Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[JohnBrown1917]

You mean like rules making here in Illinois where medicaid covers all trans care now? Who typically uses medicaid, btw? Poor people.

Are you certain a court system stacked by Trump is going to allow such care to occur in a federal universal healthcare system in the middle of a policy street fight to implement it? Because the Republicans sure sued and then wrote out such coverage from the ACA.

Your policies are risky as hell.

Sanders can stack the courts too.

Everything carries a risk, you just don't like them because they affect your privileged position in a way that provides the large amount of underprivileged people a better shot at life.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

That's were I am about this point. The last thing we need is another 4 years of twitter buffoonery from the Presidency.
Bernie keeps doubling down on the professional trolls in his senior staff. That is insight to Bernies thought and character.

Therein lies my concern. I'm extremely worried (and I suspect HRC is as well) about the people he has chosen to surround himself with. That concerns me way more than any endorsement specifically because LGBTQ rights won't be fought over in the legislature this go around. We need the ear of anyone he puts into office at the DoJ, HHS, and DoE.

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Sanders can stack the courts too.

Not in the next four years.

Everything carries a risk, you just don't like them because they affect your privileged position in a way that provides the large amount of underprivileged people a better shot at life.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. We're not a priority, so why should I listen to you?

[Fabray]

That’s an exceptionally wordy way of phrasing “racists and other assorted bigots”.

Like I said, it does not help the Bro image surrounding his campaign. Especially since his supporters have done a complete about face with regards to purity testing simply because Rogan agrees with them economically - in other words, exactly what his campaign is being accused of in terms of insensitivity to minority issues.

I was wavering with regards to my primary vote prior to this, but I cannot in good conscience vote for Bernie save as a last resort over Biden simply because of the clear risk that his camp is going to open the door to a virulently chauvinistic brand of leftism.

This is why we can’t have nice things...just wow...

[Spectral]

Getting bent out of shape that Joe Rogan likes Sanders and doesn't think biological males should fight women is a great example of why this thread is indeed the Democratic 2020 Primary Shitshow Thread.

[starlord]

Getting bent out of shape that Joe Rogan likes Sanders and doesn't think biological males should fight women is a great example of why this thread is indeed the Democratic 2020 Primary Shitshow Thread.

not giving a shit about minorities is a big reason why people don't like republicans in the first place. so when leftists come and lecture about how "identity politics dont matter" etc it leaves a pretty sour taste.

[starlord]

Sanders has done more for minorities than any other democratic candidate or senator in the entire government. That is why -dun dun- minority senators are endorsing him.

This just are pathetic attempts by corporate media to try and fool gullible and useful dolts.

Here is a nice cartoon that about sums up what is going on right now:

https://i.gyazo.com/0dbc2c0d0d4f2f80...e8273c70a6.png

so your excuse for using racial slurs is "its okay because i support bernie"?

[starlord]

Are you still upset because I called Obama an "Uncle Tom for neoliberals"? You can be upset about it as much as you want, it's the truth and it won't take away from me still supporting minorities despite you claiming until you're blue and purple that I don't. Neoliberals faking they care for the working people and minorities don't hold a monopoly on caring for minorities.

you know who else insults minorities while claiming to support them? trump.

[Skroe]

What emergencies is there now to deploy troops at the border? build the wall? Bernie can just up the ante and take it a step further, what is congress going to do exactly to stop him? impeach him? good luck with that after Trump. There's no consequence for a president violating the law especially with congressional funding, President Bernie Sanders can easily sell this to the nation.

Also good luck convincing people getting free shit is worth impeaching him over, Bernie has the same anti establishment cred that Trump does except without all the lying and corruption. There are no longer any limits it's not magic it's reality and this is coming from someone who doesn't wish that.

A President can deploy Troops easily. That's firmly within the bounds of executive authority. As is moving around a few billion dollars here and there as delegated by Congress.

You are living in an absolute fantasy land if you think that is anywhere close to creating a vast new government program and moving around a trillion dollars. Like, if you actually thing that, then you have no clue how government works and what the President has access to and why. It's as simple as that. Bernie cannot declare a national emergency and suddenly have $1 trillion for M4A delivered to him. That's just... not how anything works. It isn't even how Trump gets his pocket change for the fence he insists on calling a wall because his imagined wall would cost far more than he could get from reprogramming limited defense funds.

