9.0 General Discussion

[Directionalk9]

Imagine for a second how insane this would be if it was true.

Lord of the rings has the second book end with Frodo unceremoniously finding a laca pocket that links ot Mount Doom and throwing the ring in, peace is restored and the final book is about Aragorn making peace with the Easterlings.
Star wars Empire strikes back ends with Luke getting a lucky shot in on Vader defeating him, the galaxy deposes the Emperor and movie 6 is about Han Solo finding a buried space treasure.

You would have thought the authors were insane, because stories are self-contained entities. There is a Beginning, middle and end. And in the beginning you start a conflict, and at the end you end that conflict. If you want a different story with the same characters you wait for a second story.

Your examples only work if Empire ends with the cast back at Hoth fighting a wompa.

[Sondrelk]

So, 8.2... don’t skip content.

Where in 8.2 was the piece of dialogue that showed that defeating N'zoth is equivalent to ending faction war?

Just a single line of dialogue would do. Just have someone grandly reveal Sylvanas started teh faction war to allow N'zoth to be released and it would make sense.

[derpkitteh]

The problem with a dragon class is that balance still exist. Or should. Invoking the power of the aspects, or even your own draconic powers, sounds awesome, but you won't be any stronger than a rogue. A guy with a kitchen knife. It would work in a single player game. A bonus you unlock if you clear the campaign. A new game plus if you will.

Congratulations. You did it. Now experience the satisfaction of facerolling bosses with the power of dragons.

eh. class equality in the game is literally just gameplay.

mage, warlock, dk, and dh(and to a lesser extent shaman, druid, and paladin) btfo every single other class. saurfang just showed what happens to warriors in a magic fight, and archers are only strong when it's dark rangers, another magic user.

[Makorus]

Imagine for a second how insane this would be if it was true.

Lord of the rings has the second book end with Frodo unceremoniously finding a laca pocket that links ot Mount Doom and throwing the ring in, peace is restored and the final book is about Aragorn making peace with the Easterlings.
Star wars Empire strikes back ends with Luke getting a lucky shot in on Vader defeating him, the galaxy deposes the Emperor and movie 6 is about Han Solo finding a buried space treasure.

You would have thought the authors were insane, because stories are self-contained entities. There is a Beginning, middle and end. And in the beginning you start a conflict, and at the end you end that conflict. If you want a different story with the same characters you wait for a second story.

Remember when Return of the Jedi ended with Luke and company fighting Jabba again?

[Shampro]

This is literally futile. The people who insist BfA is all about faction war just keep repeating how everything was always about faction war. They want BfA to be all about the faction war, even now when they can only deny it by ignoring the facts right in their face they still insist BfA should have been all about faction war.

But for once, it's not bad writing to blame, it's bad reading. Or maybe just selective reading, only paying attention to what confirmed their bias about what BfA was supposed to be.

It's the same one dude who has a weird fetish for his Faction War / Sylvanas Raid. It's fucking hilarious.

[Directionalk9]

Where in 8.2 was the piece of dialogue that showed that defeating N'zoth is equivalent to ending faction war?

Just a single line of dialogue would do. Just have someone grandly reveal Sylvanas started teh faction war to allow N'zoth to be released and it would make sense.

You’re beyond explanation at this point, clearly you didn’t understand the story told.

Your conflating a marketing theme with narrative symmetry.

Basically you mad that you didn’t get what you want.

[Nagawithlegs]

You could make a pretty good case that BFA's marketing was anti-consumer, but nobody's going to care. Most everyone has the belief that they cannot market Old Gods to a large audience.

[Wilfire]

This thread needs more Wrath of the Bolvar

[Raetary]

Had the finalk raid been against Mueh'zala then it oculd have worked, because Sylvanas was all about that death.
But i still don't see the logical endpoint that means defeating N'zoth is a satisfying conclusion to the story of Faction war.

N'zoth isn't meant to conclude the faction war.
The faction war was concluded in 8.2.5.

N'zoth was in a story that was running in the background alongside the faction war.
Once the war was over, N'zoth got shoved to the forefront.

[Makorus]

You could make a pretty good case that BFA's marketing was anti-consumer, but nobody's going to care. Most everyone has the belief that they cannot market Old Gods to a large audience.

It's not like they tell you everything a book or a movie about in the marketing. Don't really see how BFAs marketing was anti-consumer when they NEVER said that it would be about Faction Conflict at all.

[Sondrelk]

You’re beyond explanation at this point, clearly you didn’t understand the story told.

Your conflating a marketing theme with narrative symmetry.

Basically you mad that you didn’t get what you want.

No, i am mad the story doesnt make sense.

The story started with faction war, and until someone shows me the alternate opening questline where N'zoth was stated as the reason we go to different islands i will stand by that the story started with faction war and it shouldnt just throw the theme of the expansion away because it got bored by it.

