Should Antifa be classified as a terrorist organization?

[JohnBrown1917]

What’s opposite of fascism? Don’t just say communism... I want you to contrast the difference between fascism and China’s government, based on issues you hold most important.

Anarcho-communism and other strains of anarchism are(not including anarcho-"""""capitalism"""""). I would argue that China is fascist in itself, it shows all the signs. The non-chinese people(Tibet, muslim groups etc) get repressed and put into concentration camps and nationalism is a huge thing.

[Felya]

Communism is indeed the opposite of fascism.

That means you don’t know...

- - - Updated - - -

Anarcho-communism and other strains of anarchism are(not including anarcho-"""""capitalism"""""). I would argue that China is fascist in itself, it shows all the signs. The non-chinese people(Tibet, muslim groups etc) get repressed and put into concentration camps and nationalism is a huge thing.

That’s why I specifically said, don’t just say communism. China isn’t the utopian form of communism, which would be opposite of fascism. But, the consolidation of power that happens, before communism reaches the utopian state, is pretty much fascism. Just a reminder... Communism has yet to ever reach its utopian state, which kinda means that in practice, it’s always been fascist.

[Darkined]

Communism is the complete opposite since it strives to put that power into the hands of the many.
They do not try to turn hatred onto defenseless minorities, they do not focus on nationalism, and they certainly don't get support from the ruling elite.

And so... you think the People's Republic of China is a fit for what you just described?

[Felya]

Fascism is the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. It's a tool designed to fight the proletarian revolution.

You need to reword this, because it doesn’t seem like there is a difference, but I know what you mean

In this regard, what does government become, prior to reaching the utopian, bourgeoisie free state? The reason why communism dissolves the government in its final state, is because Marxist definition of bourgeois, means that government is inherently bourgeoisie. As long as you have government, there will be an upper class that controls means of production. It’s not the proletariat that controls means of production in China... is it?

It's a populist movement that focuses righteous anger (due to material conditions) onto innocent and defenseless minority groups.
It takes the anger people have for their employer, and turned it onto Jews, and now onto Muslims.
It promotes nationalism because that way it's easy to denounce everyone as a traitor to the country whenever they disagree with fascist policies.
Because they intend to keep the true power in the hands of a select few, they get the full (financial) support of this ruling power.

China does every single thing you mentioned. How exactly does any of this, not reflect China? Has China’s government decided who the next reincarnation of Dalai Lama will be? I’m guessing that’s still a secret...

Communism is the complete opposite since it strives to put that power into the hands of the many.

How exactly has China done this? These safety nets, are to catch “the many” jumping out of windows, while working for FoxConn:

They do not try to turn hatred onto defenseless minorities, they do not focus on nationalism, and they certainly don't get support from the ruling elite.

But, again... that’s not what’s happening in China...

Words have meaning.

Yeah, I wasn’t going to say it, since it’s so pejorative. But, with the abundance of information on the internet, it’s an absolute shame that one cannot explain their assertions. You still have not explained how China is the opposite of fascism, but did exactly what I said not to do... just say “communism”... because apparently political theory is closer to reality, than the actual practice there of.

Utopian communism is the opposite of fascism. In practice, including China, Cuba and USSR, they never make it out of the state of communism, that seems a lot like fascism.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter what I think.
What matters is what the citizens of the PRC think, and they are more happy with their country than anyone in the west has ever been with their country for decades.

And I think that is the most important lesson we can learn from all of this: It really really does not matter what you people think. You're only 20% of the world.

No... it doesn’t matter what we think, because we are... 0.00000... a lot of 000000... 01% of the world. We are actually equal in this regard... at least my office space is designed for a collaborative, agile environment... not one trying to catch my coworkers from committing suicide out of office windows.

[Mayhem]

Oh boy, Kangodo embracing chinas one-party rule over the country.

So, the clampdown on Muslim minorities is just made up? Everything's peachy over there? 80% love their government so they must be awesome? Or might it be that they are living in fear of talking freely?

[downnola]

Aah, how typically anarchist of you.
Supporting US imperialism against those scary non-white people.

