Another Case of Banning Trump Suppoorters From Non-Political Forums

[Milchshake]

The popular knitting site Ravelry (eight million followers) has banned expressions of support for Donald Trump or the Trump administration from its site.

• The ban is based on a pre-existing site policy banning support for white supremacy.
• It’s modeled on a similar ban put in place several months ago by RPG.net, a roleplaying game site.

Here’s the policy:

We are banning support of Donald Trump and his administration on Ravelry.

This includes support in the form of forum posts, projects, patterns, profiles, and all other content. Note that your project data will never be deleted. We will never delete your Ravelry project data for any reason and if a project needs to be removed from the site, we will make sure that you have access to your data. If you are permanently banned from Ravelry, you will still be able to access any patterns that you purchased. Also, we will make sure that you receive a copy of your data.

We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy.
Policy notes:

You can still participate if you do in fact support the administration, you just can’t talk about it here.
We are not endorsing the Democrats nor banning Republicans.

We are definitely not banning conservative politics. Hate groups and intolerance are different from other types of political positions.
We are not banning people for past support.

Do not try to weaponize this policy by entrapping people who do support the Trump administration into voicing their support.

Similarly, antagonizing conservative members for their unstated positions is not acceptable.

1. These aren’t government fora so there are no first amendment issues, although obviously these sorts of decisions implicate “free speech” in a broader cultural, as opposed to formal legal, sense.
2. I imagine very few people object in principle to sites such as these (that is, sites whose primary subject matter is non-political) banning the expression of certain sorts of political opinions, such as white supremacist opinions.

Would your favorite gaming forum benefit from such a policy?

Follow Up question; is knitting underrated as a hobby? I'm thinking all those twitch gamer reflexes would translate well into knitting.

[burzian]

No, not really. I'm totally fine with these kinds of bans, but what exactly are they in service of? If you want to offer an off-topic/politics forum, segregate it from the rest of the discussion areas, heavily moderate it, and then you're done.

Unless sites like this just don't want conservatives on them even outside of the separate political sewage area, in which case: rock on Ravelry.

[Amerissis]

Your title is wrong. They aren't banning Trump supporters, they are banning Trump support. As in, you can support him all you want, just not post about it.

I think it's fair. You can't post about wanting to push someone in the alligator pit, you can't post about endorsing a white supremacist who is fine with children dying in concentration camps.

[PACOX]

If it's a non-political forum then no one should know whether or not your a MAGA Hat unless you divulge that information.

Don't get political where the topic of politics isn't wanted and people will be fine.

[Independent voter]

A knitting site!

LOL

rpgnet.net was another site that banned Trump discussion. I guess it's their house, so to speak. But I think they should ban all political discussion to be fair.

[nymphetsss]

You ban all political discussion , banning one side is laughable

[Zelk]

Banning white supremacists? How Stalinist...

[Sliske]

1. Half of these forums would be dead without political talk. No one wants to talk with people that they agree with.


2. Banning Trump supporters on the grounds of white supremacy has a self fulfilling element to it. If you start heavily associating Trump with white supremacy, only 3 kinds of people will continue publicly supporting Trump - genuine white supremacists, people that are in your face and don't give a fuck, and people that don't know better.

This happened in the UK with Brexit. The far left started mass communicating that anyone pro-Brexit was a racist, so the only ones left that speak on the issue are people that will fight you to the ground and get dirty with you, like Nigel Farage, or actual racists. This leads to a very weird situation, where, from the outside, literally EVERYONE seems to be anti-Brexit, then we vote. What does the vote yield? The truth - that there is a massive, silent majority. A silent majority afraid to speak, for if they do, they will be called racist, which in 2019, is up there with being called a paedophile or a rapist.

3. If you're going to ban politics, ban politics. If you don't want the increase in traffic and would prefer a, to use the term unironically, safe space, then just ban politics. If you only ban one side, it creates a very toxic environment. take a look at r/the_donald r/politics r/latestagecapitalism. These are subreddits that are massively one sided and it creates an extremely toxic environment that feeds and accelerates extremism. If there is no one around to check your bullshit, you're going to keep edging closer and closer to the far right or far left.

The best example i can think of of this is r/cringeanarchy, which i think is now banned. Basically, there is this sub called r/cringe. In this sub, you post cringe videos and pictures. Well, as we all know, feminists and SJWs can be cringe. So when the mods started banning these posts, cringeanarchy was created. Cringe anarchy, with its massively one sided political ideology, started creeping further and further to the right and at the last time i checked, almost every post was making fun of black people, with the comments all straight up calling them the N word. Simultaneously, the original cringe subreddit crept further and further to the left, and now most if not all posts there are heavily aimed at making fun of right wingers or other enemies of SJWs, such as incels or 'sceptics.'

4. Knitting is a trash hobby. You buy a bunch of expensive wool and spend weeks just to make something that a machine can make in 15 minutes.

[Flarelaine]

Your title is wrong. They aren't banning Trump supporters, they are banning Trump support. As in, you can support him all you want, just not post about it.

I've seen some photos from the site which is fundamentally for sharing patterns or completed knitting projects. Apparently, Trump/MAGA sweaters were catching a lot of flak.

[Daedius]

I would be up for banning all things Trump, and that includes all discussions of him. Sick of it on these forums with the amount of posters that get a hardcore boner of all these Trump.

[rogueMatthias]

LMAO Because Trump's a "White supremacist"?

Jesus, people really hit the kool-aid hard with propaganda in the US don't they. He's obviously a casual racist at best, but he's as much a white supremacist as Obama was a black supremacist or Muslim sympathiser.

