9.0 General Discussion

[Nagawithlegs]

I am not convinced anyone is embracing cancel culture, they simply like to pretend they are willing to stick to their guns and sacrifice their enjoyment and comfort for the sake of their morals.

Yeah, inherent human nature is lying to save face/accumulate benefits and not really caring too much about other people unless it works out for you you and your immediate loved ones. It's pretty disgusting and it's a problem that so many people are growing up realizing this.

So how about that Shadowlands?

[Sarethion]

Still, like I said, I can't excuse him completely. Legion was S-tier, but BfA was an absolute catastrophe. I don't think he's the issue as much as people like to think he is though, that's for sure.

I think that it's a team effort and Ion isn't doing what he wants, so he doesn't deserve all the blame. That said, it's not what I'm arguing for - I just said that if anything goes wrong, the devs and Ion in particular will get a lot of angry comments directed at them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah, inherent human nature is lying to save face/accumulate benefits and not really caring too much about other people unless it works out for you you and your immediate loved ones. It's pretty disgusting and it's a problem that so many people are growing up realizing this.

So how about that Shadowlands?

Not as bad as people are screaming, thats about Shadowlands.

Same, I think his hands are bound somewhat by the higher-ups.

I dunno about that.... I think he may really believe the thing about the whole covanent thing but not in any malicious way. I don't think this is malice at all.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, inherent human nature is lying to save face/accumulate benefits and not really caring too much about other people unless it works out for you you and your immediate loved ones. It's pretty disgusting and it's a problem that so many people are growing up realizing this.

So how about that Shadowlands?

Anyways, yes, Shadowlands. Nothing there to remind us of our inevitable entropy as our morals and impact on the world slowly withers away iin the cold ceaseless vacuum of space...

Hmm...



Anyways, I guess we are just back to waiting. I was extremely ready to have some new stuff this Wednesday, but I guess that won't happen. I suppose at least it means less chance I will become tired of the Pre-patch, but still, kind of a bummer.

All I really have ot be scared of now is either a massive complication for Blizzard that forces them to delay again, or worse still, my lasagna roller attachment for my stand mixer not arriving in time. Not sure which one is worse, I do afterall really want some delicious homemade lasagna in time for the release.

[Toybox]

I think that it's a team effort and Ion isn't doing what he wants, so he doesn't deserve all the blame. That said, it's not what I'm arguing for - I just said that if anything goes wrong, the devs and Ion in particular will get a lot of angry comments directed at them.

Same, I think his hands are bound somewhat by the higher-ups.

[Nyel]

Not as bad as people are screaming, thats about Shadowlands.

And not as good as it had to be after the fiasco that BfA was. It’s just there, middle of the road. Most likely it won’t battle WoD or BfA for the title of the worst expansion, but it doesn’t yearn for the top or either (and yes, we can already come to that conclusion). It’s just there, it exists to fill a void, not to bring WoWs to new or former highs.

[Sarethion]

I think the bigger problems with Shadowlands are not the bugs, boring as hell The Maw, inflexible Covenants and questionable class design will be major issues. And I see that as a major problem as BfA had exactly the same issues just in another color - no endgame zone, horrible class design and a very inflexible borrowed power system. Bugs are just the icing on the cake of all the other problems.

Of course - bugs are relatively "easy" to fix, because they don't require design choices or developing additional stuff. They will get fixed fast. But at the same time bugs are an easy target for complaints. People will argue about Covenants or class design, but if something is broken then everyone will dislike it. And if the game is buggy, it will leave a bad first impression, which will only help funnel people into complaining about other things.

[Sondrelk]

And not as good as it had to be after the fiasco that BfA was. It’s just there, middle of the road. Most likely it won’t battle WoD or BfA for the title of the worst expansion, but it doesn’t yearn for the top or either (and yes, we can already come to that conclusion). It’s just there, it exists to fill a void, not to bring WoWs to new or former highs.

I would disagree. the systems of Shadowlands might be controversial, but they are undoubtedly an attempt by Blizzard to re-add some of that RPG magic that the game lost in the decade and a half of gradual streamlining. We will likely never get back that feeling of wonder and awe that the game could give at the very beginning, mostly because of the reality of the online medium, but it can at least be a better RPG and make the game less of a checklist of content to be consumed in turn.

