Blizzard, apathy, and the Alliance

[Seylene]

Eh. they did the same formula they always do "Horde assault Alliance. Alliance return the favor by attacking a neutral entity and further weaken themselves to close the gap with the horde." Now they put the horde over the top and I think it's just worn on the longtime players to the point of not caring, when this big war should have been the big slugfest we all waited for. But it went from a horrible and insulting start to the same ol same ol. It's not just Alliance but this is a retread for the Horde players as well and no one is excited because well why would we be?

[rhorle]

I said there was peace. I didn't say there weren't conflicts. To "escalate" something you must do something worse than someone before you did. "Killing a king" doesn't nearly rise up to the level of "Burning thousands of civilians alive".

Lol. Okay. They were at peace but were fighting battles and moving major amounts of troops. Peace implies they are not fighting. I am not sure what your native language is that peace means actively fighting battles. And now we have the real proof that you will ignore any logic to make the Alliance the victim. Kicking the horde out of undercity and killing the troll king is in no way an escalation of the conflict?

Your ignoring of things still doesn't change the fact that the Alliance has been proactive and not just reactive. You ignore the entire reason why the War of Thorns happened. The Alliance was proactively spying on the Horde and moving troops to cut them off.

[cparle87]

I think the problem is less that the Alliance don't get cool cutscenes, and more that it shows where the priorities lie.

I mean, after playing both factions through several expansions it's been pretty obvious for a long time that the Horde are the ones who drive the faction war story. But for the Alliance to be so faceless and unremarkable in a story that's supposed to be about both factions is pretty frustrating. I wanted to see the Alliance change, maybe have some conflict, grow in identity and maybe show other sides of it than the "human king" angle.

But this is just an expansion about the Horde again. As it was last time, and as it always is when the faction conflict returns. This time around it doesn't even feel like they give enough of a shit about the Alliance to pretend to give them a story.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...ActHeroesReact

- - - Updated - - -

Lol. Okay. They were at peace but were fighting battles and moving major amounts of troops. Peace implies they are not fighting. I am not sure what your native language is that peace means actively fighting battles. And now we have the real proof that you will ignore any logic to make the Alliance the victim. Kicking the horde out of undercity and killing the troll king is in no way an escalation of the conflict?

Your ignoring of things still doesn't change the fact that the Alliance has been proactive and not just reactive. You ignore the entire reason why the War of Thorns happened. The Alliance was proactively spying on the Horde and moving troops to cut them off.

Up until the Battle of Undercity when Varian declared war on the Horde the two groups were technically at peace. That just meant there weren't full time engagements of the major factions. Warsong fought with the Silverwings over lumber. That wasn't all the orcs vs all the elves or all the Horde vs all the Alliance. It's been shown ingame that the individual members of the factions are given great leeway with what they do. So long as they obey when given direct orders the leadership will look the other way if they sell their blades to a group that attacks the other side.

[Eggroll]

Funny how you alliance fanboys are crying while we yet again get a crazy warchief bullshit plot

Wonder how you'd feel if you get your racial capital destroyed and all the citizens genocided without ever getting closure or revenge. Come back to us after that happens. Oh wait, it never will. How funny you horde fanboys are crying about nothing actually happening to you, while cheering for genocide.

[Ielenia]

Lol. Okay. They were at peace but were fighting battles and moving major amounts of troops. Peace implies they are not fighting. I am not sure what your native language is that peace means actively fighting battles.

And I don't know what is your native language to think that "peace" means "total and absolute lack of any sort of conflict". Peace and localized skirmishes can happen

And now we have the real proof that you will ignore any logic to make the Alliance the victim. Kicking the horde out of undercity and killing the troll king is in no way an escalation of the conflict?

I'd correct you and say the accurate term is "the Horde leading the Alliance into a trap in Undercity", but for the sake of argument: that was a reaction. A reaction to a senseless mass-murdering of innocents.

And then after that, but before the battle of Dazar'alor, we have the Horde invading Stormsong Valley, attacking a farming village, killing the villagers, impaling them onto walls...

