What I dont understand of players who want vanilla wow.

[potis]

There 100% is a Classic community. Many people are only interested in Classic and will never play retail and vice-versa. Retail massively segregates people with LFR, M+, different levels of raiding etc

Because there is was no segregation in Vanilla right?

./who the only 2-3 relevant guilds, ignore the existence of everyone else.

[Charge me Doctor]

There 100% is a Classic community. Many people are only interested in Classic and will never play retail and vice-versa. Retail massively segregates people with LFR, M+, different levels of raiding etc

So... do these people exist in a vacuum or something? Without any connections with other players? You want this community to be a thing, but it isn't. It's just bunch of different people with different goals, expectations and enjoyments who play in the same world.

Again, nothing segregates players in BfA, it's way better than classic in this regard with flexible raid size, cross-server interaction and better class balance, but you decide to look at the game and see nothing but random matchmaking and choose to treat people like faceless AI in game.

[potis]

So... do these people exist in a vacuum or something? Without any connections with other players? You want this community to be a thing, but it isn't. It's just bunch of different people with different goals, expectations and enjoyments who play in the same world.

He means this imaginary echo chamber where 15 years after everyone is still clueless and wont know why they wiped 10 times already to auto attack, and no one will complain.

[Charge me Doctor]

He means this imaginary echo chamber where 15 years after everyone is still clueless and wont know why they wiped 10 times already to auto attack, and no one will complain.

Even if such a thing exists and they'll actively segregate people from this "community" who doesn't fit their agenda - ok, i guess, it's self-contained environment at this point.
But most likely it's just a person who doesn't like to socialize in social games without forced interactions, so people will have to play with him for no effort from his side. I've met a lot of players like these back in vanilla, TBC and in RU realms of WotLK. By the time cataclysm hit it became kinda irrelevant and you could avoid such players and replace them with whatever. This kind of players are fucking worst to manage in a guild.

[potis]

Even if such a thing exists and they'll actively segregate people from this "community" who doesn't fit their agenda - ok, i guess, it's self-contained environment at this point.

It was a self-contained environment, Blizzard broke it by making the better players to have to play with the not-so-good-rightdown-awful players with the point system.

Nowadays its with rare mounts also dropping in LFR, incentive for better players to join and actually finish stuff.

Blizzard is not dumb in the least, but generally that creates problems, one side complains that elitists tell them what to do, other side complains that people are terrible, while everyone was in their own echo chamber until then, aka the first 2-2.5 expansions.

[dzd]

Not even sure what the Warlocks are supposed to be, Sleep from Succubus? You mean will of the forsaken-->2 shot Warlock? He comes, fear succubus-->2 shot Warlock, watch him leave BG?

Did you play vanilla at all yourself? All your pvp "knowledge" is from videos. PoM/Pyro mages, succubus warlocks, warriors steamrolling with healers in bgs.

I have one question though. Why do you think it's bad thing in a game if you can 2shot naked warlock playing wrong pet? In my eyes there is nothing wrong with it, because if you can't kill bad player fast, how are you ever supposed to kill good players? This is one problem in bfa. Makes the game so slow and frustrating.

[Bethrezen]

They also want the pvp and pve that had meaning and fun to one snother.

[potis]

Did you play vanilla at all yourself? All your pvp "knowledge" is from videos. PoM/Pyro mages, succubus warlocks, warriors steamrolling with healers in bgs.

I have one question though. Why do you think it's bad thing in a game if you can 2shot naked warlock playing wrong pet? In my eyes there is nothing wrong with it, because if you can't kill bad player fast, how are you ever supposed to kill good players? This is one problem in bfa. Makes the game so slow and frustrating.

Sigh "knowledge from videos", are you as dense as everyone else new account?

I literally told you, i had a Naxx/AQ40 geared Warrior at the end of Vanilla, i was in the main premade group of my server to push the Rank 14s in the period of August 2005-Early October 2005 since it was one of the secondary servers i rerolled too when it launched at May 2005, got almost Rank 11 myself, stopped at 10 and 90%, went back to PvE cause it was more fun.

Because of that group i had my own personal Rank 14 Shaman and Rank 13 Priest whenever i wanted to PvP considering we later ended up in the same guild, as the only thing to do in Vanilla is Raid, when i got my C'thun axe , i never died to anything apart from a Naxx geared Mage that would pom crit my whole HP, or an equally geared Warrior because he critted first.

Helped 3 different IRL friends get Rank 14/14/13 by playing their characters since everyone has to sleep eventually.

