I'm really struggling here...

[arkanon]

The game is garbage, when the game is garbage people get pissed at the game and the developers.

TL;DR stop telling people how to feel.

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That's like using a high school who's graduating senior class had 150 students to one that had 800+ students to compare bully rates.

I would think that 150 is a perfectly acceptable sample size when compared to 800?

[subsidalos]

With good gear, yes. When you're new, no. Conversely, why not educate them to NOT stand in the fire so they can move up the raiding tier ladder to raid more difficult stuff and be a more "useful" raid to our community? Teach. Foster. Encourage.

I remember the good old days where you actually helped players get better instead of shitting on them at every turn. The sense of community in this game is dead. Waiting for classic.

[Bildur]

i pay the same subscription you do and you can't tell me how to act towards others. people suck shit all day long irl, and the internet is where a lot come to blow that negativity back into society. you handed it to us, we're handing it back.

= I drive on the same road as you so I'm allowed to smash my car into yours just because I had a shitty day.

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I have to agree with the OP. Several friends of mine who play stopped even joining a LFD for those reasons.

My girlfriend started in WoW no more than 6-8 months ago and I had to warn her about the toxcity she would encounter if she ever decided to touch the LFD etc. button. Now her son has started to play and there's no way we'll let him become the target of someone taking their frustrations out of him just because they had a bad day and he's nothing but a glorified "npc bot" (as another post called fellow players) to them.

On a positive note me and my girlfriend did had to join a few groups to get our profession quests done and were lucky to have some very nice players in one group (the other runs went in complete silence so I guess that was ok too). So of course the "good folks" still exists ... but to me we are becomming an endangered spieces. At least in modern WoW

[Zyky]

I would think that 150 is a perfectly acceptable sample size when compared to 800?

It really isn't because a school with 150 students isn't as diverse as a school with 800. I graduated from a high school with 170 kids, there were 2 open gay guys in the entire school, under 5 black kids in the graduating class, one or two asians, zero indians, native americans, or muslims. It's not a good sample size at all to compare to a large school with a largely diverse system.

[Bildur]

If you're having a hard time just logging in then maybe you should stop. Come back when/if the game is better.

Sorry but you kinda missed the point of the OP

[arkanon]

It really isn't because a school with 150 students isn't as diverse as a school with 800. I graduated from a high school with 170 kids, there were 2 open gay guys in the entire school, under 5 black kids in the graduating class, one or two asians, zero indians, native americans, or muslims. It's not a good sample size at all to compare to a large school with a largely diverse system.

Who says the school with 800 kids would be any more diverse? Big gap in logic here. You are making a HUGE (and incorrect) leap in logic here - my school had 170 kids and this was the makeup - it was this makeup because it was this size. But that just isnt true. The demographics of a school have very little to do with its size, but rather its location. For example, a school located in a remote, rural setting will likely be predominantly white, as a large portion of farmers are white. There will be smaller numbers of other ethnicity and backgrounds, as those cultures are less likely to be drawn there for work. Whether that school has 30 kids, or 300 kids, the makeup will statistically be similar.

The breakdown of cultural and ethnic backgrounds has nothing to do with the number of students. Now, comparing a 170 kid RURAL school in a small rural town with a massive intercity school will yield VERY different results, but it has NOTHING to do with the SIZE of the school.

[Zyky]

Who says the school with 800 kids would be any more diverse? Big gap in logic here.

The school doesn't have 800, the graduating class does, please learn to read properly.

[arkanon]

The school doesn't have 800, the graduating class does, please learn to read properly.

Classic "im wrong but im just going to ignore all the points that prove im wrong, and instead focus in on a mistake that doesnt actually change the argument at all, and im still wrong"

Little quote for you "It really isn't because a school with 150 students isn't as diverse as a school with 800"

Thats you. You said that.

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I remember the good old days where you actually helped players get better instead of shitting on them at every turn. The sense of community in this game is dead. Waiting for classic.

I dont remember that AT ALL. Ever.

