Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Fugus]

she can stay in as long as she's able to. same as every other candidate. how that benefits other candidates is irrelevant.

How that hurts the will of the voters does. I am not faulting her for staying in. So long as she sees a path to victory, I would say for all of them to stay.

I am saying that once one finds themselves in a position where they stand no chance, they should back out because our system isn't ranked choice and your presence at that point it just hurting those most like you.

If we had ranked choice, none of what I am saying would matter, but since we don't it very much does.


For a positive example. It would be like if a heavily religious right wing nazi started running as an independent in the election to the point it poached enough votes from Trump that a Democrat won, even if Trump had a majority (Fat chance of that but just for this example).

I don't want Sanders or Warren taking the most electable of them out because of the flaw in the system.

- - - Updated - - -

Really?

Really.

Here's you complaining that Warren is acting as a spoiler.

Reread what I said. I said if she is doing that bad. As in, no real path to victory as it stands. Reread the second half of what you just quoted to explain that.

TRY AGAIN....

And here's you lying, to boot, since you did no such thing when Warren was the frontrunner and Bernie had his heart attack. You literally just complained about Warren being a former Republican.

And you just put your foot in your mouth with that one. Now, before you swallow that foot, check my post history of around the time Sanders had his heart attack, I even mentioned him dropping out and backing Warren. And even then, that was before a single vote was cast.

YOU are the one lying throughout this thing trying to twist what others say.

[Shadowferal]

How that hurts the will of the voters does. I am not faulting her for staying in. So long as she sees a path to victory, I would say for all of them to stay.

You're in NC?
If I recall it wouldn't have mattered much whether you voted for Clinton or not. Trump had something like 4 percentage points over her. That was too significant.

[starlord]

How that hurts the will of the voters does. I am not faulting her for staying in. So long as she sees a path to victory, I would say for all of them to stay.

I am saying that once one finds themselves in a position where they stand no chance, they should back out because our system isn't ranked choice and your presence at that point it just hurting those most like you.

If we had ranked choice, none of what I am saying would matter, but since we don't it very much does.


For a positive example. It would be like if a heavily religious right wing nazi started running as an independent in the election to the point it poached enough votes from Trump that a Democrat won, even if Trump had a majority (Fat chance of that but just for this example).

I don't want Sanders or Warren taking the most electable of them out because of the flaw in the system.

- - - Updated - - -

Really.


Reread what I said. I said if she is doing that bad. As in, no real path to victory as it stands. Reread the second half of what you just quoted to explain that.

TRY AGAIN....



And you just put your foot in your mouth with that one. Now, before you swallow that foot, check my post history of around the time Sanders had his heart attack, I even mentioned him dropping out and backing Warren. And even then, that was before a single vote was cast.

YOU are the one lying throughout this thing trying to twist what others say.

yes, candidates do drop out once they have reached a point of being unable to continue. warren has not reached that point yet. it has nothing to do with bernie. "the will of the voters" for now is that she continues.

[Elegiac]

Really.

Reread what I said. I said if she is doing that bad. As in, no real path to victory as it stands. Reread the second half of what you just quoted to explain that.

TRY AGAIN....

Look, a pithy little disclaimer like that doesn't detract from the point. It kinda reinforces it since the fact you feel the need to bring it up at all shows that you don't think there's a path to victory for Warren.

Which, given everything else you say regarding spoiler candidates, would lead to the entirely reasonable conclusion that you personally think Warren is acting as a spoiler.

And you just put your foot in your mouth with that one. Now, before you swallow that foot, check my post history of around the time Sanders had his heart attack, I even mentioned him dropping out and backing Warren. And even then, that was before a single vote was cast.

YOU are the one lying throughout this thing trying to twist what others say.

My mistake, I must have confused you with the other Bernie Bros.

[Fugus]

You're in NC?
If I recall it wouldn't have mattered much whether you voted for Clinton or not. Trump had something like 4 percentage points over her. That was too significant.

Yes, I am in the district that needed the special election.

Also, off topic but, did you ever play a feral druid on the old Alter of Storms server?

[breadisfunny]

then thats the way the cookie crumbles if a candidate in particular can't get enough support to become the majority. thats how primaries work.
nothing stops people from writing in warren for president either.

except the people screaming from the rooftops that a 3rd party vote is akin to a vote for x.

[Fugus]

Look, a pithy little disclaimer like that doesn't detract from the point. It kinda reinforces it since the fact you feel the need to bring it up at all shows that you don't think there's a path to victory for Warren.

Which, given everything else you say regarding spoiler candidates, would lead to the entirely reasonable conclusion that you personally think Warren is acting as a spoiler.



My mistake, I must have confused you with the other Bernie Bros.

My personal view, I don't see a path of victory for Warren with how things are right now. Her destroying Bloomberg in the debate will definitely get her some support but her flip flopping on Medicare for All, and I recently read about her starting to accept Super PAC support will hurt her far more than that helps her.

I also see her potentially acting as a spoiler. But that is subjective. Whether she actually does it or not, remains to be seen.

If she honestly sees a path for her to win, I will not fault her for staying, I only fault her if she tries to stay after the point where no one really sees her as having a chance to the point it hurts those most like her.

I am not a Bernie or Bust person, I will gladly support the winner, the only reason why I didn't vote Clinton in the last one was because of Clinton's actions with when she took Debbie into her campaign the same day she had to step down, as too much of a snub to her voters for me to back that. I was willing to hold my nose up until that point. She lost my vote, not the actions or words of Sanders.

[starlord]

except the people screaming from the rooftops that a 3rd party vote is akin to a vote for x.

does that hurt people's feelings or something?

[breadisfunny]

I'll say once again.

