Eternal Palace tuning

[KaPe]

The main issue with both Disc and Holy Pallies right now is having reliable, raid wide damage reduction that's unmatched by any other spec. And it's not like it comes at the expense of burst raid healing, both can do extremely well on those. But when the raid needs to survive huge burst of damage for several seconds - which is pretty much every single boss after the first three - they completely outclass anything else. No one cares if most specs can heal people up at roughly the same rate if they won't survive them in the first place.

What's especially funny is that Holy Priests are probably at their peak power (post tbc, since Disc didn't really "exist" back then), with high hps and two raid cooldowns, but still inferior to Disc. For yet another expansion. Screw whoever is in charge of balancing healing cooldowns. Maybe barrier and devotion should somehow start showing up on meters, so it's more obvious how big the differences are.

[Marrilaife]

Maybe barrier and devotion should somehow start showing up on meters, so it's more obvious how big the differences are.

Maybe they should be channelled ability interrupted on movement like divine hymn and tranq.

[KaPe]

Maybe they should be channelled ability interrupted on movement like divine hymn and tranq.

They'd just channel it for couple seconds and cancel. Mission accomplished, instant kill 400k damage turned into perfectly survivable 300k. Now dust off that Revival and do the same, so we can laugh at you.

[Miyagie]

Difficulty curve peaked in MoP tbh, I've felt like most instances since been 1 boss raids, ToT probably had the best, we will obviously have to wait till mythic. Overall though 7/8 were easy as fuck, and I've not pulled Azshara yet.

ToT and hard ?
Lei Shen was hard but the rest was a joke. (Animus in 10HC was also Hard)
If you had a Paladin Tank you could solo tank 80% of the raid.

[Mintra]

I was impressed how hard the first boss in mythic was, compared to 2nd and 3rd. Spent several hours on him, min-maxing dps and healing, and making sure everyone is doing mechanics correctly. And then we basically one-shot the next 2 bosses

[Craaazyyy]

ToT and hard ?
Lei Shen was hard but the rest was a joke. (Animus in 10HC was also Hard)
If you had a Paladin Tank you could solo tank 80% of the raid.

twins weren't easy, ra-den wasnt easy

i dont think that ToT was the peak when it comes to difficulty, it was a great raid though

[Raone]

The main issue with both Disc and Holy Pallies right now is having reliable, raid wide damage reduction that's unmatched by any other spec. And it's not like it comes at the expense of burst raid healing, both can do extremely well on those. But when the raid needs to survive huge burst of damage for several seconds - which is pretty much every single boss after the first three - they completely outclass anything else. No one cares if most specs can heal people up at roughly the same rate if they won't survive them in the first place.

What's especially funny is that Holy Priests are probably at their peak power (post tbc, since Disc didn't really "exist" back then), with high hps and two raid cooldowns, but still inferior to Disc. For yet another expansion. Screw whoever is in charge of balancing healing cooldowns. Maybe barrier and devotion should somehow start showing up on meters, so it's more obvious how big the differences are.

Although Barrier is an amazing raid CD its very minor in the reason why Disc too strong, its 2 other reasons. First they offer a lot of damage while still maintaining high hps (while other healers have to stop healing to dps), which is amazing for progression especially when your trying to brute force a fight. And second they are a raid CD whenever they want to be with a rather short CD on it (30~ seconds) with the ability to put out 20 atonements. The only limitations to this raid CD is sometimes Evang won't be up so you will have shorter durations to the "burst" healing and eventually they will oom with all the radiance casts. With two disc priests you can pretty much raid CD whenever you want while they do constant damage.

As much as I love playing disc and its a really fun and rewarding healing spec ... Atonement healing needs to be reduced the more atonements you have out, this would be a MASSIVE nerf but it is the only way to fix the spec. They could even buff the atonement transfer on less targets which would REALLY help them in M+, but the 20 atonement burst healing gameplay is extremely overpowered.

[Miyagie]

twins weren't easy, ra-den wasnt easy

i dont think that ToT was the peak when it comes to difficulty, it was a great raid though

You could solo tank Ra-Den, we did Lei-Shen World 101 with 257 trys in 10 Man and Ra-Den was down after 6 trys.

[Tech614]

twins weren't easy, ra-den wasnt easy

i dont think that ToT was the peak when it comes to difficulty, it was a great raid though

If you could down Lei Shen, Ra Den was dead soon after. He wasn't a pushover for the bleeding edge, but for pretty much everyone else that killed Lei Shen with far more gear he definitely was and should of died in sub 10 attempts. His mechanics where simple and brewmasters solo tanked him easily giving you an extra DPS+a tank with 100% up time on big vengeance always doing massive DPS. This made his raw tuning a check a joke.

[Dracodraco]

If you could down Lei Shen, Ra Den was dead soon after. He wasn't a pushover for the bleeding edge, but for pretty much everyone else that killed Lei Shen with far more gear he definitely was and should of died in sub 10 attempts. His mechanics where simple and brewmasters solo tanked him easily giving you an extra DPS+a tank with 100% up time on big vengeance always doing massive DPS. This made his raw tuning a check a joke.

Just to confirm this, my guild killed Ra-Den 25 heroic in 9 pulls, about ~2hrs after Lei shen died, and that was world 32th (https://i.imgur.com/V06yc5p.png) - this was the night of the first lei shen "nerf" (I think it was valor points allowing some Ilvl upgrades? Not entirely sure anymore, I just know there was a nerf), I remember that quite clearly as we missed a pre-nerf kill the night before at 2% because a lazy ranged baited lightning whip in the wrong direction and cut off the raid from going where we needed to. Not quite "bleeding edge", but that boss was a fucking pushover compared to *anything else* we did in that entire instance apart from maybe Jin-rokh and Qon. As in, we put in more pulls on every other boss but those two.