Wait a minute.. Ultranationalist AND pretending to be socialist? Don't we have a name for that? Didn't we have a movement like that in Germany?

How is he supporting U.S. "imperialism" by calling China out for what it is? Are you incapable of analyzing a countries politics without considering it's opposition to the U.S.? Christ, tankies are insufferable.

[downnola]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryJteQTPBlU

Aah yes, we are the insufferable ones.
You act very hostile though, I'm sensitive to that :')

Way to evade the questions. I'll pass on wasting time watching that video if you can't even be bothered to provide context for linking it.

[Ihavewaffles]

Random dude gets hit by a flying rock and doesn't even get a bruise: "OMG ANTIFA ARE A BUNCH OF VIOLENT TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!111one"

Alt right guy runs over 60+ people with his car, killing 1: "Guys you can't judge a group of people by just one person's actions, and besides he was just a lone wolf anyway, even though he was part of an alt right neo nazi group."

There's a pattern of running over people? Otherwise guy is a lone wolf.

[Slybak]

RE: China and its relationship to "authentic" Comminism, more people should read the work of Ben Anderson, a Marxist scholar who tried to square the facts that a whole bunch of countries in East and Southeast Asia were ostensibly run by proponents of Marxism but constantly ended up as mutual antagonists. Why, for example, the Laotian Communists hated the Vietnamese Communists who themselves hated the Chinese Communists (and who all hated the Cambodian Communists who themselves hated everyone else).

The answer, obvious in hindsight, is that even putatively Marxist movements can become suffused with nationalist sentiment, even and in fact especially when those movements themselves arise from anti-/post-colonial struggles for independence from foreign oppressors.

You can draw a fairly straight line from Mao's primary criticism of Chiang and the Nationalists being that they were the pawns of Western Imperialism, to Tienammen Square, to Falun Gong, the their hovering authoritarianism over Hong Kong, to their grotesque treatment of Central Asian Muslims. All entail the foreignization of political adversaries and "problem" populations. The original enemy was foreign, ergo all enemies must be foreign. The barbarism proceeds from that stance.

[DarkTZeratul]

How is he supporting U.S. "imperialism" by calling China out for what it is? Are you incapable of analyzing a countries politics without considering it's opposition to the U.S.? Christ, tankies are insufferable.

Remember that Kangodo will vehemently defend North fucking Korea for being a bastion of utopian paradise for its citizens that is slandered with awful lies by the evil United States, and you'll realize that engaging him on anything related to communism is a completely wasted effort.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

kangodo.

Leave these forums, no one wants you here.

[Ihavewaffles]

kangodo.

Leave these forums, no one wants you here.

I disagree strongly.

[downnola]

Because I would school your ass on a subject you have zero knowledge about.

So, now that everyone had their turn insulting me or making personal attacks in another way, can we continue with the ACTUAL thread?

Aww, poor baby did someone disagree with you? How hostile and awful. :'(

[mvaliz]

Fascism is the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. It's a tool designed to fight the proletarian revolution.

((China's having hit-squads attack Hong-Kong protesters ATM)) - CHECK!

It's a populist movement that focuses righteous anger (due to material conditions) onto innocent and defenseless minority groups.

((Have you not read of the Muslim correction/conversion camps, or understand the 1-china policy? Many many Tibetans would like to have a word with you)) - CHECK!

It takes the anger people have for their employer, and turned it onto Jews, and now onto Muslims.

((Again, see above about Muslims and Tibetans)) - CHECK!

It promotes nationalism because that way it's easy to denounce everyone as a traitor to the country whenever they disagree with fascist policies.

((China literally just stated this morning about the protesters that "those who play with fire will perish by it!")) - CHECK!!

Because they intend to keep the true power in the hands of a select few, they get the full (financial) support of this ruling power.

((Ji-Ji Ping just a few months ago declared himself the Prime Minister for life)) - final CHECK!!

Communism is the complete opposite since it strives to put that power into the hands of the many.
They do not try to turn hatred onto defenseless minorities, they do not focus on nationalism, and they certainly don't get support from the ruling elite.

