The thing i fear the most is the loss of community aspect...

[Will]

One thing people keep forgetting about layering is that players on a different layer are still on your server

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Do you truly believe the internet...the world...the people...were the same 15 years ago?

Im with Boomzy, that would be insane

Yeah I don't think people have changed much. People are people.

[Aggrophobic]

Truly spoken by someone who has never played or watched any footage from a PS.

I don't have to "remember" anything.

Not sure what you mean with "PS" but I played enough vanilla and classic beta to be quite confident about that one.

[micwini]

I find it weird they haven't said anything about addons yet. I mean nowadays people are so clever that they could just replicate unwanted features, like lfg, into an addon.

[Aggrophobic]

Very much this.

I have no idea where people get this rose-tinted shit from, it simply wasn't the case most times. Heck, I remember getting as a t1 geared tank just before BWL launch about 10+ whispers an hour to tank X dungeon and such. Most of the time I replied with a "Sorry, am busy atm", but then said players would take that as a call to hassle me every hour thereafter expecting me to drop everything to help *them*, and the incessant whining of "Oh, pleeeeeease, I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED this dungeon and item!" (even more so if you rolled need on an item, and they decided *they* needed it too, and wouldn't shut up the whole fucking instance about it...)
God forbid also, I would say "No thanks, I am not a fan of that dungeon" (Mara and DrM) and then get hassled with either whines, ot on some occasions outright insults. I even remember having someones parent or older sibling start harassing me because I didn't want to take their child round RFC (at 60, in t1).
Combine that with the scammer reports, constant ninja whines, people screeching like banshees when something didn't go there way (friend had a guy screech at him for *ninjaing* Herbs from him, even though he was merely in the same zone, and my friend got their first without pulling mobs or such, the other guy just decided that he saw it on his minimap, thus it was *his*).
Sure, this is all anecdotal, but I could go on, and on about how shitty a lot of the players were, and also many Officers in higher guilds doing higher tier content. The whole design of Classic encouraged ego, drama, and bullshit.
It won't be any different now.

Yeah it was not much different from how it is today. At first, maybe it was for like the first few weeks but once some people learend the ropes and others did not the the same issues we have to day started showing. Some just think that a player that has less knowledge about the game is just a waste of time. In a way they are right of course - Having to teach every player you invite how the game works, every time gets tedious so after a while you start looking for people that have cleared the content befor and you'll have the same sense of, I guess neediness or elitism. In many ways, it'll probably be worse in classic actually, compared to retail.

Classic will be a mix of players that used to know the game but just don't anymore, people that do know every corner of it and the complete noobs and the clash here will be "epic". If I ever go near this I'll never ever pug becuase it'll be extremely unpleasant.

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@Aggrophobic @Howlrunner

I know for a fact the community was different back then.
Why? I dont know. (dont know if it was different era or something else...)

Because when i was a teenager i used to gank people in low level zones...and EVERY single time...max levels would come to the rescue to help the ones in need.

Does that happen now? I dont think so...

No, you just logged on your main becuase you had no other place to level at. Gankers litteraly ruined the gameplay for you so you were forced to log your main or just play something else. If that happens today you can just move somewhere else and that is a huge plus for retail of course.

No one gave a crap about you and the people who ganked you.

[Tiwack]

You clearly don’t know what goalpost moving is.

I wouldn't expect you to know either nor make your point already. Focusing on scale and ignoring every other factor makes things simple for yourself. Must be nice.

[justandulas]

they wont have name change or server transfers, so blacklists will 100% exist

[Big Thanks]

they wont have name change or server transfers, so blacklists will 100% exist

its not confirmed
In an interview they said "server transfers existed at the end of vanilla so we will see..."
And i bet they will allow it for the money it brings.

[Halyon]

Hey, this topic again.

That is a really cool profile pic. Just wanted to say that.

OT: Time will tell, won't it. I severely disbelieve that vanilla will be anything like it was way back when, other than the look and numbers. Community will be very different, of even as big. But we will see.

