Do you think Classic will Overtake Retail?

[Shadowferal]

It's incumbent on each and every one of us to ensure Classic is a success so we get future BC and Wrath servers and that the devs wake up and realise the direction they have been heading with retail wow is wrong and correct it

They do that, I think they'd lure a lot of former players back. For the sake of curiosity if nothing else.

[Kithelle]

I agree, obviously the only ones left playing retail are people that can't let go of a game they have put so much time into and collected so many things. The game is terrible right now though and all but the Blizzard tools agree with this.

This post just wreaks of irony, a classic player telling someone who plays live that they can't let go.

That is fucking hilarious, I mean really...it is so damn funny! Thanks for the laugh....had a shitty day today but this almost made me completely laugh out loud.

[MrLachyG]

Did I comment in this thread already? I don't remember

Anyways, "overtake" meaning classic would have multiple millions of players? (inb4 omegalul retail has literally 5 players, omegalul Drusin)



Nah doubt it, on launch maybe.

I'll be there either way though Has Blizz released realm names yet? We gotta get together as nerds and decide what server we are playing on since we can't just realm transfer. And we have to force all the streamers onto one realm so we don't get infested

there was a date given as to when we can reserve names, so around then maybe? I can't remember what the date was though

[Doffen]

This post just wreaks of irony, a classic player telling someone who plays live that they can't let go.

That is fucking hilarious, I mean really...it is so damn funny! Thanks for the laugh....had a shitty day today but this almost made me completely laugh out loud.

The irony is all over the place with pro-classic. It's mostly nostalgia, and for all that is worth, it can be enough to enjoy it for what it is.

But then we see people who claims BfA sucks lel because gameplay is so slow and specs are awful to play cause of said reason, then praise classic for the same thing. We even have this big streamer that says the issue with BfA is the slow paced specs, then in the next video praise classic because it's so slow that his actions(damage) shows on the mob for each ability he does. I mean it's insane.

Nostalgia, we all know what it does to us. I loved TBC and played it so much, so I take my levelling characters through those zones even though the questing sucks compared to WotLK. Its because of nostalgia I do Timewalking when it's TBC week, but is it any other expansion I think it's boring as fuck. It's because of nostalgia that I think it was so fun to farm shit in TBC because I hadn't done that for 15 years already. Nostalgia is so strong that people think Classic will have 5-6 million players playing regularly because they had so much fun with it 15 years ago. The list can go on for pages.

Classic is a good idea, I think it will be awesome for those who miss the times of old, I can fully understand that. I wish them the best and enjoyment as long as it lasts, they deserve it. But I do find the opinions of some pro-classic players are driven by pure nostalgia.

[Sensa1]

whats wrong with it ?

We know Bfa sold 3.4 million copies on day 1
https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...-wow-expansion
https://www.wowhead.com/news=286651/...ling-expansion
my original links seems broken

3.4 million standard editions is 3 400 000 x €44.99 = €152 966 000
Can't play without a sub so add 3.4 million standard subs and thats 3 400 000 x €12.99 = €44 166 000 total €197 132 000

Now this is me calculating standard editions and standard subs. Not calculating in how many of those 3.4 million was digital deluxe, which cost more. And everyone paying subs with gold, well, they are buying a token someone paid for, costing 25 euro, instead of 12.99

This is just day 1 of bfa, the first day. I don't know how many more copies they sold. nor sub numbers now. But as you can see, the revenue stream the first day is over 200 million euro. How much profit, i don't know. For classic to reach the same revenue as the minimum number on day 1, they need atleast 15 175 673 subs.

Now ofcourse, recreating classic is cheaper then making a new expansion from scratch. so to get the same % of profit. They need less subs. but there is simply no way classic can earn the same amount of money as retail. based on expansion game sales alone, 100k classic subs would need to be subbed to classic for about 10 years to earn the same revenue as the first day of bfa. And we all know thats not gonna happen

Also to clarify. Im not saying classic won't be worth it for blizzard to run. They can run it next to retail without issues. Im saying blizzard won't let it overtake retail and become the main game

It wasn't clear from your quoted post that you were making the argument that Blizzard won't let Classic overtake retail. That's a whole different argument.

If you want to take a cynical perspective it wouldn't be too far a leap to assume that part of the support within Blizzard for the No Change crowd (and I'm part of that crowd) is the fervent hope that hardcore Classic (meaning warts and all) will satisfy the nostalgia crowd enough to keep them engaged and reap the Quarterly report benefits of increased MAU's / profit while Classic (warts and all) is repugnant enough to those that prefer Retail to a) remind them to appreciate what they have more and b) continue to reap the benefits of the amount of box sales you sight that a truly new expansion often, but not always, brings.