It's not happening. Get used to it.

[starlord]

Which of the current democratic candidates got arrested for supporting minorities?

I only know of one.

Who are the pretenders here?

thats doesnt give you or him any right to attack others based on minority status for political gain.

[Draco-Onis]

A President can deploy Troops easily. That's firmly within the bounds of executive authority. As is moving around a few billion dollars here and there as delegated by Congress.

You are living in an absolute fantasy land if you think that is anywhere close to creating a vast new government program and moving around a trillion dollars. Like, if you actually thing that, then you have no clue how government works and what the President has access to and why. It's as simple as that. Bernie cannot declare a national emergency and suddenly have $1 trillion for M4A delivered to him. That's just... not how anything works. It isn't even how Trump gets his pocket change for the fence he insists on calling a wall because his imagined wall would cost far more than he could get from reprogramming limited defense funds.

It's not happening. Get used to it.

I see why we don't see eye to eye you are thinking just starting it would be a trillion dollar program nope all you need is to build the skeleton for m4all and that doesn't take trillions of dollars just a few billions. The president right now can use DHS and the ACA to convert it to a start up m4all program using executive orders by itself. You don't need a bomb to start a fire just a spark.

[Milchshake]

/e Guy from denmark pretending in a american accent

"Hey, marginalized people I hear your concerns but EYE think this is actually what's best for you. Just endure this trauma and take it for the team and the betterment of the people who REALLY matter i.e. white people." - Bernie Sanders and his followers since 2015

The last 24 hours caused REAL harm and trauma to marginalized people and yall really don't care, man. Yall don't give a shit about us so just stop pretending

[starlord]

Which is luckily only happening in corporate-media fantasy land.

its so easy to deflect any criticism to the nebulous "corporate media" isn't it?

[Skroe]

I see why we don't see eye to eye you are thinking just starting it would be a trillion dollar program nope all you need is to build the skeleton for m4all and that doesn't take trillions of dollars just a few billions. The president right now can use DHS and the ACA to convert it to a start up m4all program using executive orders by itself. You don't need a bomb to start a fire just a spark.

First, without the legal authority to reprogram money in any fashion, the President can't do it. The end.

Trump can do it with defense because Congress writes that into their annual appropriation bill for Defense. That does not exists for Health and Human Services in the same manner. With the absence of that authority, it doesn't happen.

Secondly, moving the 290 million of Americans who are NOT on Medicare (44 million, 15% of the population, are on medicare) to M4A would cost a hundreds of billions of dollars, as a start. Not "a few billions". And only one in 10 beneficiaries rely solely on Medicare. 9 in 10 use supplemental insurance too. So expanding Medicare won't even be true single-payer.

https://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/hea...9_medicare.pdf

The things you propose with the ACA and DHS can only be done by Congress, not by executive order. There is no money, and no spending authority. That is something WAY too many people in this forum do not understand. In the United States, unlike all other countries in the world, the legislature just doesn't appropriate funds, but holds a separate vote to authorize how they are to be used. This oftentimes creates the circumstance where programs are authorized to spend more or less than they are appropriated.

It's truly clear you have no idea how to achieve Medicare For All. Or even how it would work. You just want it for some reason. You don't even understand the scale of the own program you want to push. *facepalm*

This is literally the problem and why President Bernie Sanders would be a failed President from the outset. Because wanting something isn't enough. It will never be enough. And the "Trump Precedent" is no precedent at all.

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The truth is a very powerful weapon. It berns through all the lies.

And the Truth is also, unless Bernie can turn around what the map looks like by Super Tuesday (March 3rd) and by that I mean, turn projected vast losses to Biden and Warren splitting the vote to significant victories, he's unofficially toast by the end of that day, and mathematically toast by the end of that Month.

But I look forward to that point being ignored and the cult believing that Saint Bernie has a fighting chance all the way to the end of May.