1. Half of these forums would be dead without political talk. No one wants to talk with people that they agree with.

Nobody wants to listen to other view points either though. The political forum threads are mostly just everybody reeing at any one with a different view than their own, or once anyone with different opinions is driven out they just become a big circle jerk.

Fundamentally the problem today is that so many people are so egoistical, and so sure of themselves and their OPINIONS, reinforced in their own bubbles, that they can't reasonably see how anyone could possibly share differing views to their own without having something fundamentally wrong with that person - Be they a SJW, libtard racist, nazi, paid russian troll etc.

This happened in the UK with Brexit. The far left started mass communicating that anyone pro-Brexit was a racist, so the only ones left that speak on the issue are people that will fight you to the ground and get dirty with you, like Nigel Farage, or actual racists. This leads to a very weird situation, where, from the outside, literally EVERYONE seems to be anti-Brexit, then we vote. What does the vote yield? The truth - that there is a massive, silent majority. A silent majority afraid to speak, for if they do, they will be called racist, which in 2019, is up there with being called a paedophile or a rapist.

It's the same with this. Remainers can't comprehend that anyone could have any reasoning for a different opinion than their own, unless that person was a racist or moron that fell for bus-propaganda.

I don't think it's JUST the lack of people willing to talk though. The media's chosen their side in these debates and will actively propgate viewpoints it agrees with, and demonise those it doesn't.

IF you look at Brexit then it's ALWAYS fucking Farage. Over 50% of the vote was for Brexit, including some big names in business. BUT if a paper or talkshows wants someone to talk about it they whip out Farage, because most (even a lot of pro-Breixters) can't stand him. Even when he wasn't in UKIP and didn't have the Brexit party, the BBC had him a record 33 times on Question Time. Why not the leaders of UKIP or literally t ANY other Brexiters? It's all about controlling the public view.

(Which has massively backfired, as they've built a whole cult of personality for him now)

3. If you're going to ban politics, ban politics. If you don't want the increase in traffic and would prefer a, to use the term unironically, safe space, then just ban politics. If you only ban one side, it creates a very toxic environment. take a look at r/the_donald r/politics r/latestagecapitalism. These are subreddits that are massively one sided and it creates an extremely toxic environment that feeds and accelerates extremism. If there is no one around to check your bullshit, you're going to keep edging closer and closer to the far right or far left.

The funny part is that they've not banned discussing or talking about Trump, just any views on him or his actions that aren't critical. If you want to make the ultimate bubble of viewpoints then that's how you go about it.

I'd be all down for banning all Trump talk entirely. Brexit talk too please! I'm sick of it all.

[Knolan]

Either ban all political topics or don't ban any, choosing one is very unfair and will likely hurt you back in the future.

[Doctor Amadeus]

If it's a private site yep, however in general yes I also support it.

I mean personally I see MAGA Supporters in the same camp as the KKK or Nazis so yeah.

However let's isolate the situation for more context. If it's in a public setting I think it's prudent depending on the situation.


I'll give an example, lets say someone has a picture of Mohammed, or a t shirt with Hillary Clinton, or a shirt that says MAGA, in Public should it be banned.

I would say MAYBE in each of those circumstances, it has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with the message or ideas being expressed, in fact I support someone who wants to take that on in general. Protest in my opinion is GOOD.

But if doing so means that allowing such expression is going to immediately provoke a situation that is known to for sure involve violence and a serious threat to human beings, then I can certainly see why some might choose to pump the the breaks.


Sometimes it isn't always about people being right or wrong, sometimes it's about the wrong time the wrong place. And in terms of the public good safety I think should override a general rule.

Keep in mind that would be and should be a very very rare situation.


Otherwise in public, it is what it is, if you don't like what someone is wearing, use your right legally to express that OR simply turn around and look somewhere else.


Most things are black and white, but sometimes there are small variables

[Mistame]

I stopped reading at "popular knitting".

[cubby]

OMFG - a privately owned website is enforcing rules on it's forum!!! What the fuck are we going to do about this?!?!?!?

Lol - what really surprises me about this is that there 8MM followers on a knitting site.

[Citizen T]

A discussion can be made about whether a site should or should not allow political discussion one sided or at all, but please steer clear of racial discussion.

[PC2]

lol so they ban Trump support. That just means people make criticism-based arguments towards Democrats and the next candidate rather than a support-based argument.

[Adam Jensen]

If that's how they want their forums to be, then that's on them. If they gain or lose users, that's their own choice.

I bet it's more likely they don't want flamewars between Trumpists and anti-Trumpists and would rather their topics just stick to knitting and/or non political things.

[Ooid]

God help them if they ever have to deal with an actual authoritarian.

[Endus]

1. These aren’t government fora so there are no first amendment issues, although obviously these sorts of decisions implicate “free speech” in a broader cultural, as opposed to formal legal, sense.
2. I imagine very few people object in principle to sites such as these (that is, sites whose primary subject matter is non-political) banning the expression of certain sorts of political opinions, such as white supremacist opinions.

1> No, they don't. This is literally Ravelry's own free speech, expressed. Also, their freedom of association. No one's freedoms are being curtailed, here.

2> Why would we? It's their site. Go use another site.

Would your favorite gaming forum benefit from such a policy?

That'd be this one, and it already has rules against hate speech.

I might disagree that support for Trump automatically counts as white supremacist support, but I'm not Ravelry staff, and they're free to make their own decisions in that regard.