Pro-Tips for the developers for WoWs future game design

[Aggrophobic]

I assembled some guidelines for the WoW developers for their future work.

Let's start:

1.) Most of the players which play the game are no mythic raiders and will never become such
2.) Most of the players which play the game are no rated PVP players and will never become such
3.) Most of the players give a shit about competetive gameplay
4.) Only a small niche amount of players ever watched eSports.
5.) Balance does not matter in a RPG
6.) Streamers like Asmongold and their followers who want to make WoW hardcore are a small but loud minority
7.) Most of the players do not play high key mythic dungeons
8.) Most of the players are not in organized raiding or PVP guilds
9.) Most of the players give a shit about the question which pro-gamer group won the Arena finals
10.) Gaming is thought to be fun and not to be about chores. Sending the same turtles into the water every day is not fun.
11.) The level of engagement is more interesting than the reward
12.) People who have to play in groups or either they would not get the best rewards and who are introverts play against their nature and become toxic at some point
13.) World of Warcraft destroyed the relationship of thousands of couples
14.) World of Warcraft is addictive, and made people unemployed. Less today, as the game allows anyone to progress somehow without the need to give up real life. Yet, that is still existent at high endgame level.
15.) Games are something you do in your sparetime, after work, and for most of us nothing that should replace real life
16.) The skinner box effect creates even more addicts. The question is why Blizzard utilizes it that massively?
17.) The blood of the game are not 13 hours playing addicts, but the people who play 3 hours every 2 days doing some content. That is who the game should cater to. Entirely.
18.) Noone who plays LFR to see the content wants a challenge in LFR or even wipe there.
19.) People who play solo want to play solo, and not in matchmade groups.
20.) MMORPG does not mean "Massive enforced organized Group role playing game".

Thats all for now. Probably i add more later.

Edit: To make this a discussion, what do you guys think about those tips? What are your tips for the developers?

1: The vast majority of content is not for mythic. You litteraly have a few spells and numbers changed up but thats it.
2: Almost the same as the first answer here only that what works for ranked works for unranked and there is nothing chnaged at all for ranked other than the queue itself.
3: You gonna have to back this up somehow. The matter of balance has been one of the most debated parts of WoW since ever after all.
4: True but the worldfirst race and M+ did well for WoW and pushed a 15 year old game back up to the number one game on twitch at times. That is money for Blizzard.
5: Oh but it does matter a LOT. The rage when classes are unbalanced is silly. Even a few % is enough to render a class "unplayable" in players eyes. Games like Warhammer Online litteraly died becuase they did not care about balance.
6: Doubt it, but as always, there is place for all kinds of players in WoW. That is why it survived where other games did not.
7: No but there is value in having something to strive for. If you just reach the end you'll move on to other games. 10+ is also really easy and most should be able to do that. Anything above that is just pushing leaderboards. If thats not for you, skip it.
8: No, thats why the majoroty of content is for players without guilds and fixed groups.
9: No but having players at the top to look up to and so on brings in new players and keep the old ones trying to get better. Games like LoL and the like show that quite well. Besides, it's a small part of the game.
10: Then don't do it. You obviously aren't looking for the hardcore part of the game anyways so you'll do fine without thoes quests.
11: No, not for everyone.
12: This seem like something you made up. Got any actual studies on the matter?
13: Just what?
14: This is getting silly. If you can't handle games thats your problem, not Blizzards. Thats like saying that making food that tastes good gets people fat. Same there, it's your fault that you are fat, not the ones making the food.
15: WoW doesn't. I've been a mythic (or HC and just raids when that was the only option) since vanilla and I've managed to have a successfull career and live a full life outside of the game. Again, if you can't handle the game, thats your problem not Blizzards. Stop blaming others for your own shortcomings.
16: Again, this is getting silly. Get a grip.
17: It is VERY unlikely that most players play 13h. Even the top players in the world do not spend even close to this much time in the game on average. Heck, most method players probably won't spend 2 hours every day outside of that week or two that they push.
18: Ok, so you mean they should just give you the loot for free? See the boss fights on youtube if you don't like to play them. It's that simple.
19: Then do so. There is a lot of solo content in WoW these days.
20: No it doesn't. Good thing WoW doesn't force you to do anything.