However, there are several problems with that argument. First, releasing Classic is like releasing the Genie from the bottle. Blizzard can't really control the reaction. They can't manipulate the incentives in the way they do in retail, to promote or kill certain content, in Classic because Classic is, for lack of a better expression, locked in stone. Classic has the potential to have organic growth or, in today's terminology, go viral and appeal to both the nostalgia crowd as well as new gamers. It will, for the most part, be beyond Blizzard's total control.

It's also hard to imagine, based on what I read and personal experience, that with or without Classic that Retail will continue to post the type / amount of box sales numbers from prior expansions that you sight. You can only have so many WoD's or BFA's before people are no longer willing to give you the benefit of doubt and keep purchasing future expansions. I know, personally, I will never buy another WoW Retail expansion because for me, at least, the game has moved too far from what it was in Classic to be enjoyable.

If Classic does overtake Retail, and personally though a big fan of Classic I don't think it will, Blizzard will find a way to monetize that to replace the lost box sales from expansions.

Blizzard could easily release what I refer to as Classic Plus and gradually release content for Classic based on assets that were in Classic but never used. Since that would actually be "new" content they could easily charge Expansion Box pricing for what would essentially be additional map packs for the game. While it's true that they say now that it won't happen they will find a way to justify it when the times comes (Classic overtakes retail). Admittedly it would be an alternate reality but they have played with the lore so much it really wouldn't matter and it would amount to a giant reboot or WoW 2 (with significantly lower development costs). And if it's that popular people will want it 2 years or so down the road.

There's also less stridency in regards to TBC / Wrath, in my opinion, and they could probably be released with modern QoL improvements etc that Blizzard could then justify charging Expansion Box pricing for.

Bottom line - if Classic overtakes Retail it's because Retail is the piece of garbage I, and many others, think it is and Blizzard will find a way to monetize Classic in one of the ways suggested above or some other mechanism. As they say...you can bank on it.

[Spotnick]

Of course not...probably 75% of the people trying it will give up because it's clearly not for everyone and will be niche, but quite enjoyable for those who actually enjoy it.

Let's face it, there will be nothing to do in it after they have released all the content and you have cleared everything. Doesn't mean the game will die, but the people who went there for the experience, like myself, because I want to experience it because I joined in BC, but once I'm done I'm not sure why I'd still play it... even if they did BC servers after that now we're getting to Timewalking territory (fortunately Vanilla didn't get there) and I'm still sick to death of that content I've done way too many times.

But there will be an audience for sure, private servers proved that, what we don't know is if they will keep up the sub or not.

[Big Thanks]

The irony is all over the place with pro-classic. It's mostly nostalgia, and for all that is worth, it can be enough to enjoy it for what it is.

But then we see people who claims BfA sucks lel because gameplay is so slow and specs are awful to play cause of said reason, then praise classic for the same thing. We even have this big streamer that says the issue with BfA is the slow paced specs, then in the next video praise classic because it's so slow that his actions(damage) shows on the mob for each ability he does. I mean it's insane.

Nostalgia, we all know what it does to us. I loved TBC and played it so much, so I take my levelling characters through those zones even though the questing sucks compared to WotLK. Its because of nostalgia I do Timewalking when it's TBC week, but is it any other expansion I think it's boring as fuck. It's because of nostalgia that I think it was so fun to farm shit in TBC because I hadn't done that for 15 years already. Nostalgia is so strong that people think Classic will have 5-6 million players playing regularly because they had so much fun with it 15 years ago. The list can go on for pages.

Classic is a good idea, I think it will be awesome for those who miss the times of old, I can fully understand that. I wish them the best and enjoyment as long as it lasts, they deserve it. But I do find the opinions of some pro-classic players are driven by pure nostalgia.

There is only a couple things classic can offer me BfA doesnt...but are pretty major things for me:

-Sense of community while leveling
-Server Popularity
-Prestige by having a full raid tier set
-Not being able to acomplish anything if you dont put in the time
-Feeling like a God in PvP if you put in the time

And...

Thats pretty much it really. Nothing else for me there.
But this are major things i like.

[FuxieDK]

You're going too far in the other direction. 100k is a given, especially since it's a shared subscription so plenty of people will log in just to check things out. Now going into millions, especially long term, that's a lot more questionable.

