(SPOILERS!!!) 8.2 PTR summary

[Realitytrembles]

Lorthemar/Saurfang/Thrall united? Heehee.

Buh-bye, Lich Queen.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So does this all but confirm that we will get a 8 .3 patch with N 'Zoth being the final boss ???

Ugh ......

[Raetary]

So does this all but confirm that we will get a 8 .3 patch with N 'Zoth being the final boss ???

Ugh ......

That we are getting patch 8.3 was never in question.

[Martymark]

gave her a chance to back down andnshe just went for him causing him to retaliate doesn't make sense to you?

I see, so capital city guards all deserve to die if they guard the capital from invaders? Good to know.

[KrakHed]

Both Saurfang and Baine have killed their own soldiers to benefit the Alliance, Saurfang has also taken part in one more genocide than Sylvanas. so unless they'll mercifully die and improve the Horde immeasurably by their absence, you're shit out of luck if those are your criteria.

Is Saurfang currently engaged in genocidal behavior or intent?

[Super Dickmann]

Is Saurfang currently engaged in genocidal behavior or intent?

"How many genocides have you done for me lately?"

[Syegfryed]

Both Saurfang and Baine have killed their own soldiers to benefit the Alliance

they didn't "hey let me kill those horde soldiers in the benefit of the alliance"

they did "i will kill those retarded who didn't give up and are trying to kill me"

[Super Dickmann]

they didn't "hey let me kill those horde soldiers in the benefit of the alliance"

they did "i will kill those retarded who didn't give up and are trying to kill me"

Baine killed people to free Derek and hand him over to the Alliance. He was directly motivated by helping the Alliance. Saurfang kills people to free Baine alongside Jaina. That those people didn't give up when some yobs showed up telling them to sabotage their own faction is kind of obvious.

[Syegfryed]

Baine killed people to free Derek and hand him over to the Alliance. He was directly motivated by helping the Alliance

And again, he spared anyone who give up, he only kill those who were eager to die killing him

Saurfang kills people to free Baine alongside Jaina. That those people didn't give up when some yobs showed up telling them to sabotage their own faction is kind of obvious.

when thrall show up you immediately drop the weapons, is their choice to die or not, its their choice to die by the formol queen

[Super Dickmann]

And again, he spared anyone who give up, he only kill those who were eager to die killing him

I don't see your point here. That he didn't kill people who surrendered doesn't mean he didn't attack them to benefit the Alliance and then killed the ones who didn't surrender also to benefit the Alliance.

when thrall show up you immediately drop the weapons, is their choice to die or not, its their choice to die by the formol queen

Thrall is just a regular member of the Horde at this point, he doesn't have any legacy position. Back when he was Warchief, he also brained people for treason. The only difference is that Thrall had higher IQ so he just killed them on the spot like Burx instead of putting them in elaborate deathtraps.

[Syegfryed]

I don't see your point here. That he didn't kill people who surrendered doesn't mean he didn't attack them to benefit the Alliance and then killed the ones who didn't surrender also to benefit the Alliance.

he didn't attack then first, they attack him first

just because their deaths mean some kind of benefit for the alliance don't mean he did with that intent

Thrall is just a regular member of the Horde at this point, he doesn't have any legacy position.

for all he did he will never be a regular member, he was not warchief but commanded all the shit in wod too, yes there is legacy shit going on

The only difference is that Thrall had higher IQ so he just killed them on the spot like Burx instead of putting them in elaborate deathtraps.

i mean, she did on purpose as a trap to get then, i pretty sure they will say she knew they would succeed in saving him cause this is going to lead to her great plan

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't see your point here. That he didn't kill people who surrendered doesn't mean he didn't attack them to benefit the Alliance and then killed the ones who didn't surrender also to benefit the Alliance.



Thrall is just a regular member of the Horde at this point, he doesn't have any legacy position. Back when he was Warchief, he also brained people for treason. The only difference is that Thrall had higher IQ so he just killed them on the spot like Burx instead of putting them in elaborate deathtraps.

Think of how much better we'd be off if Sylvanas just brained Baine then and there. Sure the story would be shit but it would actually be a little different in that Vol'jin, I mean Baine would actually die.

[Super Dickmann]

he didn't attack then first, they attack him first

just because their deaths mean some kind of benefit for the alliance don't mean he did with that intent

I don't think Baine was enthused about killing them or anything, that's not what I'm saying. The thing is that Baine was doing what he did to help the Alliance and while he was okay with letting those who surrendered go, he was also fine with killing the Horde soldiers there. And when he goes in he first declares that hte soldiers are 'fanatically loyal' so he was ready to kill them from the start.

for all he did he will never be a regular member, he was not warchief but commanded all the shit in wod too, yes there is legacy shit going on

Thrall has influence because of his history but no legal power over them. It's like with the Kor'kron he confronted in Mists. Except he tried to reason with those before they told him to fuck off because he was no longer Warchief.

i mean, she did on purpose as a trap to get then, i pretty sure they will say she knew they would succeed in saving him cause this is going to lead to her great plan

Yes, but she's a moron, so you shouldn't take it very seriously. Besides, they don't know it's her plan and kill Horde soldiers anyway.

@Friendlyimmolation

She would be doing an invaluable service to the Horde if she killed Baine. The writers can't risk her gaining popularity.