Honestly I'm getting deja vu. Back in 2016 to Bernie supporters I said "Super Tuesday is going to torpedo him unless he turns this around" for three straight months. Nobody cared. And then, sure enough, Super Tuesday came around and he was essentially vanquished.

Well the exact thing is going to happen here. Nobody gets to be the nominee unless they clean up Super Tuesday or at least, fight to a tie. And right now, per my earlier post, Bernie is looking at going into Super Tuesday starting from a narrow deficit vs Biden, to a nearly 300 delegate deficit that only widens over the rest of March. It widens to the point that Bernie would need to clean up states of the union that don't exist that have as many delegates as Texas, in order to even the score.

Damn the beliefs, he simply cannot exit Super Tuesday that far behind. There are no opportunities to recover.

But i expect that point to be ignored again, because Sanderistas never have a plan to actually win... just make a lot of noise. And when they lose they'll blame some scapegoat for the fact that most people are turned off by their cult and Bernie couldn't win states. Not Saint Bernie though.

Thank god 2020 represents the end of his Presidential ambitions.

[Elegiac]

This is why we can’t have nice things...just wow...

What, because I’m not in the mind to let a bunch of cis white dudes tell minorities that their concerns are marginal?

Y’all are just really giving away the game with this sudden call for compromise when you’ve done nothing but bitch out other progressives for being insufficiently left.

[Milchshake]

What, because I’m not in the mind to let a bunch of cis white dudes tell minorities that their concerns are marginal?

Y’all are just really giving away the game with this sudden call for compromise when you’ve done nothing but bitch out other progressives for being insufficiently left.

Any hope that Joe Biden can pull Bernie to the left on this issue?

Joe Biden (Text Join to 30330)

‏Verified account
@JoeBiden
Let’s be clear: Transgender equality is the civil rights issue of our time. There is no room for compromise when it comes to basic human rights.

10:20 AM - 25 Jan 2020

Also Joe Biden

[Elegiac]

Who is even saying that?

What I am getting from all this though is that some people apparently instead are fine with letting worker rights get marginalized?

Every Bernie Bro in this thread, Twitter, comments sections of publications, etc?

The excuse for Bernie’s campaign touting this endorsement is that “Joe Rogan appeals to people skeptical of the SJW agenda”. First off, “SJW agenda” is itself a right wing talking point, known more commonly as ‘civil liberties’. Secondly it underscores the main criticism people have of Bernie in that he reduces every issue to a question of economic inequality and ignores minority issues that aren’t economy adjacent - such as this implicit belief that it doesn’t matter if Bernie’s campaign is platforming a transphobe because Sanders’ economic policies will somehow magically make bigotry go away.

It’s funny how all the Bros calling for compromise always seem to be offering other people’s rights as bargaining chips, never their own.

[JohnBrown1917]

Who is even saying that?

What I am getting from all this though is that some people apparently instead are fine with letting worker rights get marginalized?

All they care about is big companies putting up a rainbow flag for 1 month a year and promoting politicians who only started supporting LGBT rights when it became a very popular subject. Biden even used to support "don't ask, don't tell", but somehow he is a better pick LGBT rights than those who have been fighting for those rights for decades.

Its just a bunch of white liberals who are well off so they can ignore everything that actually causes suffering, only supporting easy 'fixes'.

[Elegiac]

All they care about is big companies putting up a rainbow flag for 1 month a year and promoting politicians who only started supporting LGBT rights when it became a very popular subject.

Lol. Are you seriously trying to hetsplain my own positions on LGBT issues to me, a gay man?

I was backing the ALP when it was still part of Socialist International. Don't try to red rag me as if I'm some right wing chud, sweetheart.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

All they care about is big companies putting up a rainbow flag for 1 month a year and promoting politicians who only started supporting LGBT rights when it became a very popular subject.

So, you have a problem with those of us who support putting pressure on business in this country to hire LGBTQ people in an era where large swaths of the country can fire us for existing?

How much, exactly, should we sacrifice so you can smash capitalism?

[Wilian]

We live in a world where a person who has dedicated his entire life for minority rights and worker rights being blasted by priviledged liberals so they can snort their smugfarts while giving their support to people and companies with abysmal track record because they're being lip-served to.