Communism, by definition - but clearly China is not doing YOUR definition of Communism these days. Maybe several years ago - but not today - not anymore...

[Slybak]

I mean if you're a Communist the example you're looking to defend from an extra-national right-wing threat is Rojava, aka the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, not the PRC.

Right-wingers are too busy either taking advantage of the PRC's low-wage labor system or applauding its oppression of Central Asian Muslims to want to destroy them, but they're absolutely giddy at the prospect of ending a real and durable multi-ethnic communitarian democracy in the the Middle East, and its appalling that tankies would join them in that cause because Rojavan militias accepted assistance from "Western Imperialists" in their struggle against ISIS and Assad.

[mvaliz]

Those protesters are not the "proletarian revolution".


There are no concentration camps, the majority of the world (including every Islamic country) agrees on that.
Oh do they? Because the vast majority of the Tibetans prefer the current government.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirm...ction_in_China
Once again, you are wrong.

Because the majority of the country, and of Hong Kong, are sick and tired of them.

He didn't, but okay.

Summary: Every single "check" you made is bullshit. It's blindly parroting Fox News or CNN, your pick on which ultranationalist propaganda channel you want to follow.

...gah? NONE OF WHAT YOU WROTE IS TRUE! Dafuq is wrong with you!? o_O

They have the camps - notice you wrote "concentration camps" - I didn't say that, I wrote "correction/conversion camps", despite being the same thing - that's the legaleaze. But it's the same damn thing, and you damn well know that! It's a VERY well documented problem!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjia...ducation_camps

Christ, that's damn near holocaust-denying levels of idiocy you're displaying! >_<

Dude, the Dahli Lama and the former Buddhists aren't welcome in China... not a few years ago they blew up all the Tibettan Buddhist statues! ((By "Tibetans" I meant Buddhists, and you damn well know that! >_<))
https://freetibet.org/about/dalai-lama

As for Xi-Ji ping not being declared Prime Minister for life!? Are you High!?! o_O
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43361276

[mvaliz]

Ah yes, Wikipedia is never wrong.

...you quoted Wikipedia in your "Afirmative Action" bullshit in the very previous post!!! dafuk? Are you just Trolling for the sake of Trolling!?! o_O

You can't just write "That link is bullshit" and then not back it up - that's worse than a damn Dumpster! Any damn google search you like comes up with any more reputable sources out there! >_<

Jesus - you were a really insufferable and disingenuous "protect-my-pride-at-all-costs" person to discuss shit with back when they announced Pandaria, and you've only gotten worse since then... it's people like you why I left this damn forum, thanks for the reminder! Welcome to the ignore list... it was a looong time coming! >_<

[Grimbold21]

I put zero trust in Wikipedia when it's used to attack countries outside of the NATO-bubble.
Wikipedia isn't "the truth".
Wikipedia is "whatever people believe in the west".

Give it ten years and Wiki's main page on climate change says it's not happening.

I backed it up. I debunked it with two simple arguments:
1. Age limit.
2. Re-election.
And I will throw in a bone for free: Most countries have no term limits.
You can leave again, I don't think anyone missed you.

Translation of any Kangodo post (not that we're not familiar with them by now )

"Your sources are wrong because: they're western; they do not fit my narrative; they burst the bubble which I live in"

[Felya]

I am enjoying this thread in contrast to white nationalists only killing less than 180 people in 8 years thread. Of course in that thread, those murders are used to excuse the murderers, not demand that white nationalist be a terrorist group.

Please, same people excusing murder by white nationalists, please tell us more about the terror of milk shakes.

[mvaliz]

Please, same people excusing murder by white nationalists, please tell us more about the terror of milk shakes.

Dude, are you aware how many lactose-intolerant people there are IRL? If we allow the fictional-Antifa Boogyman to use Milkshakes, they may upgrade to Starbucks chilled mocha-Lattés... and then it's only a matter of time until they start busting out the Dairy Queen Peanut-buster Parfaits! By then, it's too late to call out the national guards... >.>