You forget that a (great?) number of people think as my friend did.

When he heard of Classic he went hyper, but eventually his enthusiasm faded and I asked him why: No one else I know want to play Classic (me included) or play the wrong faction.
For classic, community is paramount, but faction is also. So the fact that y I ur friends play the other factoin is enough for a lot of people NOT to play.

Also, both the BlizzCon demo and the current beta pretty much shows that not nearly as many as expected plays classic. BlizzCon demo scared off A LOT of players, and the <I want this in Classic> threads began in bulk.

For me, it's pretty clear, Blizzard's statement will come true:

You think you want it, but you don't.

[Doffen]

There is only a couple things classic can offer me BfA doesnt...but are pretty major things for me:

-Sense of community while leveling
-Server Popularity
-Prestige by having a full raid tier set
-Not being able to acomplish anything if you dont put in the time
-Feeling like a God in PvP if you put in the time

And...

Thats pretty much it really. Nothing else for me there.
But this are major things i like.

I like those as well. I find prestige in putting in the time to accomplish and progress my characters. I want it to take an effort, and that's why Legion was way better for me than BfA is. Vanilla/TBC had that too. It stopped with WotLK, and I do miss those times.

Felt vanilla was too focused on getting every kind of small stuff like mats to buff and shit like that. I do miss attunements. Every step in the game was an obstacle you had to handle, and that's missing in retail I think. Want more of that. Reduce the amount of sources of gear, focus more on progressing with something like the Artifact Weapon progression, small attunements, give us challenges like mage tower, hunter/warlock quests etc.

So much they can do. And maybe learn something from classic. No blizzard, not 4 minute graveyard runs, but the other stuff.

[Big Thanks]

So much they can do. And maybe learn something from classic.

I have some theories about this.

1) No one knows if there is a market for oldschool MMO nerds TODAY (not even Blizzard knows this)
2) Or maybe Blizzard has actual data and decided that the best option is to cater to casuals and easy forms of entertainment.
Therefore there is no reason to make "changes" to make oldschool MMO nerds happy...because they are the minority
3) Its possible that Blizzard internal data is flawed and that their current strategy of catering exclusively to casuals is a bad idea.
But that would mean Oldschool MMORPG design is the way to go...but no one knows if this is true or not

The success/failure of classic will answer a lot of questions

[In Ogres We Trust]

I feel the need to point out that it didn't "have 800k players" it had 800k accounts registered over the course of its lifespan.


There's a lot wrong with this post, but the short version is that this is on you. You deciding you don't want to socialize, join a guild or do more challenging content doesn't make Vanilla-Wrath better at those things.

Cool story! The game isn't the same (you and I can skin this cat in any manner that you see fit), but in my opinion, with the exception of MoP (coupled with sporadic patches here and there), the game has been a Charlie Foxtrot since Cata.

[Ielenia]

What is NOT a content:

World quests
AP Grind
Mission table
Island expeditions - they could have been better. But I have no idea how to make them not boring AF.
Warfronts - this might have been good feature if they were really hard. HC is coming but Im guessing unless it will be on the level of 15 M+ its not gonna be hard.
Farming legendaries
Farming rare mobs

You need to inform yourself on the definition of the word "content". Every single thing you listed there is content. It may not be content you particularly like, but it is content. It is, as you put it, real content.

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I'll just add that, if a pirated server can have 800k ac, WoW: Classic will have over a million players.

I'll just correct you: no private server ever had 800k players. Nostalrius had 800k accounts throughout its lifetime. By that same metric, World of Warcraft reach 100 million accounts a few years ago.

At its peak, Nostalrius reached 150k active players.

[Big Thanks]

You need to inform yourself on the definition of the word "content". Every single thing you listed there is content. It may not be content you particularly like, but it is content. It is, as you put it, real content.

Is short-term content.

Stuff created by "themepark seasonal design" Blizzard went with.

[Ielenia]

Is short-term content.

Stuff created by "themepark seasonal design" Blizzard went with.

Irrelevant. Simply because what the poster wrote, in these exact words: "What is NOT a content".

It is content.

Again, you may not particularly like that content, but that doesn't mean it's not content.

[Drusin]

there was a date given as to when we can reserve names, so around then maybe? I can't remember what the date was though

Good point, I remember that. It was August 13th according to https://progameguides.com/news/wow-c...haracter-name/

[bloodykiller86]

The irony is all over the place with pro-classic. It's mostly nostalgia, and for all that is worth, it can be enough to enjoy it for what it is.