[Aggrophobic]

I find it weird they haven't said anything about addons yet. I mean nowadays people are so clever that they could just replicate unwanted features, like lfg, into an addon.

They could back then as well but not everyone used them due to lack of knowledge mostly I guess. But there were tools for groups and Blizzard even added in their own version of the group finder at the end there with the meeting stones. They were just LFG but with a clunky interface after all but people seem to have forgotten them.

So you know, you won't really need to make your own groups by talking to people.

Whats needed in a form of an addon is something like raider.io or the like but that will just get some people here to freak out. It is fully possible though but in a very basic version sadly.

[Mukind]

Not everyone wants to be prevented from escaping the starting zone by the lag and quest bottleneck having 2000 people on your screen at once will create, regardless of how "authentic" you want the experience to be.

Bottom line is people just wont play if they literally cant play the game, then you'll be left with your community of 5 die hard fans complaining they cant get a group together.

Layering wont last forever, it's just a band aid for what is going to be a much bigger launch than the original one. It's not the end of the world.

I just played in a server with 15k people on it in the starting zones lol. The only lag on those servers is when they fucked up an update

The lag isn't an inherent part of the design

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Not everyone wants to be prevented from escaping the starting zone by the lag and quest bottleneck having 2000 people on your screen at once will create, regardless of how "authentic" you want the experience to be.

Bottom line is people just wont play if they literally cant play the game, then you'll be left with your community of 5 die hard fans complaining they cant get a group together.

Layering wont last forever, it's just a band aid for what is going to be a much bigger launch than the original one. It's not the end of the world.

I just played in a server with 15k people on it in the starting zones lol. The only lag on those servers is when they fucked up an update

The lag isn't an inherent part of the design

And shardung low level zones would be much better than what were getting. You're delusional. You think you do, but you don't lol

[Super Kami Dende]

The Community never went away, Antisocial People just suddenly realised no-one interacted with them anymore because they no longer needed to. Most people I see complaining about there being no community are the type of People that most would avoid if given the chance thus they suddenly realised they only had interactions because People were pretty much forced to deal with them otherwise..

[Mukind]

Layering won't be that big of an issue, no more so than not having it and 3/4 of the server leaving in the first month.

This is so wrong lol

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On private servers the community aspect is almost vanished. Granted their megaservers contribute to this but I think it's the people who has changed as well.

Wtf are you smoking? Go try any main stream mmo you will find everyone knows each other on p servers.

I have played many video games not gonna find a stronger "community". And to be clear all that it takes to be a community is be aware of each other and....commune in the game once in a while

Not hold hands while we farm dungeons

[Vakna]

I just played in a server with 15k people on it in the starting zones lol. The only lag on those servers is when they fucked up an update

The lag isn't an inherent part of the design

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I just played in a server with 15k people on it in the starting zones lol. The only lag on those servers is when they fucked up an update

The lag isn't an inherent part of the design

And shardung low level zones would be much better than what were getting. You're delusional. You think you do, but you don't lol

Yeah okay buddy, you're the delusional one if you genuinely think you had 15k people in your starting zone without lag. Literally all video evidence disagrees with you. ANY time large numbers of people gather in one area on WoW the servers take a shit, even in modern day.

[potis]

Its getting tiring to post the same stuff every month because the same posts reappear from a different person.

The community now and back then isnt any different, the difference is Blizzard forcing the communities to meet up which made the majority of bad players, riot about toxicity.

This is how Vanilla worked and pretty much every MMO launch works in every single game.

Better players/no lifers level faster, they have to group up cause no one else is max level, they keep doing that, create a guild, find similar people, start to discard people that only leveled fast but are actually shit at the game, repeat.

A couple of weeks pass and you have progressed max levelers that are done with dungeon content, people reaching max level starting to create the second wave, and every week after that, literally a wave of new players, until you reach a level where "ye, everyone outside my guild is irrelevant cause i am already done with that irrelevant content, lets PvP or Raid guys!".

Vanilla wasnt any different.

People in the big guilds didnt care for anyone outside their guild or maybe the other 1-2 guilds of similar progression, everyone else was an irrelevant nobody that you would never invite or even cared they existed.