Your ignoring of things...

Please stop projecting.

[rhorle]

And I don't know what is your native language to think that "peace" means "total and absolute lack of any sort of conflict". Peace and localized skirmishes can happen.

So Horde and Alliance forces fighting over Azerite in Sithilus. And major amounts of troops being sent to secure sithilus is a "localized skirmish"? Go ahead and look up the definition of peace. Here I will give you a link to ease the process https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/peace Definition 2 is the key one here.

The skirmishes are the first conflicts of the war. Even blizzard calls it a war. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_War#cite_note-bw-1

And then after that, but before the battle of Dazar'alor, we have the Horde invading Stormsong Valley, attacking a farming village, killing the villagers, impaling them onto walls...

So killing a king and how many citizens of a city is equal to a few villagers now? I am not projecting anything. You keep doing mental gymnastics in order to keep the alliance as the victim. You have ignored several things in order to keep the Alliance as reactive only. I am not ignoring anything.

Again. If the Alliance was not at war with the horde why did they move most of the Kalimdor forces to Sithilus to stop the horde? The moment they started fight over Azerite is when the war started. There were just no major escalations until the war of thorns. The Alliance and Horde were in open conflict before Teldrissal was burned. Why else would they be deploying major resources to "local skirmishes" if it wasn't open war? The Legion epilogue cinematic is all about showing the peace ending because of fighting over Azerite.

[Ielenia]

So Horde and Alliance forces fighting over Azerite in Sithilus. And major amounts of troops being sent to secure sithilus is a "localized skirmish"?

No, that's Sylvanas putting her war plans in motion.

So killing a king and how many citizens of a city is equal to a few villagers now?

Why are you implying zandalari civilians (which we don't know if any died) are more important than kul'tiran civilians? (Which we do know many were brutally killed)

You keep doing mental gymnastics in order to keep the alliance as the victim.

Says the guy implying the zandalari civilians are more important than kul'tiran civilians.

Again. If the Alliance was not at war with the horde why did they move most of the Kalimdor forces to Sithilus to stop the horde?

I'll have to re-read the novelas, as they explain why, but the gist of it was that Sylvanas fed false information to the Alliance spies in Orgrimmar.

[Lady Velvet]

I don't like the alliance because they always cry about stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are not cool!!!!!!

[rhorle]

No, that's Sylvanas putting her war plans in motion.

So she has war plans but is not at war. Okay. So not only is fighting several battles not war. Acting on war plans is not war.

Why are you implying zandalari civilians (which we don't know if any died) are more important than kul'tiran civilians? (Which we do know many were brutally killed)

Why are you implying that the are less important? And a full assault on a city has zero civilian casualties? Another example of you blinding yourself. A city in ruins. A king dead. A major defeat is just a reaction to a village having some villagers killed. Okay. You are definitely delusional. The alliance proactively attacked the zandalari. They were not even officially part of the horde but they still took measures to attack and neutralize them.

I'll have to re-read the novelas, as they explain why, but the gist of it was that Sylvanas fed false information to the Alliance spies in Orgrimmar.

So the alliance sent their troops to war at the wrong spot but you still deny they were at war? Major resources is localized skirmishes? Troops from the other side of the continent is small conflict? The war started over Azerite and the first battles were fought in sithilus. The burning of teldrissal was the first escalation of the war. But not the first battle as even you yourself admits.

[Aeula]

Both factions are fucked. The Horde can’t seem to do anything right without Thrall and the rest of the Alliance lending a hand.

[Serenais]

As I don't play Horde (sorry, I have the time for only one main), I do wonder how it looks from the other side.