[Cien]

WoW has always been a toxic communtiy, in very small pockets you'll find a small great community. over the yeeears i've played, and all the interactions with the many players, a handful have been lasting friends since then.

a guy today got ripped in BG chat for going in with 104k hp, grossly undergeared, and got called out for it for bringing the team down, which is true. a low geared player is easy pickings and constantly dead isnt helping. i agreed with the other commenter and told the guy to get some easy quick gear from all the world quests and so started a bitchy defensive whisper fest attempting to then belittle me

it sucks but its the harsh reality, only a minority of players seem to be reasonably nice, vast majority are brainless toxic pools of mush who just exist to spread venom and attempt to upset you

[Zyky]

Little quote for you "It really isn't because a school with 150 students isn't as diverse as a school with 800"

Thats you. You said that.

Again you might want to learn how to read, why didn't you put the actual quote in? Because you're wrong, here I'll do it for you:

Comparing games that have literally 1/50th of WoWs playerbase is a very skewed comparison, just saying. That's like using a high school who's graduating senior class had 150 students to one that had 800+ students to compare bully rates.

I didn't say a school, I said graduating class and I didn't even say diverse until later.

Here let's change it up for you, since you can't read properly. It's a statistical fact that a school that has 2500 kids will have more diversity than a school that has 500. You can argue until you're blue in the face, it's statistically accurate and nothing you say can disprove that.

[arkanon]

Again you might want to learn how to read, why didn't you put the actual quote in? Because you're wrong, here I'll do it for you:



I didn't say a school, I said graduating class and I didn't even say diverse until later.

Here let's change it up for you, since you can't read properly. It's a statistical fact that a school that has 2500 kids will have more diversity than a school that has 500. You can argue until you're blue in the face, it's statistically accurate and nothing you say can disprove that.

You are confusing causation with correlation. You claim that if you extrapolate the statistics from a sample size of 150, to get an indication of what they would look like at 800, they are automatically wrong because 150 is not a large enough sample size to compare to 800. I am saying it absolutely is a large enough sample size.

You then went on to provide a personal story of you being in a school with 170 kids, and explained it was not very diverse. You wrongly make the assumption that this was caused by the school being quite small. I explained why this was wrong.

You jumped between a graduating class of 150, a school with 150, and a school with 170, and your only counter argument is "you cant read" despite yourself confusing school with graduating class multiple times.

So long as you are comparing apples with apples, 150 is a perfectly acceptable sample size when attempting to estimate results at 800.

Now please tell me how a school in urban china with 500 students would differ from one in the same urban center that has 2500 students. Same city, just a couple of KM down the road.

[trm90]

I agree in part. Finding a guild is the best way to experience WoW at its best (imo). Defenders will claim this isnt true but guilds are close to dead now. Obviously exceptions exist, and there are plenty of guilds still playing to this day - however it has become more and more obvious that Blizzards intention is to push the game further and further into the realm of "puggable" - Normal and heroic are ghost towns - and most guilds trying to recruit in those difficulties will find it exceedingly difficult finding ppl, let alone ppl who will stay for longer than 2 weeks.

I have a feeling this trend is gonna die down soon. We've seen how a lot of players are growing tired of MOBAs/OW, for example, because matchmaking team games with randoms almost inevitably leads to a ton of toxicity - it drives away new players, it's exhausting for veterans, and so on.

Personally, I couldn't play this game without a guild. It is 1000% better and less toxic when you have a regular group of people to play with. And I know a lot of people are shy, but man, this is an MMO. People need to learn to get comfortable asking to play with regular people and so on. I say this from experience, I stubbornly played solo in WoD for 6 months and almost quit because of the sheer toxicity of pugging H HFC. Found a guild, never looked back, my experience has improved massively in the last 3 years.

[Lei]

I remember the good old days where you actually helped players get better instead of shitting on them at every turn. The sense of community in this game is dead. Waiting for classic.

So you think JimmyTheJim who is an asshole in BfA will suddenly turn into the nicest guy while playing classic?

I really root for classic, but please don't be naive. JimmyTheJim will be nice to you if he has to lick your ass to get into your group. Switch it around and you'll be probably surprised.

Do you think there will be forgiveness and patience in classic? I'm willing to bet people will be like "lol, 15 years old game, you should know the tactics by now". And it kinda makes sense.