[Syegfryed]

I don't think Baine was enthused about killing them or anything, that's not what I'm saying. The thing is that Baine was doing what he did to help the Alliance and while he was okay with letting those who surrendered go, he was also fine with killing the Horde soldiers there. And when he goes in he first declares that hte soldiers are 'fanatically loyal' so he was ready to kill them from the start.

i still say he was not "helping the alliance" she just tried to save the dude and send to his family, thats hardly '"help the alliance faction" but help jaina as a friend, especially the way she was handling him with all the mind control and shit

you can say "but helping jaina by elimination you help alliance" but this way we are just going around semantics

Thrall has influence because of his history but no legal power over them. It's like with the Kor'kron he confronted in Mists. Except he tried to reason with those before they told him to fuck off because he was no longer Warchief.

in the horde if you have power, actual power, you end having legal power

Yes, but she's a moron, so you shouldn't take it very seriously. Besides, they don't know it's her plan and kill Horde soldiers anyway.

her plan is prob something related to azshara/old gods, im not gonna say its obvious, but its heavy implied, war in open sea, azshara realm things were clearly going to places, maybe she is planing to put everyone in a place and sacrifice, who knows.

[formerShandalay]

<snip>

her plan is prob something related to azshara/old gods, im not gonna say its obvious, but its heavy implied, war in open sea, azshara realm things were clearly going to places, maybe she is planing to put everyone in a place and sacrifice, who knows.

I was thinking this after I read the part where Nathanos says your loyalty will be tested even more and to wait till you are summoned. Maybe I've played too much swtor^^, but that kind of sounded to me like she was currently away doing stuff and at some point she needs some willing sacrifices. Or unwilling ones for that matter. I'm just curious if they'll let people go through with sacrificing themselves if they stay loyal to Sylvanas up to that point. I mean, Afrasiabi said he was all for making people delete their characters if they took the wrong choice, but his team was against it^^

[Super Dickmann]

i still say he was not "helping the alliance" she just tried to save the dude and send to his family, thats hardly '"help the alliance faction" but help jaina as a friend, especially the way she was handling him with all the mind control and shit

In the process he was protecting Jaina from assassination and Jaina is a member of the Alliance, so it's pretty cut and dry. And this is Baine we're talking about after all, who already tipped Jaina off at the cost of putting the people attacking Theramore and risk and his Barrens shenanigans that really don't merit going over yet again. That his intent was to help the Alliance is a given. We can argue that he conceived of it as doing it for reasons of personal honor, but that included helping the Alliance and killing Horde soldiers, which is what's discussed here.

As for Thrall, I disagree. The Horde aren't Sith. Power flows from the head honcho and if you cahllenge him you win, but just becuse you can kill his underlings doesn't grant you legitimacy. That's why Thrall tried to reason with the Kor'kron on the basis of his history before he fried them. They have historic reasons to consider his words, but no real obligation. Especially not if he's there to bail out a traitor and they have orders to the contary from the current Warchief.

her plan is prob something related to azshara/old gods, im not gonna say its obvious, but its heavy implied, war in open sea, azshara realm things were clearly going to places, maybe she is planing to put everyone in a place and sacrifice, who knows.

If you mean the bit about sending her fleet out, yeah, that's how I read it too. If she's totally enslaved by N'zoth then she's doing this to enable the PC to head there and free N'zoth. If she isn't, then I wager she knwos Azshara will pop up and is deliberately offering up her much smaller fleet in exchange for the larger one so she can even the scales. In the latter sense she succeeds since Bob tells us the war is waging worldwide after Azshara is defeated which is a turn around from losing on all fronts within weeks.

[Trassk]

I see, so capital city guards all deserve to die if they guard the capital from invaders? Good to know.

If capital city guards attack a long time member of a faction without question, and said faction member gave them a chance to stand aside, then yes, they made their choice.

[Friendlyimmolation]

If capital city guards attack a long time member of a faction without question (Who are running around with Alliance leaders), and said faction member gave them a chance to stand aside, then yes, they made their choice.

You missed a rather important part in an attempt to make a point.

[Syegfryed]

In the process he was protecting Jaina from assassination and Jaina is a member of the Alliance, so it's pretty cut and dry.

yeah but i like i said, his intent is not to help alliance, the faction alliance, but Jaina as a friend because the mind control and shit

his advice to theramore is way worse than this, that diretly help the alliance to make a proper defense

As for Thrall, I disagree. The Horde aren't Sith. Power flows from the head honcho and if you cahllenge him you win, but just becuse you can kill his underlings doesn't grant you legitimacy. That's why Thrall tried to reason with the Kor'kron on the basis of his history before he fried them. They have historic reasons to consider his words, but no real obligation. Especially not if he's there to bail out a traitor and they have orders to the contary from the current Warchief.

in the horde everything is about power over others by strength, you want the leadership that you have no rights on it? kill the other guy in a combat, you dessagre with him? fight him to see who is right.

he may have no "legal" power, because he is no warchief anymore, he still have a influence figure and have enough voice and power withing the horde to do the calls

If you mean the bit about sending her fleet out, yeah, that's how I read it too. If she's totally enslaved by N'zoth then she's doing this to enable the PC to head there and free N'zoth. If she isn't, then I wager she knwos Azshara will pop up and is deliberately offering up her much smaller fleet in exchange for the larger one so she can even the scales. In the latter sense she succeeds since Bob tells us the war is waging worldwide after Azshara is defeated which is a turn around from losing on all fronts within weeks.

thats prob what gonna happen, or something worse, im expecting always the worse, thats why baine scenario didn't surprise me

[KainneAbsolute]

8.3 will be more faction war. I dont think Jaina, Lorthemar, Genn, Anduin, Thrall and Saurfang will take their hand and defeat Sylvanas with their love.