9.0 General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

Kyrians gain their wings by ascending, and considering he has wings he must have ascended.

There is however a part where we see an Apirant about to ascend, likely not having had his memories removed yet fall nad be turned into a Forsworn with wings.
Not to mention, if removing their memories is required to get their wings then why would any of them have wings at all with thsi line of thought? Their stated reason for being is not wanting to remove their memories.
I suppose it is possible that their memories are removed right before the ritual where they become ascended and that is where they get wings, but that just seems a pretty rounadabout way to explain why only Ascended Kyrians are supposed to have wings and yet Forsworn are failed Kyrians who additionally have wings.

Still though, my main problem is not really getting where Ersula is seeing Ascended Uther joining the Forsworn. From where i am standing it still seems more likely that his uncorrupted model is meant to show up later in the Kyrian Covenant questline. Thye do afterall specifically mention it being possible to reverse the process of becoming a Forsworn.

[huth]

Kyrians gain their wings by ascending, and considering he has wings he must have ascended.

He may have ascended as a Forsworn, though.

[Arbs]

Where did you find that? I checked the questline and the first mention i saw of Uther was him tempting another disciple which made said disciple turn into a Forsworn.

Honestly, you are really reaching if this is your next attempt at rationalizing Sylvanas' evil deeds.

You're Correct, we only see Uther as a Forsworn in the current iterations of the Bastion questline. I just finished it tonight, Uther shows up 3 times but only as a Forsworn. First time tempting a disciple that eventually turns. 2nd in a memory that is cut off quickly & 3rd time, he is disabling a Ward for the Temple of Courage, where Kyrian are trained to fight. It is also the location of where the Necrotic Wake dungeon is.

There wasn't any available cutscene that showed Uther changing to Forsworn. I would expect the questline is iterated & changed or adjusted before beta. but it was a relaxing questline.

[Thenatural]

I know as a once Night Elf fan, I won't be relieved until I see some kind of indication that they're adding back the clear motivations for why BfA happened for new players.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but this take is super creepy and weird.

Is it really important to you that new players are bombarded with this specific plot event 15 minutes after buying the game? I genuinely don't understand this. Are you truly unable to put yourselves in the shoes of a brand new player?

[Xilurm]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but this take is super creepy and weird.

Is it really important to you that new players are bombarded with this specific plot event 15 minutes after buying the game? I genuinely don't understand this. Are you truly unable to put yourselves in the shoes of a brand new player?

...

How in the world is that creepy?

[theossy]

I hope this is not too off-topic (if it is, apologies and I'll take it elsewhere)

Are there any of you alpha testers who has any sense of when the expansion might be released?

I know we can't know for sure, but has there been an inkling of when based on the state of the alpha / some gossip?

cheers

[Thenatural]

...

How in the world is that creepy?

How is it not creepy to expect an outlet of your frustration with a plot point to be taken out on someone deciding to try WoW for the first time?

No one is calling for any other plot point over the 15 years of this game to be immediately told to a new player except this one that they don't like. It's creepy.

[Yarathir]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but this take is super creepy and weird.

Is it really important to you that new players are bombarded with this specific plot event 15 minutes after buying the game? I genuinely don't understand this. Are you truly unable to put yourselves in the shoes of a brand new player?

If you're shoving people into the story of a war, trying to brush the genocide that motivated it under the rug is the creepy and weird thing.

[Thenatural]

If you're shoving people into the story of a war, trying to brush the genocide that motivated it under the rug is the creepy and weird thing.

So this is really a case of, "I don't let it, and I want them to rub the faces of new players in what I deem bad."

Got it. That's creepy, just letting you know, it's weirdly vindictive and doesn't do anything to improve the experience for a new player.

[Yarathir]

How is it not creepy to expect an outlet of your frustration with a plot point to be taken out on someone deciding to try WoW for the first time?

No one is calling for any other plot point over the 15 years of this game to be immediately told to a new player except this one that they don't like. It's creepy.

If you find that creepy, maybe that's something you should discuss with Blizzard, who used it as a plot point.

Every new player has to go through BfA the first time. They've decided to remove any mentions of why this war started and replaced it with a generic "tensions arose," remark. They can regret BfA and their horribly failed attempt to write a war story through shock values and Marvel cinematic universe-tier quips and popcorn cutscenes all they want, but they can't put it back into its box.

- - - Updated - - -

So this is really a case of, "I don't let it, and I want them to rub the faces of new players in what I deem bad."

Got it. That's creepy, just letting you know, it's weirdly vindictive and doesn't do anything to improve the experience for a new player.

No, lmao?

They used the near extinction of a group as a shock value point to push their war story and now they're trying to remove any mention of it because dealing with such themes turned out to be harder than they expected. Yet the ramifications of this are still ingame with the explanation for them removed.

