Blizzard killed off Mythic+ on PTR

[Poppincaps]

420 is fine for regular runs. Unlimited heroic quality gear basically killed heroic raiding this tier. The weekly chest should be 5 ilvl below Mythic though imo. Now a lot of people won't even bother.

[Has lost its way]

So, since TBC then?

Pretty much... I would argue the achievement systems added a lot of reputability to dungeons for the proto drake mounts but the novelty of mounts has been spent.

[Queen of Hamsters]

This is going to be awkward but destiny 2 not only has more players than bfa (by a factor of 2-3, don’t forget consoles) but it will absolutely outlive wow bfa.

Wow itself will outlive it, sure, but at this point it’s like someone in a coma they won’t let go.

As for wow bfa, no. Destiny will outlive that by years and has more players, interest, and a brighter future than bfa.

Why do you think atvi stock shredded 25% of its value when they lost destiny to bungie? Billions of dollars gone.

Wow bfa cant even outperform wow of 15 years ago lol even during their mdi’s They don’t have a single piece of bfa content with a positive like/dislike ratio on YouTube but yeah, sure, it’s doing ‘swell’

Lol. Wisfhul thinking really is your shtick.

WoW BfA = WoW, they're not separate, and will remain profitable and alive long after Destiny 2 is buried.
The fact that you desperately claw at Twitch viewership and like/dislike rates on Youtube says all that needs to be said. But you cling to your blankie, I'm sure it's a perfect title that's doing better than any other, despite all the controversies and facts to the opposite.

[MiiiMiii]

hopefully this is true and goes live. M+ does not belong in this game and it being expected that you do as a raider ruined raiding. Good riddance.

Hopefully the Gnome mega dungeon stays mythic only forever. Death to scaling.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I can see the point you're trying to argue, but they're smashing their heads against bosses when they're ilvl is 10-15 lvls below what people are clearing M-Jaina at now. I think the world first was Method, and their average ilvl was 406. Most people who farm M+ now and raid Mythic are 415-420+. That is a very big difference. If Method had 420 gear, they would've cleared jaina in under under 150-200 attempts easy, really however long it took them to learn all the mechanics in each phase.

PvP can be up for debate, but scripted encounters vs on the fly strategizing, isn't much to compare. One is clearly much harder than the other. The only hard part that I've noticed in Mythic raids, is getting people to pay attention. Example, my guild is on average probably 415 ilvl, and we haven't killed Rastakhan on mythic. #1 reason for wipes? Healers dying to avoidable mechanics. Not dps, or tanks. Our healers. And it's been like this the entire tier.

Funny side story, our guild leader made a reddit post asking for tips. Most common reply, fire all your healers. Was pretty embarrassing for those folks I'm sure.

The really good PVPers know what to expect from other players and the classes. How often isn't it the case that they can predict what the opposing team will be pulling?

Let's not pretend that WoW pvp is some landscape of infinite unpredictability. It's just not the case when every class has a definitive arsenal.

As for the difficulty of either relative to the other, I suppose only those doing both (high end raiding and Gladiator) would know.

[shyguybman]

Special content IS the incentive to raid

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Should I go ahead and bother telling you that destiny 2 crushes wow bfa on all streaming metrics? Wow streaming is dead outside of classic. Take classic away and bfa falls out of the top 100

Wow is pretty much always in the top ~20 games on twitch regardless if there is classic or not

[justandulas]

Wow is pretty much always in the top ~20 games on twitch regardless if there is classic or not

Before classic, when they weren’t doing method world first or
Mdi tournaments; bfa was not in the top 50 for weeks in end. Without classic, it would be at all time lows currently

[chronia]

I’m gonna also point out that the mdi did so poorly the other night during their stream; that wow classic scarlet monetary runs and AB had hundreds of times the viewers.