The things and amount of time i spent playing in Vanilla is stuff that even in Classic in the first 4 years of its existence, the 99% still wont do.

Do you even know the proc bug? Mister "I played Vanilla"?

Also, who talked about BFA PvP? I am just saying, Vanilla PvP was even more shit than today.

PvP today is a mix of terrible players crying about players like me with too much gear, killing 4 of them with 1 Whirlwind because it Crit and Deep Wounds finished them off, therefor they fixed the gear overpowereness, many expansions ago, so people can claim "skill"

But people dont want skill, they want to do, what i did to them, they want to 1 shot everyone, without having to farm the gear to do so.

[Charge me Doctor]

It was a self-contained environment, Blizzard broke it by making the better players to have to play with the not-so-good-rightdown-awful players with the point system.

Nowadays its with rare mounts also dropping in LFR, incentive for better players to join and actually finish stuff.

Blizzard is not dumb in the least, but generally that creates problems, one side complains that elitists tell them what to do, other side complains that people are terrible, while everyone was in their own echo chamber until then, aka the first 2-2.5 expansions.

Again, you are free to opt-out of it by not using random matchmaking and build raids in a good old way. In fact, M+ doesn't even have random matchmaking (and "elite" anti-social players throughout the history of WoW are the ones who force bullshit things like gearscore raiderio 'till blizzard eventually gives in and implements that in game).
And as you mentioned self-contained environment and in next sentence you said that blizzard "made the better players to have to play with not-so-good-rightdown-awful players" tells me that you only benefit from segregation of community, since all you are interested in is how good a player is (aka - replace players with faceless AI).

Vanilla/classic is the worst environment for players like this, because they pollute it with this anti-social behavior, while reaping fruits of what social players grew.

[potis]

Again, you are free to opt-out of it by not using random matchmaking and build raids in a good old way. In fact, M+ doesn't even have random matchmaking (and "elite" anti-social players throughout the history of WoW are the ones who force bullshit things like gearscore raiderio 'till blizzard eventually gives in and implements that in game).
And as you mentioned self-contained environment and in next sentence you said that blizzard "made the better players to have to play with not-so-good-rightdown-awful players" tells me that you only benefit from segregation of community, since all you are interested in is how good a player is (aka - replace players with faceless AI).

Vanilla/classic is the worst environment for players like this, because they pollute it with this anti-social behavior, while reaping fruits of what social players grew.

I am not sure where this is going, i didnt disagree with you, i am just explaining the logic that they use.

Vanilla had this environment, the people just didnt know it, as i said above, the 99% didnt know how the 1% excluded them passively, and after the 1%, the slightly better 1%, excluded them also, etc etc.

They believe its this environment thats perfect and everyone will accept how terrible they are, but the only reason they didnt experience it as massively as before was because Blizzard didnt force the 1% to meet with the 99%.

When it started happening, is where people started blaming Blizzard about "Community" breaking.

[Charge me Doctor]

Did you play vanilla at all yourself? All your pvp "knowledge" is from videos. PoM/Pyro mages, succubus warlocks, warriors steamrolling with healers in bgs.

I have one question though. Why do you think it's bad thing in a game if you can 2shot naked warlock playing wrong pet? In my eyes there is nothing wrong with it, because if you can't kill bad player fast, how are you ever supposed to kill good players? This is one problem in bfa. Makes the game so slow and frustrating.

Because the game is supposed to be fun, getting 2-shotted, because someone else takes BG hostage with a pre-made group of well geared players and farms HKs for whoever needs to be rank 1 this time, so the second party doesn't even have a chance to fight back - not fun. It's equivalent of "rock falls, everyone dies" for the "receiving pwnage" player (since some people here are so fixated on RPG)

[Octoberfest99]

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Red Dead Redemption 2 was released last year and, like you said, Skyrim has a dedicated modding community.

Classic is neither of those things. It's a horribly dated version of the game and modding (aside from UI addons) is strictly forbidden.
All you have is a relic that will never change, will never be updated. Stuck in an indefinite stasis. And as "immersive" as the game was back then. Try as you might, you will never recapture the feelings you had when you first played it back in 2004. Anyone who thinks they can is living in a bubble. (Unless you give yourself a lobotomy beforehand).

If people want to waste the same amount of time on a game they've already played before, fine by me. But I for one have had my fill. WotLK was my favorite expansion and even I wouldn't go back if Wrath servers were eventually released.