[arkanon]

I have a feeling this trend is gonna die down soon. We've seen how a lot of players are growing tired of MOBAs/OW, for example, because matchmaking team games with randoms almost inevitably leads to a ton of toxicity - it drives away new players, it's exhausting for veterans, and so on.

Personally, I couldn't play this game without a guild. It is 1000% better and less toxic when you have a regular group of people to play with. And I know a lot of people are shy, but man, this is an MMO. People need to learn to get comfortable asking to play with regular people and so on. I say this from experience, I stubbornly played solo in WoD for 6 months and almost quit because of the sheer toxicity of pugging H HFC. Found a guild, never looked back, my experience has improved massively in the last 3 years.

I really hope you are right. I think you are, and i hope you are. I have had the same guild and raid team since BC, so im very lucky, and they are the absolute only reason i still log in.

[Gray_Matter]

I no longer play WOW so take what I say with a pinch of salt. Regarding your first comment, it sometimes pays to take a break. You might find that coming back the game will be fresher.

For the rest of your post. The design of WOW doesn't help with the competitiveness of the game. The toxicity of the game happens in part because of how WOW was designed. You were constantly competing with people. There was competition for mining nodes and for loot. Everything about the game had to do with competing. A lot of that has changed now but in a way, that made people selfish. People have become less tolerant of others. They want to do everything as quickly as possible and get annoyed if anyone gets in the way of that goal. You see it with groups and LFR or dungeons. There isn't time to carry a new person. People are still competing to be better then the next person or in a hurry to do something. I am not sure what they are in a hurry for, it's been a long time since I last played.

For me, I just try to have fun in any game. The moment it feels like a job, then it's time for a break.

[ornichi]

I remember the good old days where you actually helped players get better instead of shitting on them at every turn. The sense of community in this game is dead. Waiting for classic.

yea, because classic will erase wowhead, mmo-champ, icy-veins, discord and suddenly make all players noob-friendly

[vertigo12]

I have a feeling this trend is gonna die down soon. We've seen how a lot of players are growing tired of MOBAs/OW, for example, because matchmaking team games with randoms almost inevitably leads to a ton of toxicity - it drives away new players, it's exhausting for veterans, and so on.

Personally, I couldn't play this game without a guild. It is 1000% better and less toxic when you have a regular group of people to play with. And I know a lot of people are shy, but man, this is an MMO. People need to learn to get comfortable asking to play with regular people and so on. I say this from experience, I stubbornly played solo in WoD for 6 months and almost quit because of the sheer toxicity of pugging H HFC. Found a guild, never looked back, my experience has improved massively in the last 3 years.

Theres a reason why a premade group exist prioe to queuing up for random whatever. Better yet invite tried and tested players who are also in your friends list in your party and queue up.

I never had problem playing solo or in a group setting, more so in a random "match up" for a group. Back in WotLK i ask Dalaran people if they are busy or not and if they are done with this kind of activity and I'm making a group. Feel free to join if we have the same thing in mind decline will the offer won't make me feel like being punched in the stomach. Even in VoA runs for the 3 bosses there after we took control of the place.

When I returned in BfA to try their returning player promo, I got a random invite from a guild and so far it was a food one.

[Stormcall]

But sadly, positive aspects to the game within the community, where they once were the rule, are exceptions now.

They certainly weren't the rule when I began playing in TBC, so it's been the exception for over 10 years now.

[PenguinChan]

yea, because classic will erase wowhead, mmo-champ, icy-veins, discord and suddenly make all players noob-friendly

Basically everything you just named existed in some form back in 2004 - 2006, except discord. People were dicks back then, there will be dicks now - Classic just has a game loop that actually promotes helping others simply due to how the systems work.

[Resheph]

yea, because classic will erase wowhead, mmo-champ, icy-veins, discord and suddenly make all players noob-friendly

No use arguing with them or giving them any rational arguments. It was never about anything rational, these people can't visualize or predict things based on real world data. They really cannot understand what a difference 15 years makes in a game and in gaming, and that they themselves are not 10 anymore either.