I don't think its needed to lie to show that WoW Classic is having a very good viewership atm. I only watched a small part of the MDI, but when i was watching there were around 25k viewers, even the Friday had from what i can see around 15k ppl watching, and this was on a working day, at a very bad time i think (due to the event being in Australia), since it was during EU working hours and during the night for US viewers. Classic would have had more viewers, especially if Asmon or Soda was streaming, but not "Hundreds of times".

Over Between Friday and Sunday the "Warcraft" channel averaged +-15.000 viewer.
Viewership for "World of Warcraft" was +-60.000 average over the same period. Now lets say of those 60.000 average viewers only the 15.000 watching MDI were watching BFA and 45.000 were watch Classic. Then at best it's 3 times as many viewers for Classic.

Classic doing well now is expected though, the bigger question will be where will Classic stand in 2-3 years. Without a doubt Classic will see massive viewership on launch, but will that viewership stay is the big question. I reckon a big question will be what will for example Asmongold and Soda do, if they stay with Classic that automaticly means a lot of viewers for Classic. Should they play retail again, retail will have those viewers. Same will be for other streamers, i also think some big Fortnite or something Streamer is going to play Classic. He will bring a lot of viewers most probably, but will he be playing Classic still in 2 years, or will he be back to the next big thing.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't think its needed to lie to show that WoW Classic is having a very good viewership atm. I only watched a small part of the MDI, but when i was watching there were around 25k viewers. Classic would have had more viewers, especially if Asmon or Soda was streaming, but not "Hundreds of times".

Over Between Friday and Sunday the "Warcraft" channel averaged +-15.000 viewer.
Viewership for "World of Warcraft" was +-60.000 average over the same period. Now lets say of those 60.000 average viewers only the 15.000 watching MDI were watching BFA and 45.000 were watch Classic. Then at best it's 3 times as many viewers for Classic.

Classic doing well now is expected though, the bigger question will be where will Classic stand in 2-3 years. Without a doubt Classic will see massive viewership on launch, but will that viewership stay is the big question. I reckon a big question will be what will for example Asmongold and Soda do, if they stay with Classic that automaticly means a lot of viewers for Classic. Should they play retail again, retail will have those viewers. Same will be for other streamers, i also think some big Fortnite or something Streamer is going to play Classic. He will bring a lot of viewers most probably, but will he be playing Classic still in 2 years, or will he be back to the next big thing.

Indeed.

Currently, the big streamers bring the views. Some regular WoW streamers actually have fewer viewers as they play Classic.
When it's MDI finals, a new EP or World First, the content brings the views, not the twitch personalities.

But yeah, overall there's nothing weird about WoW not being at the top in viewership on Twitch between big events, especially when put up against entirely new titles. Has nothing to do with BfA, even if some individuals with selective memory wants to believe so.

[shyguybman]

Before classic, when they weren’t doing method world first or
Mdi tournaments; bfa was not in the top 50 for weeks in end. Without classic, it would be at all time lows currently

Can you post your source, because looking at this (scroll down, goes back to March) we can see that wow has more viewers than Destiny.

WoW: https://www.twitchmetrics.net/g/18122-world-of-warcraft
Destiny: https://www.twitchmetrics.net/g/497057-destiny-2

edit:

WoW

Destiny

[Natureseer]

Is your enjoyment solely linked to getting high gear from the content? and not the time you spent with your friends?

Yes

(ily friends but lets b real here)

[Queen of Hamsters]

Can you post your source, because looking at this (scroll down, goes back to March) we can see that wow has more viewers than Destiny.

WoW: https://www.twitchmetrics.net/g/18122-world-of-warcraft
Destiny: https://www.twitchmetrics.net/g/497057-destiny-2

edit:

WoW

Destiny

Well would you look at that. Rhymes with the fact that Destiny 2 has in no shape or form enjoyed a perfectly positive reception according to the web.
WoW didn't have Classic Beta under its channel for most of the timespan of that statistic neither.

[Kathranis]

If you don't do Mythic Raiding why do you need Mythic Raid quality gear?

