So many spec's left out of Mythic plus

[Nitros14]

The idea that the extreme difference in results is only because the good players are exclusively playing the good specs is silly. There are very good players championing crappy specs. Spec balance is just more terrible than usual this tier.

[kamuimac]

I have been playing a lot of classes and specs. I really enjoy running keys only a 17-19 plus player around the 1.8k skill but I really enjoy it. The problem I am seeing is there are so many classes that don't even come close to Rogues, Demonhunters, Windwalkers a Protection Warriors. I am really speaking about Arcane, Fire, Sub rogues. The fury and arms warriors and survival hunters of the world.

I just wish they would stop nerfing classes that are fun and maybe help the classes that are underachieving. Honestly if mythic plus is going to be as popular as it seems going forward every class and spec should have options to help a group achieve whether through traits or talents to compete.

What you all think, I am suggesting fix what's lacking and leave what is good as is just give options for every class and personal spec a chance.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks

this happens when blizzard let logs and raider.io to run rampart for too long.

should have banned those ages ago.

[barackohmama]

I think if you go for competitive gaming you have to pick what's best. Same goes for super high ranked mobas. That's the way it is. You either play for fun or for beeing competitive.

And doesnt matter how closely balanced the specs are there will always be the best ones. Just accept it.

Always be the same best ones*

[Trend]

this happens when blizzard let logs and raider.io to run rampart for too long.

should have banned those ages ago.

Just such a stupid idea for so many reasons. I'm not even going to talk about how that would needlessly kill high level PUGing. Instead, I am going to address the absurdity of the concept as it relates to ignorance.

My friend plays four different kinds of tanks (over a long period of time.) After a run the other night on his guardian he said he wasn't going to tank on druid again in BfA no matter what. Why do you think that was kamulmac? You think it was because logs and raider.io told him he should not want to keep playing his druid? Or do you think maybe it's because guardian sucks ass right now and it's obvious to any decent player that you won't be able to hit keys as high as you would with a different tank with equal gear? That's obviously a rhetorical question because only an idiot would think that raider.io is the fundamental cause of people being unhappy about the imbalance.

Now let us say you are not smart enough to pick up on the relative strengths of classes and specs on your own without logs. Why would you not want to know? Why do you want to be ignorant? That does not make sense to me.

I think it is extremely rare that a good player has a problem with raider.io. I think the people crying are overwhelmingly bad players who do not have friends they play with and/or they want to get carried to get gear they do not deserve.

[MoanaLisa]

That comment used to be true, and it still would be if classes and specs were somewhat balanced.
I even said it multiple times in the past myself.

With as many specs in the game as there are--too many in my opinion--the only way to get to anything truly balanced for all types of fights and damage is to homogenize the shit out of classes until you can't tell them apart. I don't think that's better for the game.

[Mamushi]

Spec balance in M+ at higher key levels is just garbage right now, no way around it. Perfect balance can never be achieved but the current damage/utility discrepancy between the top and bottom specs is just too large. I doubt it would hurt anyone if Blizzard just applied flat damage buffs (either AoE or Single target depending on the spec) for the specs that are struggling not only in M+ but also in raids. Giving some small utility buffs to underused specs could also work, such as giving shroud to both arcane mages and survival hunters (mass invisibility and camouflage respectively). At this point I don't even care about homogenizing a bit more since you literally never even see some specs in groups.

[Nitros14]

Mass invisibility to arcane mage and mass camouflage to survival hunter is a good idea.

Therefore it won't happen.

[Sageless]

this happens when blizzard let logs and raider.io to run rampart for too long.

should have banned those ages ago.

Would rather they actually looked at those instead of them sticking their heads in the sand. Just look at Azerite, you could predict which traits where getting nerfed by going to bloodmallet and checking which ones were the best. It is just sad that 3rd party websites have a better understanding of the game than the developers and they need to rely on those to balance the game.

[Chillside]

There is much more under the surface, every single class right now is capable of comfortably completing +20-22 keys in time with no issues whatsoever, however, the fact that vast majority of players who tend to make groups are extremely narrow minded with very little knowledge about the game in general - makes it a little more difficult for somebody who isn't playing a "mainstream" class to pug a high key (highlighted pug, because not everybody has a luxury to have a stable m+ group ready to go on demand ), you just don't get invited regardless of your gear, score or raid progress ( which, we can argue about the fact that none of those things matter right now, because blizzard chose to keep spoonfeeding players, but that's a different topic ).
The problem is that this entire gearing system combined with horrible class balance led to the situation where ALOT of people who shouldn't be in a position to pick and choose who to invite to begin with, kind of being "in charge" and there is almost nothing you can do about it, you can have your own little guild or community or group of people who you keep playing with and that's great, but again, not everybody has that kind of luxury.
People usually bring up the fact that if you "grind" the keys enough and be patient with completing the keys "in order", like once you complete every single dungeon on a given level only then you try to go up... aand i've said this couple times already and i'll say it again, it's straight up bullshit, because 1. it only works for certain classes, 2. nobody will invite you for let's say +18 key if you have only completed +17 dungeons, even if you did +17 for every single one.

