So you're just helping out Trump - great. Thanks for clarifying that. And yes, I will shout down anyone who does personal attacks - that only helps Trump, and muddies the waters of people we're trying to win over.
We are not using the same strategy. You think we are because...why again. How anyone can rationally think "we're doing the same thing as 2016" is beyond me. We know what went wrong, in multiple areas, and we're fixing that this time around. Biden is a great choice for a number of categories - the fact that you don't agree doesn't make you right, it just makes you disagree.
Do you understand that you thinking you're right, doesn't make you right. And the facts clearly demonstrate that we are doing things much different this time around. How you ask?
1. we are not underestimating Trump.
2. we are flooding the midwest states with campaigning - which was ignored in 2016
3. we are not running Hillary (despite you claiming they are the same candidate, they are not - and the facts back this up)
4. we are simplifying messaging
5. we are making this a referendum on Trump's presidency
6. we are wooing Obama2012----->Trump2016 voters
7. we are picking a better Vice President candidate
Much more. It's not at all the same.
Except these last several democrats were not moderates. Whether Obama actually was a progressive or not - he spent his second term being firmly moderate/corporatist - he ran on a progressive platform. Bill Clinton was a wave of New Democrat, a progressive compared to the old democratic order. The last democrat before him was Carter, a progressive.
Using data referred by starlord is where I generally have had to bow out, because if we're going to insist on another four years without first world healthcare, I have to watch my blood pressure. "Let me prove A by proving C instead" is where things start to head south.
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
Obama was pretty centrist--he was against gay marriage, and his policy platform wasn't further to the left than Hillary's or Biden's, unless I'm forgetting something, which I may be. Biden came out and voiced his support for gay marriage before Obama had moved on it (yes, may have all been staged, I know, but even at that Obama was tiptoeing into moving left). What Obama did have was a ton of charisma. I do wish people would look at the data from 538 and the nytimes article I keep linking because it shows what motivated those voters, and it's contrary to what we've been telling ourselves.
Sigh. The man has major flaws and it is ok to talk about them. You are becoming his Sarah Huckabee Sanders. It is fucking mind boggling how you don't see this behavior your exhibiting as fear based silliness that plays exactly into what I've been saying is the flaw of Dems.
1. the hell we aren't.
2. And?
3. You keep saying they are different, and offering literally nothing to say how.
4. In what way?
5. Again, and?
6. How? Hillary was part of his cabinet too you know.
7. Who is that?
See this post:
This ^ is because you guys refuse to hear these people. You categorically dismiss them and their frustrations. So they make these statements. Woo them, instead of acting exactly like them and shitting on them for being upset.
Last edited by Bodakane; 2020-03-13 at 08:43 PM.
"When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown
I keep linking it. Conservative Democrats supported Sanders over Clinton, and they supported Biden over Sanders. These are Democratic voters who not only have very conservative views on race and gender, they call themselves moderate or conservative. Democratic voters who are too--let's use this phrase again-- "gender traditionalist" to vote for Clinton have a fair amount in common with actual Republicans, and less with progressives. That accounts for people who voted for Sanders and Trump over Clinton and why they would vote for Biden over both Sanders and Trump.