But then we see people who claims BfA sucks lel because gameplay is so slow and specs are awful to play cause of said reason, then praise classic for the same thing. We even have this big streamer that says the issue with BfA is the slow paced specs, then in the next video praise classic because it's so slow that his actions(damage) shows on the mob for each ability he does. I mean it's insane.

Nostalgia, we all know what it does to us. I loved TBC and played it so much, so I take my levelling characters through those zones even though the questing sucks compared to WotLK. Its because of nostalgia I do Timewalking when it's TBC week, but is it any other expansion I think it's boring as fuck. It's because of nostalgia that I think it was so fun to farm shit in TBC because I hadn't done that for 15 years already. Nostalgia is so strong that people think Classic will have 5-6 million players playing regularly because they had so much fun with it 15 years ago. The list can go on for pages.

Classic is a good idea, I think it will be awesome for those who miss the times of old, I can fully understand that. I wish them the best and enjoyment as long as it lasts, they deserve it. But I do find the opinions of some pro-classic players are driven by pure nostalgia.

Pro-Classic people in general are pretty damn out there and havent realized that theyre onboard the Classic Hype Train and its going 2x full speed atm....when it crashes, its gonna crash hard lol

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You need to inform yourself on the definition of the word "content". Every single thing you listed there is content. It may not be content you particularly like, but it is content. It is, as you put it, real content.

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I'll just correct you: no private server ever had 800k players. Nostalrius had 800k accounts throughout its lifetime. By that same metric, World of Warcraft reach 100 million accounts a few years ago.

At its peak, Nostalrius reached 150k active players.

You cant use facts with these people man, they'll just say you're crazy for playing BFA etc lol

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Cool story! In actuality, it isn't. The game isn't the same (you and I can skin this cat in any manner that you see fit), but in my opinion, with the exception of MoP (coupled with sporadic patches here and there), the game has been a Charlie Foxtrot since Cata.

So you're saying Legion was bad? When its regarded as one of the best points in WoW since WoTLK? lol

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You forget that a (great?) number of people think as my friend did.

When he heard of Classic he went hyper, but eventually his enthusiasm faded and I asked him why: No one else I know want to play Classic (me included) or play the wrong faction.
For classic, community is paramount, but faction is also. So the fact that y I ur friends play the other factoin is enough for a lot of people NOT to play.

Also, both the BlizzCon demo and the current beta pretty much shows that not nearly as many as expected plays classic. BlizzCon demo scared off A LOT of players, and the <I want this in Classic> threads began in bulk.

For me, it's pretty clear, Blizzard's statement will come true:

You think you want it, but you don't.

It was always true, it will always have a niche community and it will definitely surge at first, but it will crash hard later on. The only thing i'll give it is that hunters felt better back then in certain aspects lol

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It wasn't clear from your quoted post that you were making the argument that Blizzard won't let Classic overtake retail. That's a whole different argument.

If you want to take a cynical perspective it wouldn't be too far a leap to assume that part of the support within Blizzard for the No Change crowd (and I'm part of that crowd) is the fervent hope that hardcore Classic (meaning warts and all) will satisfy the nostalgia crowd enough to keep them engaged and reap the Quarterly report benefits of increased MAU's / profit while Classic (warts and all) is repugnant enough to those that prefer Retail to a) remind them to appreciate what they have more and b) continue to reap the benefits of the amount of box sales you sight that a truly new expansion often, but not always, brings.

However, there are several problems with that argument. First, releasing Classic is like releasing the Genie from the bottle. Blizzard can't really control the reaction. They can't manipulate the incentives in the way they do in retail, to promote or kill certain content, in Classic because Classic is, for lack of a better expression, locked in stone. Classic has the potential to have organic growth or, in today's terminology, go viral and appeal to both the nostalgia crowd as well as new gamers. It will, for the most part, be beyond Blizzard's total control.

It's also hard to imagine, based on what I read and personal experience, that with or without Classic that Retail will continue to post the type / amount of box sales numbers from prior expansions that you sight. You can only have so many WoD's or BFA's before people are no longer willing to give you the benefit of doubt and keep purchasing future expansions. I know, personally, I will never buy another WoW Retail expansion because for me, at least, the game has moved too far from what it was in Classic to be enjoyable.

If Classic does overtake Retail, and personally though a big fan of Classic I don't think it will, Blizzard will find a way to monetize that to replace the lost box sales from expansions.