[ercarp]

Had the finalk raid been against Mueh'zala then it oculd have worked, because Sylvanas was all about that death.
But i still don't see the logical endpoint that means defeating N'zoth is a satisfying conclusion to the story of Faction war.

I agree with some of what you've been saying in your posts, but for the most part, I have to side with everyone else. A story's narrative can shift at any time, there's no universal rule against it.

They could be saving the Sylvanas plot for 8.3.5 (as others have said), or they could be setting up a story arc that spans multiple expansions. Not everything has to happen right now, in this expansion.

Also, while we're on the topic of criticizing poor narratives, nothing would've been more confusing for the average consumer than making Mueh'zala (a Death entity) the final boss of an expansion that's been centered around Old Gods and N'Zoth.

[Syegfryed]

The problem with a dragon class is that balance still exist. Or should. Invoking the power of the aspects, or even your own draconic powers, sounds awesome, but you won't be any stronger than a rogue. A guy with a kitchen knife. It would work in a single player game. A bonus you unlock if you clear the campaign. A new game plus if you will.

so, no problems at all

[Sondrelk]

N'zoth isn't meant to conclude the faction war.
The faction war was concluded in 8.2.5.

N'zoth was in a story that was running in the background alongside the faction war.
Once the war was over, N'zoth got shoved to the forefront.

Just ofr a second try to see this from my perspective here.
Has any other expansion done anything even remotely similar ot this?
Can you imagine if this was the norm for an expansion.

Can you imagine if WotLK had the scourge be defeated during the Trial of teh Grand crusader patch and the final raid was against Deathwing.
Or again, if 7.2 ended with sealing up the portal ot Argus and 7.3 was defeating Azshara in Nazjatar?

Just for a moment try to consider why these examples do not work from a narrative perspective.

[Atticon]

Welp, the dream of 2H Frost DK returning was nice while it lasted...more toothpicks it is.
Seriously, if this is how it is, at least let us choose to sheath onehanders on back...

[Renley]

No, i am mad the story doesnt make sense.

The story started with faction war, and until someone shows me the alternate opening questline where N'zoth was stated as the reason we go to different islands i will stand by that the story started with faction war and it shouldnt just throw the theme of the expansion away because it got bored by it.

The story of BFA started in Legion, with Emerald Nightmare, Ilgynoth and Xalatath. N'zoth has been the villain, the big bad guy, the main focus of BFA from before BFA was even out. Legion made sure of explaining that to us. BFA also continued to explain to us that N'zoth is the focus. Old Gods are the focus. The faction war was a vessel to get us to this point.

[derpkitteh]

so, no problems at all

it kinda is a problem, but it's problem in all games.

people are whiny bitches that'd whine if their class was, rightfully, automatically weaker than another class due to the lore.

i hope that once full dive mmos are a thing, that won't still be the case. would be shit if you can finally cast magic, and it just BB gun plinks away at people to equal you out with the sperg trying to be a warrior.

[Sondrelk]

I agree with some of what you've been saying in your posts, but for the most part, I have to side with everyone else. A story's narrative can shift at any time, there's no universal rule against it.

They could be saving the Sylvanas plot for 8.3.5 (as others have said), or they could be setting up a story arc that spans multiple expansions. Not everything has to happen right now, in this expansion.

Also, while we're on the topic of criticizing poor narratives, nothing would've been more confusing for the average consumer than making Mueh'zala (a Death entity) the final boss of an expansion that's been centered around Old Gods and N'Zoth.

There was no believable shift though. The faction war story just ended abruptly in 8.2.5 and now the story is Old gods instead.


Had teh expansion been marketed as an Old God story and the faction war was a sideshow then ending it in 8.2.5 would make sense, because it wasnt the focus of the story.

[Renley]

Just ofr a second try to see this from my perspective here.
Has any other expansion done anything even remotely similar ot this?
Can you imagine if this was the norm for an expansion.

Can you imagine if WotLK had the scourge be defeated during the Trial of teh Grand crusader patch and the final raid was against Deathwing.
Or again, if 7.2 ended with sealing up the portal ot Argus and 7.3 was defeating Azshara in Nazjatar?

Just for a moment try to consider why these examples do not work from a narrative perspective.

Going into Legion, Gul'dan was the "focus bad guy" by your logic with the faction war. We killed him early.

But also, again, faction war wasn't the main focus of the expansion, so it really doesn't matter.

[Syegfryed]

it kinda is a problem, but it's problem in all games.

people are whiny bitches that'd whine if their class was, rightfully, automatically weaker than another class due to the lore.

i hope that once full dive mmos are a thing, that won't still be the case. would be shit if you can finally cast magic, and it just BB gun plinks away at people to equal you out with the sperg trying to be a warrior.

i can't see a problem that magic classes have the same power lv as non magic classes in high fantasy.