#DumpStarbucks: Blue Lives and the Right to Refuse Service

[Lynarii]

I'm not entirely convinced that police officers have any control over this. If every cop in the country was a perfect exemplar of professional excellence, that would be one thing, but obviously you're going to have some good cops and some rotten ones. So the perception of police largely depends on the individual and their information diet. If they surround themselves with people who share with them all the bad stories, all the bad shoots, all the corruption, then those people are likely to feel "unsafe" around police officers.

On the other hand, if a person doesn't consume this information in appreciable amounts and maybe just hears a blurb here and there about police malfeasance, they're likely to be reasonably comfortable around officers. Past experience also plays into it.

Just imagine this argument being used against minorities. "If people feel unsafe around minorities, that's the minorities' fault for causing people to feel that way. Just look at all the stories of crimes committed by them!" It's a terrible argument that puts the responsibility for how people feel in the hands of people that have no control over it.

The perception of police is largely the way it is not because people don't understand that there are both good and bad cops, but because they have no faith that if a cop is bad or acts in a bad way, anything will come of it. A good cop will protect you from a bad person, but who protects you from a bad cop?

A huge amount of social interaction is based on the idea that there is a degree of recourse if something goes wrong. Nobody would sign contracts if you couldn't take it to court if the contract was broken. Nobody would rent out a home if there was no repercussions if the tenant burns it down. Police are given a huge amount of authority and power, for people to be okay with that there needs to be a belief that abusing that authority and power will be punished accordingly, and that's the part that is currently in question in a lot of places (not just the US, you just hear about the US a lot more because the whole world hears US news).

[JohnBrown1917]

I agree with you. I'm just not sure what either of those two things has to do with my post.

I'm not the one who is saying people should feel comfortable around cops.

[Wyrt]

How can perpetually offended conservatives boycott Starbucks if they were already boycotting Starbucks for not putting "Merry Christmas" on the cups?

[Deletedaccount1]

I'm not the one who is saying people should feel comfortable around cops.

Why wouldn't you? I was walking up and down the beach on July 4th and there were cops everywhere and nobody seemed to mind. People were bringing them food and laughing with them.

[Kellhound]

Just because cops are supposed to protect citizens from mass shooters(which is still very rare) does not mean they get to whatever the fuck they want.

Police are supposed to enforce laws, not "protect citizens from mass shooters", nor do they get to do "what ever they want".

[Independent voter]

Starbucks spokesperson Reggie Borges told the Arizona Republic that the company was still working to gather information about the reported incident:

“We have a deep respect for the Tempe Police and their service to the community,” he said. “We’ve reached out to the Tempe Police Department and Tempe Officers Association to better understand what happened and apologize. We want everyone in our stores to feel welcomed and the incident described is not indicative of what we want any of our customers to feel in our stores.”

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/07/...r-felt-unsafe/


Here's the Snopes article on the subject.

The public have turned out in force in favor of the police.

[Dacien]

The other thing is somebody's got to do it, right? Like, you're always going to have cops, otherwise you'd show up to Starbucks and get robbed every day. So at least be appreciative of that, that you can go to Starbucks every day and not have to feel unsafe.

[Templar 331]

Translation "I like to suck police dick".

Lol. Not really. I've just been around long enough to know there's always more than what you've been told. For all I know the officers there might have a reputation and might have needed to leave. Them making a big stink about this doesn't help their case.

Or the reverse is true. The customer asking the barista to make them leave could be a former criminal trying to get back at the boys in blue.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Police is a occupation and it sounds as if they, served them, just asked them to leave, because of the history people have with police, and I don't blame them. Good for Starbucks if Bakers don't have to make a cake, Starbucks doesn't have to serve cops.

[Drutt]

Unfortunately, these are the police force's chickens coming home to roost.

Too many high profile cases where excessive police force hasn't been punished (particularly on the black population, see Tamir Rice) has gradually eroded trust. This isn't an issue in other countries because the police forces there are held to account when they do something wrong.

I feel that most police offices are decent human beings, but the "blue wall" effect in defending the minority that do terrible things doesn't make them safer, it fosters distrust.