This was a huge waste of my time but there you have it. I doubt any of what you added here would be of any use to Blizzard as it's mostly just you crying about, well, I'm not quite sure what. But then again, you posted it on a third party website so it's not like they'll actually read it.

[Murthag]

No 34717374883881483 char

[Fred Skinner]

Don't do it if you don't enjoy it.

So you want to tell me you stopped playing world quests when they werent fun for you, even if you were not at the reputation level you needed for a special reward?

[Gaidax]

So you want to tell me you stopped playing world quests when they werent fun for you, even if you were not at the reputation level you needed for a special reward?

The thing is - you can get said reputation eventually anyway by doing shit you find at least acceptable. If you don't like ANYTHING at all - then it's your thing, but don't go ahead and project it on others.

[Fred Skinner]

You are doing a great job in this thread proving otherwise, if what you clain in post 18 is true

Is that your question, or just a snarky remark? Actually, i dont get anything from your post which helps in this debate.

Feel free to add something useful.

[MoanaLisa]

I personally agree that most of this is true.

Re #10 a couple of things: Repetitive tasks are not so much of a problem for those who don't play every day. Sending turtles into the water got to be annoying after a while but was easily skipped. Rep grinds stretch out to be a bit longer but if #17 is true--it's true for me, I'm a twice a week player at best--repetition fatigue as such doesn't set in until somewhat later. The upshot is that I would rather have things to do than not and for casual players we have many more choices about what to choose to do and not do as generally we are less interested in finishing everything. It's impossible to stay 100% current and "caught up" so a lot of stuff that bothers every day players recedes somewhat into the background.

I completely agree that PVE is more co-operative and less about competition. Trying to introduce competitive tropes into it is generally awkward.

Last: People are responsible for their own behavior. If relationships and employment opportunities suffer for playing the game, that's something that is specific to each individual and nothing that Blizzard can really do anything about. Their mission is to provide a game/service. What we do with that is on us.

EDIT: If you wish to make a point, make it and stop being unpleasant.

[Fred Skinner]

The thing is - you can get said reputation eventually anyway by doing shit you find at least acceptable. If you don't like ANYTHING at all - then it's your thing, but don't go ahead and project it on others.

No, actually you cannot get repution effectively for said faction from anything else than doing world quests. There are no useful path options.

World of Warcraft infact does allow only a few options for reputation gains, and the most effective actually is doing world quests.

Blizzard lures people into skinner boxes with effectivitiy.

[Nfinitii]

This is y blizzard shouldn’t listen to their player base.

[Fred Skinner]

Last: People are responsible for their own behavior. If relationships and employment opportunities suffer for playing the game, that's something that is specific to each individual and nothing that Blizzard can really do anything about. Their mission is to provide a game/service. What we do with that is on us.

I think game developers have a responsibility to not use questionable methods to make people with psychological issues addicted. And i believe using skinner boxes massively is an abusive way of game development.

[davecrew]

No, actually you cannot get repution effectively for said faction from anything else than doing world quests. There are no useful path options.

World of Warcraft infact does allow only a few options for reputation gains, and the most effective actually is doing world quests.

Blizzard lures people into skinner boxes with effectivitiy.

I skip the turtle water quest everytime because i dont like it you have 3 days to do the shell game this is not that hard

[Zequill]

Resume : Please WoW dev, make the game for those that don't play the game.

[kaminaris]

To address your points:
--snIIIp--

Well said. For someone who wants a short version:
1. You are not forced to do anything in this game, you choose the pace and content you like.
2. Just because mythic does not have wide audience, it is still SOME audience, same for high pvp.
3. Balance matters

And something extra:
You don't know what is "most players" since you dont have statistics. Blizzard does.

[Fred Skinner]

I skip the turtle water quest everytime because i dont like it you have 3 days to do the shell game this is not that hard

Because the shell game is so much fun? Or because you want the end reward?

[ShimmerSwirl]

I assembled some guidelines for the WoW developers for their future work.

Let's start:


Edit: To make this a discussion, what do you guys think about those tips? What are your tips for the developers?