[drbatman]

I think asking most people to find 4 friends is more reasonable than pretending you can balance 30+ specs to all compete at top level.

Here is some food for thought as well, All specs cannot be good. If they were, they would just be regular old specs. You cannot have 'good' specs with out 'bad' specs. It is just how things work.

[Eazy]

Welp, it's probably because Sub Rogues sucks in M+.

[Arainie]

There is such a thing as getting reasonably close enough to where differences in potential don't matter nearly as much as differences in skill, though. I'd say 10% or better spread from best to worst is acceptable. 5% is ideal. WoW devs have been historically and colossally incompetent in this matter, though.

Historically they have been colossally competent at balancing specs compared to any other MMO on the entire market. Not to mention that most MMOs don't even provide damage meters to illustrate the difference in class performance, while WoW players whine about a 5-10% gap in raid performance.

I'll tell you some things that are needed to get spec balance in all types of content simultaneously. I don't even think this is close to enough.
- Remove HoTs, DoTs, Immunities
- Remove tank self-healing (or alternatively base each tank around self-healing)
- Remove ramp-up time and ensure all specs deal full damage right away
- Homogenize interrupts, stuns, CC, damage reduction cooldowns and ensure every class has one of each
- Homogenize utility spells, make sure at least 5 specs has each utility and that neither is overall better than another (good luck)
- Homogenize playstyles enough to ensure that each playstyle can deal with each type of encounter reasonably well (pure st, spread cleave, stacked AoE etc)
- Ensure that each dungeon and raid boss has punishing mechanics enforcing an even split of melee and ranged
- Ensure that each spec has a similar amount of rock-paper-scissor contestants in PvP (you'll still complain about 1v1 balance though)

What do you think WoW will end up as?
(This is my way of telling you that it's a horrible idea and that I hope they never ever do it. I went through Legion M+ as a priest so if anyone has experience with being bottom of the barrel I'd say I'm a good shout)

[Reyuna]

Mythic+ is great, it's the only real thing keeping me playing right now. I only play keys usually during the weekend or some evenings but I have a respectable 2.4k, I am aiming to time at least a 21 in all dungeons before the season is over. The thing that absolutely needs to happen is to buff most classes/specs to be competetive or seriously break Rogues, Resto Druids and especially Prot Wars. You will almost always build a team around these 3 and will generally fill in with second tier choices (if they're lucky). The thing that angers me the most is that you can have a good score and still get declined from a 20 just because you don't play the "correct" class. Most players even those 2k+ are generally terrible, do not know how to communicate and lack severe knowledge on which abilities they should be interupting and those that should be ignored, but it has been bred into their minds they should always have class/specs x/y/z in every group.

Im glad Prot Wars are being broken down, all tanks should be viable.. we needs all tank classes viable. Rogues need to be broken down too, they are far too versitile and useful to not take. Double CC, interupts, stuns, tricks AND shroud. Nonsense.

[Mokuna]

Dungeons were never meant to be competitive content, they're predictable, repeatable hundreds of times, have really simple mechanics, the only way to make them relevant is to tune them to stupidly high numbers and artificially make dungeon trash have a lot of unforgiving mechanics (1 shot if not interrupted spells or channels, heal to full spells etc)

Blizzard wanted a pve esport and raiding is incredibly bad at it, so they forced dungeons into an esport, the result is to be expected, everyone takes the same cookie cutter comps that can do things the fastest, with skips, massive aoe damage and big cheese.

The result is a terribly boring competition where you only see mirror matches of teams that did the dungeons thousands of times, hundreds on way higher difficulties than what's they're proposed, do more or less the same pulls, then you wait for one to fuck up a mechanic and die or do a messy pull and pull behind.

Of course this is streamed so the community thinks this is the way to go, even for lower keys, instead of embracing that wow can be an actual mmo and have variety.
In the end they aren't really wrong, high mythic + keys are useless, they bring nothing to the table, they're bland, and the best way to deal with them is either not deal with them at all, either play what's broken to do broken content.

[Daan]

The most annoying thing is that Blizzard isn't doing anything like class balance. Everybody sees the overpowered damage from Prot Warrior, everybody sees the huge dominance of Outlaw Rogue, everybody sees the poor state of DH and Guardian tank, but Blizzard is waiting until 8.2 because of MDI and Raider.io sh*t.

[Nitros14]

You guys are acting like it's still WoD or Legion and the top classes are within 10% of the bottom.

The gap is like 30%.

Yes some classes will always be on top but the bottom are really bad right now.

[Reyuna]

Raider.io will kill the game, it alienates people and makes them feel worthless because they don't play one of the small handful of meta classes.

[Deja Thoris]

Raider.io will kill the game, it alienates people and makes them feel worthless because they don't play one of the small handful of meta classes.

Dont be stupid. There always has been and always will be ways to disseminate this information. Blaming a tool and not its users is naive.

[Reyuna]

Dont be stupid. There always has been and always will be ways to disseminate this information. Blaming a tool and not its users is naive.

The tool enables retards however.

[quite an expert in wow]

A +20 can be done with any spec. So, keep on practicing.