On my side, subjectively, it seems like the Alliance is one of modestly important pieces in the Horde story. It feels like our stories don't get a conclusion, we just are told that the story has ended. I was told that we are the "Captain America faction" a few years back, but all we seem to do, is to do a talk for bonds in front of some backdrop, learn that sgt. Barnes was taken prisoner by the enemy, and then credits roll. And when something happens, it seems we need the Horde to not die to the Horde. Lately, it seems that the storyline that started with The War of Thorns and burning of Teldrassil is concluded by the existence of a warfront. I am very much not alone when I do not see that as appropriate conclusion.
In that aspect, it just feels, to an Alliance player, that the Alliance is an afterthought, necessary to sometimes push the Horde story foreward. I'm sure the Horde players have their own big complaints about their own story; I can see why they would be unhappy - there's another attrocity done by the Horde for very much no reason. There's another warchief going off the sanity cliff towards the deep end. There is yet another split in their faction. To be resolved by the same NPCs as the last time. From my point of view, it looks like the Alliance gets only the necessary tidbits so the story of the Horde can move forward. While the story of the Horde is turning in a spot, repeating the same old same old, which wasn't really that good in the first place.
In all honesty, what I would want, would be an Alliance story that is well written and has a satisfying conclusion. Not necessarily a Alliance wins over the Horde story. Heck, it doesn't have to be a victory (though one of some sort is long overdue; I know we technically won in Dazar'alor, but it just, again, doesn't feel that way; however, if you want to see a well done story that does not include a victory, see Letters From Iwo-Jima), and it definitelly doesn't have to include the Horde. I do have fun playing the game, but I am very much not enjoying the story. I want a story I would enjoy. Pure and simple. And I just don't see one anywhere in the game, not anymore.

[Galathir]

It’s really depressing to play a faction that is clearly de-prioritized in terms of development and care and has been since Cata.

I'm pretty sure Legion was after Cata.

[Grimbold21]

I just wished we would move away from the human focused alliance, with a human as high king and instead return to a coalition of races.

[Zenny]

It’s really depressing to play a faction that is clearly having its identity being ripped apart and destroyed since Cata

It’s baffling to read interviews where devs assure us it won't be Garrosh 2.0

It’s downright bizarre to see an entire race in WoW’s genocide used as a plot device for Blizzard to show how it made the Horde evil again.

It feels pointless to play a faction that will always be the bad guy, devoid of agency and honor.

[Tabrotar]

So Horde and Alliance forces fighting over Azerite in Sithilus. And major amounts of troops being sent to secure sithilus is a "localized skirmish"? Go ahead and look up the definition of peace. Here I will give you a link to ease the process https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/peace Definition 2 is the key one here.

The skirmishes are the first conflicts of the war. Even blizzard calls it a war. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_War#cite_note-bw-1



So killing a king and how many citizens of a city is equal to a few villagers now? I am not projecting anything. You keep doing mental gymnastics in order to keep the alliance as the victim. You have ignored several things in order to keep the Alliance as reactive only. I am not ignoring anything.

Again. If the Alliance was not at war with the horde why did they move most of the Kalimdor forces to Sithilus to stop the horde? The moment they started fight over Azerite is when the war started. There were just no major escalations until the war of thorns. The Alliance and Horde were in open conflict before Teldrissal was burned. Why else would they be deploying major resources to "local skirmishes" if it wasn't open war? The Legion epilogue cinematic is all about showing the peace ending because of fighting over Azerite.

You mean the troops being send there after the horde massacred the explorers league there? In their sleep? Bcs how dare the alliance is in the same region as the horde, how dare they...

[lockybalboa]

It's fucking disgusting how the Horde can get away atrocities after atrocities without getting punished. Fuck off with the we must forget about everything and team up to fight a greater evil bullshit. Fuck off seriously. Why are the Hordies always the aggressors and Alliance always the suckers who can't get any pinch of payback. Battle of Dazar'alor was a defeat in disguise with only an NPC king that no one cares about dying, while we have two leaders retreating with injuries. Hordies must everytime always fucking win it seems eh? Fuck Ion and his hordie lackeys. So sick of this blatant favoritism. And oh, I bet they are gonna do a Kerrigan U-turn and make Sylvannas the world savior and justify her actions with some bullshit excuse at the end too.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

With how much they love Sylvanas, it won't be Garrosh 2.0... we all know it.