Of everyone on that stage, Warren would by FAR the most effective President for the time we're in to address the actual issues that got us Trump. Things a President could actually do. Of everyone on that stage, she gets it the most. Biden thinks Trump's an exception. Bernie evidently, sees Trump as a prototype for what he would be form the left. Mayor Pete just isn't equipped. Bloomberg - I admire a billionaire who spends $300 million in four months because he thinks Trump is dangerous. Truly, he is living the scenario of "what if I had billions of dollars and saw a great wrong?". Wouldn't be a good President, or even a good candidate. But I can't help admire him living a fantasy scenario many people have had at least once in their life.

And Democrats are going to need that money in the fall to compete against the Trump money juggernaut.


It's a fucking scandal Bernie Sander's is so far up his own ass to run as a 79 year old man on ideas that will never pass Congress.

the fact that you hate bernie just makes him a better choice in my eyes.

- - - Updated - - -

does that hurt people's feelings or something?

uhm what????

[JohnBrown1917]

the fact that you hate bernie just makes him a better choice in my eyes.

- - - Updated - - -



uhm what????

Always a good idea to look at politicians who are despised by the biggest pro-war voices.

[beanman12345]

My personal view, I don't see a path of victory for Warren with how things are right now. Her destroying Bloomberg in the debate will definitely get her some support but her flip flopping on Medicare for All, and I recently read about her starting to accept Super PAC support will hurt her far more than that helps her.

I also see her potentially acting as a spoiler. But that is subjective. Whether she actually does it or not, remains to be seen.

If she honestly sees a path for her to win, I will not fault her for staying, I only fault her if she tries to stay after the point where no one really sees her as having a chance to the point it hurts those most like her.

I am not a Bernie or Bust person, I will gladly support the winner, the only reason why I didn't vote Clinton in the last one was because of Clinton's actions with when she took Debbie into her campaign the same day she had to step down, as too much of a snub to her voters for me to back that. I was willing to hold my nose up until that point. She lost my vote, not the actions or words of Sanders.

At this point the only one who really should drop out is amy, and bloomberg. those are the real spoilers.

After super Tuesday we can re-evaluate the rest.

[Draco-Onis]

At this point the only one who really should drop out is amy, and bloomberg. those are the real spoilers.

After super Tuesday we can re-evaluate the rest.

Aside from Biden they all seem to have more than enough money to last until the end.

[Fugus]

At this point the only one who really should drop out is amy, and bloomberg. those are the real spoilers.

After super Tuesday we can re-evaluate the rest.

Understood. It is just so annoying how fucked up our system is.

I would rather we moved to ranked choice, have all the elections held the same days and marked as a holiday so all can. Don't even need primaries at that point and just let the voters decide.

Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, Libertarian. All can run at that point and the voters get to decide with no spoiler votes and no "Momentum" from the previous states.

[Shadowferal]

Yes, I am in the district that needed the special election.
Also, off topic but, did you ever play a feral druid on the old Alter of Storms server?

Azuremyst...*sigh* Those were better days....

[Fugus]

Aside from Biden they all seem to have more than enough money to last until the end.

Enough money is one thing, enough support for a path to victory is another.

Watching a sentient corpse of a campaign walking to the end like an Olympic athlete but still not winning or getting close helps no one.

[Sorshen]

What's the deal with the NDAs in Nevada? And why are they needed now?

[Fugus]

Azuremyst...*sigh* Those were better days....

Yeah, I played on Altar of Storms from the start of TBC till just before the end of WotLK, just before Icecrown Citadel was opened.

I just wandered because I was like a feral druid teacher back then for the server and one of the guys I taught was named Shadowferal.

[Elegiac]

What's the deal with the NDAs in Nevada? And why are they needed now?

Apologies in advance for CNN, but:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/polit...nts/index.html

(CNN)The Nevada State Democratic Party is asking site leaders for Saturday's caucuses to sign non-disclosure agreements that would prevent them from speaking to the media.

The news comes just one day before the Nevada Democratic caucuses. The caucus process here in Nevada has come under intense scrutiny after a similar process melted down in Iowa. Nevada Democrats, lead by operatives with ties to former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, have worked for weeks to ensure the caucus goes smoothly, worried that a poor showing could imperil the state's first in the west status and further undermine the entire nomination process.

A Nevada State Democratic Party official told CNN that it's standard practice to request staff and volunteers to sign an NDA because they are privy to strategic information and said the party also required NDAs in 2018.

Bolded before the Bernie Bros start freaking out.

[beanman12345]

Understood. It is just so annoying how fucked up our system is.

I would rather we moved to ranked choice, have all the elections held the same days and marked as a holiday so all can. Don't even need primaries at that point and just let the voters decide.

Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, Libertarian. All can run at that point and the voters get to decide with no spoiler votes and no "Momentum" from the previous states.

100% agree ranked choice is the way to go.

[Edge-]

What's the deal with the NDAs in Nevada? And why are they needed now?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/polit...nts/index.html

A Nevada State Democratic Party official told CNN that it's standard practice to request staff and volunteers to sign an NDA because they are privy to strategic information and said the party also required NDAs in 2018.

CNN obtained a copy of one of the four-page agreements which states, in part, "I will take all measures necessary to protect the secrecy of, and avoid disclosure and unauthorized use of, Confidential Information of the NSDP."

The NDA appears to be one that is used for other purposes by the NSDP, since it also references activities other than the caucuses.

"If I am a volunteer and answering phones at the NSDP office or volunteering at an official NSDP event, I am a representative of the NSDP and am not authorized to speak to the press unless given permission by the Executive Director or Communications Director."

Seems like a standard procedure, just getting extra scrutiny in light of the IDP disaster.