatas) and abandoned. Alternate timeline rarely works for a reason, but if they'd stuck with it they could more than likely have made it work in the campy style that is and always has been WoW lore.

As of MoP and Legion, they're at least trying harder to tell the story in-game rather than through external sources, which is worthy of praise. They just need to polish their delivery and writing. I'm in no shape or form a professional myself so speaking from entirely subjective views here. I know for a fact that a lot of people whom previously never cared about lore, now not only know what's going on but care as well.

Pro tip though: Keeping up with said lore is kind of key to understanding the why's and when's. Not keeping up with it (because you can ignore it even when it's played out in-game) and then going "I don't know why this boss is to be killed, shoddy writing much?" is sort of a dick move. To yourself, the developers laugh all the way to the bank.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Well, just hundred times worse. The faction war in MoP wasn't the greatest but you could feel it. And with the Shas you had a direct effect on the world caused by that conflict. The BfA faction war is pitiful at best. The writing is absolutely horrible and doesn't make any sense except Sylvanas is doubling down on her madness and most of the other leaders are a snooze fest par excellence.

If we're honest the faction war sucked from the day on they announced it. We knew they would ruin it with horrible writing and we were right.

Honestly the BFA War has weight to me thanks to stuff like Saurfang and Baine.

And if Blizz came out tomorrow and admitted the Old Gods are actually 9.0 content, and the faction war is supposed to be the focus here, I'd be entirely fine with it.

The irony is they're trying to avoid sabotaging the expansion by announcing the end-boss early, but are sabotaging it by making the lore that much muddier.

[MoanaLisa]

There is plenty of lore in this expansion. At present it's more difficult to see because the story they are telling may well only pay off at the end of the expansion or even continue into the next one. Instead of discrete short stories strung together in a loose arc you're getting something more like a serial. I'm not a fan of the story this expansion as I think it's unsubtle and overwrought but they are trying something a bit different this time around.

It's hard to judge until we get to the end.

[Donald Hellscream]

I humbly disagree. Vanilla did tell a story. There was a real reason we fought Molten Core and BWD. Nax was introduced with a lot of story and in-game lore. Now we just queue and take out Jaina, of all people. Why? Is that good lore design? Nope.

Maybe because she is the Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras and the Alliance just killed the former ruler of Zandalar, I know its shocking that Talanji wants to avenge her father but the reason why we fight Jaina is pretty fucking obvious. Even as alliance since it is made abundantly clear its a flashback told through the eyes of an alliance survivor.
While G'huun may be a bit obscure for Alliance players since they never really deal with the Blood trolls beyond establishing the outpost in Nazmir, it is made quite clear that G'huun is the purest avatar of the old gods desire to corrupt everything, so basicly we have to stop G'huun or the slugboi is gonna turn the entire world all gooey.

Its really no different than going into Molten Core and pushing Ragnaros back into the Firelands or killing Nefarian because he is a generic moustache twirling villain ( Not that most WoW villains divert too much from that trope )

[Benedictu]

I feel like maybe we're going to fight Azshara? But who cares. She is a wonderful lore character, but we have seen nothing about her other than a few quests. This is why WOTLK lore team was so successful. The lore of Arthas was so intertwined into everything we did. We knew everything about his story. If Azshara is a raid boss, so what? What does that have to do with this supposed war between factions that doesn't really exist in game?

[Khaza-R]

I actually like the faction war. I just wish we didn't have another "the Horde needs to find its soul" moment. The Horde has been finding it soul since WarCraft III : Reign of Chaos. Time for the search to be over.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I feel like maybe we're going to fight Azshara? But who cares. She is a wonderful lore character, but we have seen nothing about her other than a few quests. This is why WOTLK lore team was so successful. The lore of Arthas was so intertwined into everything we did. We knew everything about his story. If Azshara is a raid boss, so what? What does that have to do with this supposed war between factions that doesn't really exist in game?

I didn't know shit about Arthas without looking at external sources suggested to me by in-game lore nerds.

There's a reason why that was a term. Those who didn't know the lore and never would, and those that did care enough to look it up outside the gameplay realm. I remember seeing Arthas now and then, briefly, during my first leveling journey but that's it.
Telling the story cohesively in-game with focus on making sure it's clear to anyone playing unless they literally make an effort to skip, is a rather new design choice.

[StationaryHawk]

This xpac has no lore.

It does, regardless of the quality.

[rohoz]

I actually like the faction war. I just wish we didn't have another "the Horde needs to find its soul" moment. The Horde has been finding it soul since WarCraft III : Reign of Chaos. Time for the search to be over.

eh, it's better than the "can do no wrong, goodbois forever" of the alliance. Alliance side is literally chock full of warmongers, but because manduin has a vagina it's all good. Alliance had their sights on war since the broken shore, and their canon dickishness is very rarely mentioned (nightborne joined the horde literally because tyrande was a cunt)

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It does, regardless of the quality.

you aint gonna change that guys opinion, he thinks cartoon villian arthas in wotlk questing was a good experience.

"i only let u win bc i wanted my army11!"

[Benedictu]

I didn't know shit about Arthas without looking at external sources suggested to me by in-game lore nerds.

There's a reason why that was a term. Those who didn't know the lore and never would, and those that did care enough to look it up outside the gameplay realm. I remember seeing Arthas now and then, briefly, during my first leveling journey but that's it.
Telling the story cohesively in-game with focus on making sure it's clear to anyone playing unless they literally make an effort to skip, is a rather new design choice.

I don't agree with that... at all. I didn't look anything up. I just quested and did my thing and it led me to knowing the story of Arthas. I even skipped most of the cut scenes. You cannot argue that the story of Arthas was well played in WOTLK by lore team. Why is the story of Anduin, Jaina, and Sylv so tepid now? They are people with jobs that we pay for. We should be critical of their shitty lore-telling, though I think they're probably hamstrung. Creativity is not something that seems to be valued by the top brass these days.