- - - Updated - - -

So attacking a major faction's city and killing their king is reactive?

The Alliance (and the Horde actually) were in open war with the Zandalari when that happened.

[Yriel]

Why are you implying that the are less important? And a full assault on a city has zero civilian casualties? Another example of you blinding yourself. A city in ruins. A king dead. A major defeat is just a reaction to a village having some villagers killed. Okay. You are definitely delusional. The alliance proactively attacked the zandalari. They were not even officially part of the horde but they still took measures to attack and neutralize them.

Especially since they not only attacked from the port through the whole city to the pyramid with their main force, they had a diversionary force that attacked from the north with a large amount of night elf and worgen troops.
There was no part of zandalar that they didn't attack, realistically that should have killed lots of civilians.

- - - Updated - - -

It's fucking disgusting how the Horde can get away atrocities after atrocities without getting punished. Fuck off with the we must forget about everything and team up to fight a greater evil bullshit. Fuck off seriously. Why are the Hordies always the aggressors and Alliance always the suckers who can't get any pinch of payback. Battle of Dazar'alor was a defeat in disguise with only an NPC king that no one cares about dying, while we have two leaders retreating with injuries. Hordies must everytime always fucking win it seems eh? Fuck Ion and his hordie lackeys. So sick of this blatant favoritism. And oh, I bet they are gonna do a Kerrigan U-turn and make Sylvannas the world savior and justify her actions with some bullshit excuse at the end too.

You forgot the sarcasm tags...

[lockybalboa]

Especially since they not only attacked from the port through the whole city to the pyramid with their main force, they had a diversionary force that attacked from the north with a large amount of night elf and worgen troops.
There was no part of zandalar that they didn't attack, realistically that should have killed lots of civilians.

- - - Updated - - -



You forgot the sarcasm tags...

Anything wrong with what I've said? What's your point?

[Tarba]

I’ll be as succinct as possible:

It’s really depressing to play a faction that is clearly de-prioritized in terms of development and care and has been since Cata.

It’s baffling to read interviews where Tyrande’s arc is considered done and “vengeance” achieved.

It’s downright bizarre to see an entire race in WoW’s genocide used as a plot device for Blizzard to show how it made the Horde sad.

It feels pointless to play a faction that will always be reactive, devoid of agency and intrigue.

And it just sucks to invest a lot of time, passion, and imagination into this game when I finally realize the people who create it have none for the side I like playing.

It’s just a bummer, man. Not the end of the world or anything, but it’s just frustrating and at this point, playing Alliance truly feels like you’ve made the wrong choice, because you’re playing a side of WoW that the WoW team just honestly doesn’t seem invested in or passionate about.

After seeing the multiple extra questlines, branching story choices, cinematics, all focused on the Horde, it’s just nakedly obvious which players Blizzard cares about (even if you hate the story, the attention is there) and for the life of me I just don’t get it. I really don’t.

As you wish. Quick ideas for blizzard alliance developpement.

- Tyrande plots against the alliance because they did not help them against the horde. Malfurion seeks help from jaina to stop her. Baine will come and help them with the horde to redeem themselves.

- Anduin tries to force everyone to serve the light. Moira founds the truth and thinks thats not cool, so he emprison her so she could be the first one to be turned. Dwarves seeks help from the horde, because they know how to enter stormwind prison to free her. Genn thinks maybe Anduin went to far but prefer to wait and see what happen.

- the gnome king wakes up and sees his city attacked by trolls. He thinks that mortal races went to far, so he decides to turn people into mindless robots he can control. He starts with those trolls then the horde. Some people in the alliance begins to think they should maybe not do that because it's better to kill people. So he begins to do that to its own people. Some escapes to ironforge to seek help. So he tries to irradiate their city to lire them out. Dwarves are stuck so they seeks help from the troggs to find a way to his city.

There you go, enjoy.

Playing horde just make you feel like you shouldn't care about the lore.