[Ashina]

Megaera was pretty rough on 10 man teams as well. Same with Durumu. Talking as if ToT was a cakewalk but for Lei Shen...smh

[KaPe]

Ra-den was a broken mess of an encounter that probably wasn't intended to be killed in the way he was - but since it was also an example of their "glorious" limited attempt system, they couldn't exactly buff it post-release without causing serious issues. When such things aren't part of the design, they sometimes change things, like with Il'gynoth single phase zerg.

[Xephyros]

The thing is I said it was the peak of a difficulty curve. I didn't once say it was the most difficult.

I think people are miss understanding what I said, as a 25man guild at the time we found the over all curve to be very nice, The Snake Boss and Durumu where good mid raid challenges, Dark Animus is still my favourite non end boss to this day, Lei shen was amazing, ra-den was well easy but it was more just a reward for completing the raid I think.

Primordeus was an easy boss but a really fun one to do big dick dps, I just have a few fond memory of that instance.

- - - Updated - - -

ToT and hard ?
Lei Shen was hard but the rest was a joke. (Animus in 10HC was also Hard)
If you had a Paladin Tank you could solo tank 80% of the raid.

Difficulty Curve and how hard an instance is are two completely different things.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Well, the hardest boss in BC was Kael'thas, if only because he was bugged and probably overtuned to oblivion. In Wrath it was Yogg+0. In Cata it was H Ragnaros. In Mists it was probably H Lei Shen. In WoD however, Archimonde was definitely harder than Blackhand for both Heroic and Mythic. And in Legion KJ was the hardest in H and M also.

So far BfA's hardest boss by far was U'unat who is pretty much the equal of KJ more or less. Azshara might or might not be harder in the end, but N'zoth would have to be an absolute, 800+ pulls nightmare of a fight to top U'unat alone. So I would say there is indeed a general trend.

U'unat was the Helya of Legion. Azshara is the KJ.

And LK HC was obviously the hardest boss of WotLK, although Yogg+0 gets a honourable 2nd.

[Toby451]

The main issue with both Disc and Holy Pallies right now is

The main problem is how much DPS they can output while maintaining maximum healing (and glimmer). DPS checks are always by far the toughest to meet. Bringing healers that cant dps (without killing their HPS in the process) makes absolutely no sense.


Nothing will change in 8.3 if their DPS is left untouched (or HPS heavily nerfed as a tradeoff).

[tclphz]

The main problem is how much DPS they can output while maintaining maximum healing (and glimmer). DPS checks are always by far the toughest to meet. Bringing healers that cant dps (without killing their HPS in the process) makes absolutely no sense.


Nothing will change in 8.3 if their DPS is left untouched (or HPS heavily nerfed as a tradeoff).

I don't understand why there isn't a better trade off between utility of healers (in this case doing damage) and their ability to heal. Surely there would be fights where the extra dps would be considered a worth while trade off. I feel like they could easily nerf disc and hpal by limiting their glimmer/atonement spread.

[Popastique]

The main problem is how much DPS they can output while maintaining maximum healing (and glimmer). DPS checks are always by far the toughest to meet. Bringing healers that cant dps (without killing their HPS in the process) makes absolutely no sense.


Nothing will change in 8.3 if their DPS is left untouched (or HPS heavily nerfed as a tradeoff).

I agree, healer dps should be either nerfed to the ground or be equal among all healers.

[tclphz]

The main issue with both Disc and Holy Pallies right now is having reliable, raid wide damage reduction that's unmatched by any other spec. And it's not like it comes at the expense of burst raid healing, both can do extremely well on those. But when the raid needs to survive huge burst of damage for several seconds - which is pretty much every single boss after the first three - they completely outclass anything else. No one cares if most specs can heal people up at roughly the same rate if they won't survive them in the first place.

What's especially funny is that Holy Priests are probably at their peak power (post tbc, since Disc didn't really "exist" back then), with high hps and two raid cooldowns, but still inferior to Disc. For yet another expansion. Screw whoever is in charge of balancing healing cooldowns. Maybe barrier and devotion should somehow start showing up on meters, so it's more obvious how big the differences are.

I don't know that holy priests are at peak power today, I thought they were quite strong in uldir before salv and binding heal took nerfs. Agree on your points about the damage reduction. If they didn't want to nerf their damage reduction CDs, I feel like they should buff the healing burst from the other healing classes.

[KaPe]

I don't know that holy priests are at peak power today, I thought they were quite strong in uldir before salv and binding heal took nerfs. Agree on your points about the damage reduction. If they didn't want to nerf their damage reduction CDs, I feel like they should buff the healing burst from the other healing classes.

I didn't mean this specific patch, but BFA in general. Salvation was one of the best things ever given to Holy Priests - and still is, even after nerfs. It's just that, Disc can do basically the same with their own burst, except way more often, with the added bonus of damage reduction and actually being able to DPS while doing so. It's crazy that you can have one of the most powerful raid cooldowns in the game and still be inferior to your other spec. And it's yet another expansion where this is true, Blizzard just doesn't learn.

[Foolicious]

Eternal Palace shows once again that Blizzard doesn't bother to balance flex mode. Some bosses are really annoying again with low amount of people.
Also i hate most of the bossfights. Damage feels more important then ever when half of the bosses don't use abilities before they are dead. They should have hotfixed a lot more bosses like they did with Orgozoa.
I can only imagine how dull the raid feels in two more weeks :/