The US police force needs a long period of introspection and it's going to take a long time to win trust back. It's something they badly need to engage with, even if only to do justice to the majority of well-meaning police officers.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Trump administration gave up on federal oversight of police agencies — just as it was starting to work

Jeff Sessions's Blind Eye The new attorney general makes it clear that when it comes to abuses in local policing, Americans are now on their own.

It seems like there wont be any improvements then.

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Really can't do a county wide push to improve relations when each town in that very county can have rivalries with other towns the same county that's the issue we have here in Jersey petty rivalries between towns with officers sometimes not helping others just because they're from Secaucus and not Jersey city despite both being in the same county (Hudson)

really sounds like alot of people would have to be fired but that of course would cause different problems, no really good fix.

[Themius]

It seems like there wont be any improvements then.

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really sounds like alot of people would have to be fired but that of course would cause different problems, no really good fix.

Honestly I would want only state police to be the police and each state has their own singular department so all offices are under one direction, and one standard training across the entire state. 50 departments is a lot easier to handle than 18k+.

[Endus]

The biggest thing that needs to change with perception of the police is that there needs to be a divorcing between those who investigate and prosecute officers, and the police force and states attorneys for everything else. The states attorneys need a good working relationship with the police, and thus are incentivized to not pursue cases against officers. And internal investigations are just that; internal. It needs to be an external process, by an independent group, and police officers refusing to comply or acting to conceal evidence needs to at a minimum mean summary dismissal, if not criminal charges.

Police need to be held accountable, and right now, there's a perception that they're only accountable to themselves, and just give themselves a "pass" on nearly everything. It needs to be a separate group, and they need to have every reason to prosecute, not every reason not to, which is the status quo.

[Zython]

For context, I would like to remind people that Tempe is in Maricopa county. The same Maricopa county of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. So yeah, not trusting the TPD is probably a pretty rational course of action.

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Why wouldn't you? I was walking up and down the beach on July 4th and there were cops everywhere and nobody seemed to mind. People were bringing them food and laughing with them.

Yeah, there are people who like authoritarianism. Big shocker.

[DKjaigen]

Police is a occupation and it sounds as if they, served them, just asked them to leave, because of the history people have with police, and I don't blame them. Good for Starbucks if Bakers don't have to make a cake, Starbucks doesn't have to serve cops.

But those situations are very different indeed. Starbucks is in the wrong the baker was not.

[Doctor Amadeus]

But those situations are very different indeed. Starbucks is in the wrong the baker was not.

You’re right a police officer is in a profession

[Deus Mortis]

Also found out that the police immediately went to Twitter to complain about it:



How unprofessional can you be?

"wE aRe vEteRaNs tHaT fOuGht fOr oUr cOuNtRy..."

immediately

Might want to look at the dates/time, because it sure was not immediate.

[Realtalk]

When will people learn? These *cough* boycotts NEVER work. Republicans cried over Nike. Record sales. Cried over Gillette commercial. Record Sales. If anything we should buy Starbucks stock for the inevitable bump from incoming record sales. The problem isn’t the cops or people working at Starbucks. It’s the faux outrage, twitter crowd. No one outside of that gives 2 shits about what’s on back of sneakers or if a cop, black guy, woman or hipster got kicked out of a coffee shop.

[Machismo]

immediately

Might want to look at the dates/time, because it sure was not immediate.

It was within a day, that's pretty fast. You'd think they would want a full investigation, first.

[josykay]

Also found out that the police immediately went to Twitter to complain about it:



How unprofessional can you be?

"wE aRe vEteRaNs tHaT fOuGht fOr oUr cOuNtRy..."

Also, the officer in Tempe, shooting a 14 year old kid, was a "veteran". And so far as I understood, he has "resigned", which means, that he can easier be rehired, than after being fired. And.. I have of course nothing read of an indictment so far.


I particulary love the "we want to work collaborativly on this important dialogue", while posting on the same twitter account this picture. What is pretty much a "FUCK Starbucks" message. Yeahhhhh. They want to work collaborativly.. sure.