This only affects people who want to use Mythic+ to gear for Mythic Raiding.

[Barzotti]

If you don't do Mythic Raiding why do you need Mythic Raid quality gear?

To do my weekly Freehold +10 more easily. I like having excellent gear with limited effort, even if this gear is way too good for the content I'm doing. My main is 415 equipped, and only 3/9 HC and 1/9 M. Is that lazy? Yes, of course. Do I absolutely need 410 gear and mythic level azerite pieces for free to do a weekly +10? No. Do I "deserve" this loot? I don't care.

Side note: I think the ability to get excellent gear is way too easy in BfA (I got 425 gloves in the weekly cache by doing a +7 on an alt, yeee), but the ability to get good gear so fast keeps me subbed (I play lots of alts).

[Erolian]

If you don't do Mythic Raiding why do you need Mythic Raid quality gear?

This only affects people who want to use Mythic+ to gear for Mythic Raiding.

When people say these things its like they don't realize that people push beyond +10 in M+. Eventually it does scale to be more difficult than mythic raiding. The problem imo is that people are rewarded heavily before pushing to the point that the rewards are appropriate which is just stupid game design. They want to give a maximum reward for a +10 even though its probably easier than heroic raiding. They want to give a cosmetic for +15s even though there still isn't anything special going on. People push over 20. Why are they not rewarded? Why is the bar set so low for everything? Its just dumb. At least the person setting up the cosmetic essence reward and mount/end of season rewards in PvP decided to put the really nice rewards at glad where it makes some kind of sense as a progression. All this change will do is make people who are really trying to push M+ feel like they need to clear raids to do it rather than just stay doing the content they actually wanted

[cparle87]

M+ has always been undervalued compared to raids if you purely look at reward/difficulty, but as the former is repeatable and the latter has a weekly lockout, that seems justified as long as we have reasonable W/TF chances.

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We are at the end of a season, so ofc it feels easy. so does the raid on farm. All things equal, I have observed the typical M+ 'for the chest' to be more difficult than HC raids for typical raidloggers when you match phase (new raid/new season)

Fair 'nuff.

[agentsi]

The really good PVPers know what to expect from other players and the classes. How often isn't it the case that they can predict what the opposing team will be pulling?

Let's not pretend that WoW pvp is some landscape of infinite unpredictability. It's just not the case when every class has a definitive arsenal.

As for the difficulty of either relative to the other, I suppose only those doing both (high end raiding and Gladiator) would know.

I'm guessing you've never done either, which is fine. But even just watching the MDI PvP streams that MMO-C and WoW do. The teams KNOW the other teams pick, and sometimes can't counter it. Or if the other team loses, they get the element of surprise the next round. So yes, there is a good bit of the unknown to be had.

As this conversation could go on forever. Ask anyone whos been both, PvP will always be harder. Especially considering there is a cutoff. Imagine if they said, only the first 100 guilds from each faction can kill the mythic end boss for that tier. WAY less than 4000 people hit glad every season.

[TOM_RUS]

WTF those ass heads are doing? New shit seasonal affix, nerfed loot, buffed all easy dungeons (Freehold, Atal, Tol Dagor) across the board.
They are killing the game.
M+ is dead and ppl will quit en masse.

[Barzotti]

WTF those ass heads are doing? New shit seasonal affix, nerfed loot, buffed all easy dungeons (Freehold, Atal, Tol Dagor) across the board.
They are killing the game.
M+ is dead and ppl will quit en masse.

Oh no, Freehold won't be retardedly easy anymore and we will have a real affix that implies having more than two functional brain cells instead of a retardedly easy one (reaping)!
What a shame

[Relapses]

Oh no, Freehold won't be retardedly easy anymore and we will have a real affix that implies having more than two functional brain cells instead of a retardedly easy one (reaping)!
What a shame

I know you're being satirical but the new affix is literally fucking cancer. If it gets released the way it is on the PTR nobody is going to bother. It's really, really bad.