I agree it won't be possible to recapture the feelings I had playing Vanilla. Most of my friends from back then either don't play WoW anymore or we have lost touch with each other. I don't think Classic will hold my attention for long because like you mentioned the game is frozen in time with no new content. I already had my Classic adventures and the nostalgia of reliving the past won't keep my interest. Were there a dedicated modding community that could add new content, I'd be more interested. But I think there are probably between 250,000-500,000 players who will be happy replaying the Classic content, while making new friends on their respective servers. Heck, there is still a dedicated group of Ultima Online players (although I believe their numbers are under 100,000).

[Frosteye]

I think people want a more difficult but linear progression that feels rewarding when you reach the end.

The problem with modern WoW is that if you spend a LOT of time playing the game, everyone else catches up shortly afterwards with the abundance of catch-up mechanics (despite putting in almost no work). Putting a lot of time into this game really doesn't feel rewarding anymore.

Whereas, back in Vanilla if you took a 6month break during Molten Core, when you came back you had to pick up where you left off in Molten Core. There was no "skipping content".

Having this linear progression path with no catch-up mechanics also meant that old content remained relevant during the entire lifecycle of Vanilla.

[Charge me Doctor]

I am not sure where this is going, i didnt disagree with you, i am just explaining the logic that they use.

Vanilla had this environment, the people just didnt know it, as i said above, the 99% didnt know how the 1% excluded them passively, and after the 1%, the slightly better 1%, excluded them also, etc etc.

They believe its this environment thats perfect and everyone will accept how terrible they are, but the only reason they didnt experience it as massively as before was because Blizzard didnt force the 1% to meet with the 99%.

When it started happening, is where people started blaming Blizzard about "Community" breaking.

I maybe worded my post in a wrong way, by those "you"s i didn't meant you specifically, but a hypothetical player who benefits greatly from social community while not providing anything into it

[potis]

I maybe worded my post in a wrong way, by those "you"s i didn't meant you specifically, but a hypothetical player who benefits greatly from social community while not providing anything into it

But thats the thing, there was no knowledge, so Player B, didnt know if Player A was wrong.

15 years after, the knowledge is so spread, that those gazillion little perfect bubble worlds of "community" will not exist.

There will be someone with more knowledge cause he read something etc etc, people are in for a massive surprise!

[Kauko]

Finally someone wrote it down. Good post OP!

[narendal94]

Nixxiom did a great 1h comparison in the starting area between BFA and classic. Really worth the watch.

[Darkguyver2020]

I agree it won't be possible to recapture the feelings I had playing Vanilla. Most of my friends from back then either don't play WoW anymore or we have lost touch with each other. I don't think Classic will hold my attention for long because like you mentioned the game is frozen in time with no new content. I already had my Classic adventures and the nostalgia of reliving the past won't keep my interest. Were there a dedicated modding community that could add new content, I'd be more interested. But I think there are probably between 250,000-500,000 players who will be happy replaying the Classic content, while making new friends on their respective servers. Heck, there is still a dedicated group of Ultima Online players (although I believe their numbers are under 100,000).

At least you're being realistic with your expectations, unlike a lot of people I've seen who nonsensically believe that Classic will be able to grab and retain more players than the Retail version.

I think people want a more difficult but linear progression that feels rewarding when you reach the end.

The problem with modern WoW is that if you spend a LOT of time playing the game, everyone else catches up shortly afterwards with the abundance of catch-up mechanics (despite putting in almost no work). Putting a lot of time into this game really doesn't feel rewarding anymore.

Whereas, back in Vanilla if you took a 6month break during Molten Core, when you came back you had to pick up where you left off in Molten Core. There was no "skipping content".

Having this linear progression path with no catch-up mechanics also meant that old content remained relevant during the entire lifecycle of Vanilla.

But at the same time, that meant only the minutest percent of players ever got to set foot in Naxxramas, let alone beat it.
From the developers perspective. it must have been difficult to see all that work put into the art and mechanics of such an epic raid only be experienced by a few guilds.
This is one of the reasons why the game is so accessible now and gives people more choices. Back then, you either had to raid and grind every waking moment of your life or miss out.

[brett8722]

So, I loved vanilla and the thought of having that again is awesome.

My problem is...…. there is a point that as living game, if there is nothing added, would it still be fun to play a game that isn't ever going to have updated content? You get all your tiered gear, you have completed the raids on a main, on an alt.... is playing the same, unchanging content still going to be fun?

[Popastique]

Nixxiom did a great 1h comparison in the starting area between BFA and classic. Really worth the watch.

1 armor argument, *great comparison*