[Nyel]

I would disagree. the systems of Shadowlands might be controversial, but they are undoubtedly an attempt by Blizzard to re-add some of that RPG magic that the game lost in the decade and a half of gradual streamlining. We will likely never get back that feeling of wonder and awe that the game could give at the very beginning, mostly because of the reality of the online medium, but it can at least be a better RPG and make the game less of a checklist of content to be consumed in turn.

I mean in the PC Gamer issue Ion said that Shadowlands is their most ambitious expansion yet - I just don’t see it. Where exactly are they ambitious? Just talking about Torghast? I have no idea, because when I think about this expansion nothing for me deserves to be called most ambitious.

I absolutely agree, it will be better than BfA, being worse is hardly achievable, but I’m not sure if that‘s the thing they should be aiming for, to be better than BfA.

[GreenJesus]

Not sure if there's any correlation or if it's been mentioned but I'm finally leveling my paladin and the Ashbringer has some Maw-like runes as well. Wonder if it'll come into play or if I'm just reading too far into things

Ashbringer was forged by a dwarf blacksmith so I don't see why there would be connection to the maw.

[Jastall]

If they rework The Crossroads, is the Barrens a new zone?

With this stellar sort of logic, Timeless Isle wasn't a new zone because most of its art assets came from mainland Pandaria.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I think that it's a team effort and Ion isn't doing what he wants, so he doesn't deserve all the blame. That said, it's not what I'm arguing for - I just said that if anything goes wrong, the devs and Ion in particular will get a lot of angry comments directed at them.

I'd love when it's all over and done with to hear Ion's side of the story. On who was setting the agenda with the game.

I always come down saying it's Ion's game he sets the agenda and he is better suited for a Destiny-style game than an Everquest-style. (Looter VS Tab Target not Sci Fi VS Fantasy) But maybe those calls are coming from higher up the Activision chain, trying to fill the hole Destiny left.

[Sondrelk]

I mean in the PC Gamer issue Ion said that Shadowlands is their most ambitious expansion yet - I just don’t see it. Where exactly are they ambitious? Just talking about Torghast? I have no idea, because when I think about this expansion nothing for me deserves to be called most ambitious.

Covenants are likely what they mean by most ambitious. This is Blizzard blatantly making a straight up attempt at removing the mentality of complete optimization from most of the playerbase. If they fail then they will have wasted the time put into the uniqueness, but if they succeed then they can massively diversify the game in future expansions.

[therumblings]

Ambitious doesn't mean most content. Covenants are extremely ambitious, to a negative degree according to some folk. I still am conflicted on covenants as a whole, I wish they were just cosmetic as I hate rental powers, but I understand why rental powers exist.

[Raetary]

New Danuser Interview.
http://lorekeeper.net/en/maldraxxus-...tpZkCPG6NE1_JA

[Nagawithlegs]

Would you look at that, Danuser actually addressed Bridenbrad:

So if Naarus are fighting in the mortal realm for example, a Naaru is struck down; its essence would go back to the realm of Light and would reconstitute there. Now there are exceptions to that rule… If a significantly powerful force intervenes in such a way, it can throw that process off, it can either delay it or subvert it in some way. But it takes a significant influence for that to happen; it’s not something that casually happens.

For example people have talked about Bridenbrad, the hero who died in Northrend. We saw the Light intervene to save him and pull him away. That’s the case of one of the forces having a direct tie to a character and going out of its way to kind of yank it out of the normal cycle a little bit and do something different with it.

Those cases are the exception rather than the rule. So if you destroyed a being of the Light, it would go back to the realm of Light and to really destroy it, you would have to go to the realm of Light and destroy it there.

So that one guy who cared can shut up about it on the lore forums.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

New Danuser Interview.
http://lorekeeper.net/en/maldraxxus-...tpZkCPG6NE1_JA

I see he shuts down the "Necromancer will be added in a patch" nonsense with a single sentence answer.

[Sarethion]

What captured my attention was that Danuser said that there can be another realm of punishment and torment. Isn't that exactly what the Maw is?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

What captured my attention was that Danuser said that there can be another realm of punishment and torment. Isn't that exactly what the Maw is?

Depends on what he considers "Punishment and Torment" I guess. You could argue that Revendreth fits that bill as well, just without the permanence of the Maw.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What captured my attention was that Danuser said that there can be another realm of punishment and torment. Isn't that exactly what the Maw is?

Perhaps the Maw isn't the original realm of torment or the Maw is much bigger then appearance, who knows. Shadowlands is mostly a mystery and infinite, they can "do what they want."