Dude, do you have any clue how much Blizzard has bent over backwards to appease players like you? Do you know that the game used to have basically one form of end game content, that being single-mode Mythic level raids and dungeons?

Look at some of the content Blizzard has designed for your type, the players who want zero challenge and lots of rewards:

-Pet hunting
-Dungeon Finder
-LFR
-Heirloom leveling
-Achievments
-Mount Hunting
-Warfronts
-Scenarios
-Expeditions
-Pet battles
-Toy hunting
-Archaeology
-Timewalking to increase the amount of dungeons for you 10x
-Transmog


Yet you ignore all of that and focus on the small section of the game that isn't tailored specifically to you. If I was Blizzard i'd be going insane trying to appease people like you. They literally give a truckload of content that requires no skill or effort and give you near BiS gear (that you have zero use for btw) for doing this mindless content....yet you STILL complain. You complain that you want something more 'engaging'. If nothing on that list is engaging, and you refuse to do any challenging content, then what exactly do you want? If you're type is the "lifeblood" of WoW then I can see why WoW is fucked.

[Gaidax]

No, actually you cannot get repution effectively for said faction from anything else than doing world quests. There are no useful path options.

World of Warcraft infact does allow only a few options for reputation gains, and the most effective actually is doing world quests.

Blizzard lures people into skinner boxes with effectivitiy.

If you have complete aversion to all outdoor activity it's on you.

You are a person that is disgusted by everything MMO has to offer including the classic quests of kill 5 rats asses for said rep.

If so, why even play MMOs?

You also legit need to stop projecting this on others, because in the end everyone either finds their cup of tea in this game, or moves on, or well stays and suffers (some sort of mental issue I guess).

[Fred Skinner]

1. You are not forced to do anything in this game, you choose the pace and content you like.

But only the pace. Most rewards are limited to one source. As i wrote, Blizzard forces their players into skinner boxes by making them most effective.

2. Just because mythic does not have wide audience, it is still SOME audience, same for high pvp.

Yeah, but every 2nd game director comment being about mythic raids isnt really justified, or is it? He should adress the large crowd at least sometimes.

3. Balance matters

Not remotely as much as class diversity, narrative or gameplay, in special in a role playing game, where you want to be the gnome hero that saves the world.

[Bakis]

From what I read almost the entire list is garbage to what I want to play but thats fine, we want different things.
One thing though balance does not matter? Of cos it does for anyone not playing 100% of the game solo.
If a player team up for quests or a 5man or whatever I bet 9/10 would like not to see that their gameplay contribute 10% of what the others do. Even the least competative person would feel useless.

Then again, then he/she might end up like a play solo only in which case I recommend Skyrim or something.

[Just1c3]

If all you do is low end content and WQ why do you need the strongest gear? I don't need a race car to drive a mile to work.

A couple of reasons. First of all, it makes soloing easier and faster, which highly desirable in a game where "make things take as long as possible" seems to be the driving design goal. Shaving 30 seconds off that world quest may not seem like a big deal, sure, but if you're doing loads of world quests, 30 seconds adds up over time.

Second of all, this is a trivial point if you don't care about it or are so incredibly skilled that you've never noticed or cared, but having good gear makes old content easier to tackle. Specifically, old content that's still actually semi-difficult. Yes, any 120 can steamroll through Molten Core no matter what they're wearing, but some old raids still are actually kinda hard at points. Hellfire Citadel springs to mind. Again, if you don't care about farming mog, this won't be an issue for you, but speaking for myself, collecting mog is a big driving force behind why I still play this game, so soloing old raids is actually kind of a big deal for me personally.

[StayTuned]

All of the points you addressed, blizzard tried to solve with BfA.

And BfA is an utter shitfest of a horrific game. It's not even a "well, at least they tried" attempt. It's just bad.

Casual scrubs who want to play this game 1 hour per week can just play something else instead. Stop infesting this game with your awful ideas.



Here's another pro tip for you:

* I just wanna log on once per week, find items in my inbox that have same quality as top tier raiding content, in addition to a video that is on autoplay and tells me the lore of the expansion.

[Fred Skinner]

OP, why don't you just play FFXIV?

This thread and this forum is about World of Warcraft.