If anything, you're being creepy for trying to act as if it's something to just be painted over when it suits you.

[Thenatural]

If you find that creepy, maybe that's something you should discuss with Blizzard, who used it as a plot point.

Every new player has to go through BfA the first time. They've decided to remove any mentions of why this war started and replaced it with a generic "tensions arose," remark. They can regret BfA and their horribly failed attempt to write a war story through shock values and Marvel cinematic universe-tier quips and popcorn cutscenes all they want, but they can't put it back into its box.

I was unaware that the faction war started in BFA. Are you upset that classic didn't begin with a massive exposition dump, too?

I don't think the plot point is creepy, I think saying to yourself, "I didn't like this thing, so now I want everyone who picks up the game for the first time to see it, too." is creepy.

It's funny how people don't really care about new players being given exposition dumps on past events that aren't FotM blizzbad talking points.

Edit: It's also funny that 99% of the people who screech "BAD WRITING!!!" have anime pfps and probably have jojo posters on their wall.

[therumblings]

So this is really a case of, "I don't let it, and I want them to rub the faces of new players in what I deem bad."

Got it. That's creepy, just letting you know, it's weirdly vindictive and doesn't do anything to improve the experience for a new player.

Blame Blizzard for making genocide be the main reason for BFA. Oh, and a hideously bad story.

[Yarathir]

I was unaware that the faction war started in BFA. Are you upset that classic didn't begin with a massive exposition dump, too?

I don't think the plot point is creepy, I think saying to yourself, "I didn't like this thing, so now I want everyone who picks up the game for the first time to see it, too." is creepy.

It's funny how people don't really care about new players being given exposition dumps on past events that aren't FotM blizzbad talking points.

Battle for Azeroth started out as a faction war expansion kicked off by the events at Teldrassil and Lordaeron. Removing that from its proper context makes BfA's story entirely different and brushes all that stuff under the rug.

New players have to level through BfA and now they'll just be told "yeah tension arose or something, it happens." It's like players leveling through Mists of Pandaria and never having any context for why faction war happened there.

If you unironically think wanting a story to present its reason for existence to people who play through it is creepy, then I don't know what to say.

[therumblings]

I don't think the plot point is creepy, I think saying to yourself, "I didn't like this thing, so now I want everyone who picks up the game for the first time to see it, too." is creepy.

I guess it's creepy for everyone in MoP to know Theramore exploded then.

0/10, even Ersula trolls better man.

[plz delete account]

i guess it's creepy for everyone in mop to know theramore exploded then.

0/10, even ersula trolls better man.

stop spoiling mop for me

[Thenatural]

New players have to level through BfA and now they'll just be told "yeah tension arose or something, it happens."

Sooo.... literally 90% of the faction war over the course of this game's lifespan? Oh no! How will they manage! Better make sure timmy the new forsaken player has to stop having fun doing quests and thinking about his character to have an exposition dump because people who can't quit the game are mad about "bad writing"!

[Yarathir]

Sooo.... literally 90% of the faction war over the course of this game's lifespan? Oh no! How will they manage! Better make sure timmy the new forsaken player has to stop having fun doing to quests and thinking about his character to have an exposition dump because people who can't quit the game are mad about "bad writing"!

Yeah, I think this argument has run its course. You can't even pretend to tackle it.

[therumblings]

Sooo.... literally 90% of the faction war over the course of this game's lifespan? Oh no! How will they manage! Better make sure timmy the new forsaken player has to stop having fun doing quests and thinking about his character to have an exposition dump because people who can't quit the game are mad about "bad writing"!

The Fourth War was not caused due to buildup from WoW's history. The War of Thorns and Teldrassil's destruction are vital to the story of BFA. Regardless of your fanatical defense of blizzard's garbage writing, it is a necessary plot point for the entirety of BFA, nor is it exposition. I guess you think it's cool to play Cataclysm without knowing what the Cataclysm is? Cool.

[Thenatural]

Yeah, I think this argument has run its course. You can't even pretend to tackle it.

You're imagining a version of WoW that never existed and this is much less about the new player experience than it is about you thinking that if a new player is told about what you deem is unsatisfactory it will somehow give you justification for the frustration you feel about bad writing.


New players have never been given a massive exposition dump at all, they have never been given justification for their actions, from the moment they leave the starting zones the leveling experience is thrown at them at random, once they hit 60 they are sent off to a number of expansions with absolutely zero context other than, "Fly here and talk to this dude."

This whole concern for the narrative's integrity from a new player's perspective is the most thinly veiled bunch of crap I have ever read in my life.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess you think it's cool to play Cataclysm without knowing what the Cataclysm is? Cool.

This is how it's been for 8 years, and until now, people have never lost their minds over it.

[Yarathir]

So yeah, anyway. Basically Blizzard should add back clear motivators for the war rather than a vague "Yeah, tensions just arose and shit."