Blizzard could easily release what I refer to as Classic Plus and gradually release content for Classic based on assets that were in Classic but never used. Since that would actually be "new" content they could easily charge Expansion Box pricing for what would essentially be additional map packs for the game. While it's true that they say now that it won't happen they will find a way to justify it when the times comes (Classic overtakes retail). Admittedly it would be an alternate reality but they have played with the lore so much it really wouldn't matter and it would amount to a giant reboot or WoW 2 (with significantly lower development costs). And if it's that popular people will want it 2 years or so down the road.

There's also less stridency in regards to TBC / Wrath, in my opinion, and they could probably be released with modern QoL improvements etc that Blizzard could then justify charging Expansion Box pricing for.

Bottom line - if Classic overtakes Retail it's because Retail is the piece of garbage I, and many others, think it is and Blizzard will find a way to monetize Classic in one of the ways suggested above or some other mechanism. As they say...you can bank on it.

Blizzard would be destroying everything if they ever add content to Classic. at most, they get expansion re-releases and thats IT! New content is a terrible idea and will ruin everything theyve built in lore, story etc

[deceptacon1]

All you anti-classic people are being silly. Even if we don't have true numbers we can extrapolate data from other games such as everquest who have done the exact same thing.

They have stated before that they receive approximately 30% of their total revenue from time locked progression servers (which would be similar to classic wow).

If this is any indication as to what will happen with wow, and I don't think we have a reason to doubt it would be the case if the execution is on point, then we can expect similar results.

If you have data that can counter this point then feel free to provide it.

So will classic overtake live? I doubt it will overtake it in terms of popularity or revenue generated but I do think it will be something they can't/shouldn't ignore. Furthermore, if executed correctly, it will be an overall positive thing for both games! Which is ideal for people in both camps.

[MrLachyG]

Good point, I remember that. It was August 13th according to https://progameguides.com/news/wow-c...haracter-name/

ah thanks! i just hope that they have Oceanic realms.....

[Aeula]

Blizzard would be destroying everything if they ever add content to Classic. at most, they get expansion re-releases and thats IT! New content is a terrible idea and will ruin everything theyve built in lore, story etc

The lore and story are the worst parts about modern WoW. A hard reset is a great idea in that regard, though I personally wouldn’t want to see Classic’s classes and more annoying gameplay changes brought forward.

[ornichi]

I was one of those people, who fully supported classic, but after getting into beta, I realised it's a bit different from what is shown through streamers' experience.

Note: I play wow since TBC. During beta I leveled an undead rogue up to level 23. So all my conclusions are based on this experience.

1) While watching some Esfand, Asmon, Soda etc. stream, you often see people gladly grouping up and following streamers for lulz, giving them flasks and items, but you are rarely gonna find someone to help you apart from doing together 1 quest (and some people don't even want to group up for it either, lol). The "social and friendly vanilla experience" is kinda dragged in by the head and shoulders.
2) Yes, rewards matter. One piece of gear makes a huge difference, that's totaly true. The system is way more straightforward than in BfA, which actually makes it easier to target some specific item.
3) Road to 15th was fun, with great pace and good combination of quests/mob killing. After that however downtime becomes a real issue. You spend way too much time running from point A to point B (up to 20-25 minutes), which makes experience tedious and forces you to drop the game to have some eye rest and wait for your hearthstone to get off CD.
4) Talents don't feel like a big deal. You get an extra 1% hit chance or X spell dmg increase by a low margin, but it's just an illusion of reward. The same random murloc will have the same chance of killing you if you don't Gouge-First Aid him in the middle of the fight despite you chosing talent X instead of talent Y.
5) Classes are very slow and boring to play, combat is monotonous and lacks any sort of dynamics. Out of all my kit for rotation I've been mostly using only 2-3 abilities. Spell batching doesn't make it fun either. So basically after several levels you start burning out and feeling urge to take a break.

To conclude, I was one of those people, who liked the idea of classic and was hyping it. As of now, I am kinda sure that the game will have it's rise in the first 2 months after launch, but after that we will see a steady decline of people due to systems being old, combat being boring and rewards being gated worse than in retail. Furthermore, Novermber will be big for BfA with 15th anniversary event, final patch of the expansion and 9.0 announcement on blizzcon.

So no, with all that said there are no objective reasons for classic to overtake retail.

TLDR: Classic is like camping: you wanna dedicate a week or two to climbing a mountain or living in a tent in a forest but there is no way you are going to exchange your life in a cozy apartment with shower, internet and local bar for that entirely.

Thank you for your time!