And after that, the secondary progression guilds would do the same with the rest, and repeat until it reached the clueless masses that think finally clearing a nerfed BRD 10months at level 60 with a mix of ZG/Craftable/PvP gear, it was an accomplishment.

The problem was when Blizzard decided to add farmable stuff on LFG which forced Wave 1 Players to play with Wave 10 players which caused the problems people are complaining about the last 10 years.

"Toxicity" my ass.

If you havent met toxicity before LFG, it was because you were in the "Irrelevant for the server" mass.

[SinR]

The Game has changed.
The Community around it has as well.

The Game is going back to a simpler time.
The Community is not.

Prepare for addons that give players numbers based on whatever metric you want like Raider.io has. Prepare for asshats to abuse said addons.

[urasim]

The internet was objectively different. These are just the stats from 2000-2010.

https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1151...513849a2_o.png

I don't know what kind of silly goose could claim otherwise. We didn't even have the ability to stream video in 2004. Barely had the ability to upload it. Social media was basically non-existent, smartphones didn't exist yet. Your statement is absurd.

None of that means people changed.

Call of Duty was first released in 2003. The community now is basically the exact same as it was then. How come the internet didn't change that community?

The only thing that changed World of Warcraft's community was the design choices by Blizzard. The game became easier, so more people were able to access content. Then group finder queue system was introduced, and that made it possible for people to completely avoid talking to each other. The internet didn't change the community.

The internet didn't and can't change people. People change people.

As much as I disagree with Vegas82 about almost everything... he's correct about this topic.

[Skjaldbjorn]

This is so wrong lol

So you would rather servers die off allowing those who remain to free farm them until ultimately being merged? Nothing about that is good. Layering sucks but it is far better than the alternatives.

[SirBeef]

I think you drastically underestimate how many people will start forming groups when they realize how hard shit is to do. You can't solo elites in vanilla. You can barely solo them as a hunter. That's not even considering dungeons and other quests. Thats how communities start to be formed. If you can do everything by yourself, you never need anyone else's cooperation or help, and no community is formed.

Complete and utter BS. I did it all the time on my holy paladin.

[Mukind]

Yeah okay buddy, you're the delusional one if you genuinely think you had 15k people in your starting zone without lag. Literally all video evidence disagrees with you. ANY time large numbers of people gather in one area on WoW the servers take a shit, even in modern day.

Get on those servers bro they're very simple no b net integration. 15 years in sever hardware advancement. It can be done if you don't start putting in extra stsyems

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So you would rather servers die off allowing those who remain to free farm them until ultimately being merged? Nothing about that is good. Layering sucks but it is far better than the alternatives.

If sum1 wants to sit on a dead server and farm praying they get merged with my high pop server. They deserve a reward for their faith lol

Vanilla is all about the immersive world and fighting over the mats. I don't wanna add a layer meta game to it. Yes mergers/transfers much better

[bloodwulf]

Very much this.

I have no idea where people get this rose-tinted shit from, it simply wasn't the case most times. Heck, I remember getting as a t1 geared tank just before BWL launch about 10+ whispers an hour to tank X dungeon and such. Most of the time I replied with a "Sorry, am busy atm", but then said players would take that as a call to hassle me every hour thereafter expecting me to drop everything to help *them*, and the incessant whining of "Oh, pleeeeeease, I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED this dungeon and item!" (even more so if you rolled need on an item, and they decided *they* needed it too, and wouldn't shut up the whole fucking instance about it...)
God forbid also, I would say "No thanks, I am not a fan of that dungeon" (Mara and DrM) and then get hassled with either whines, ot on some occasions outright insults. I even remember having someones parent or older sibling start harassing me because I didn't want to take their child round RFC (at 60, in t1).
Combine that with the scammer reports, constant ninja whines, people screeching like banshees when something didn't go there way (friend had a guy screech at him for *ninjaing* Herbs from him, even though he was merely in the same zone, and my friend got their first without pulling mobs or such, the other guy just decided that he saw it on his minimap, thus it was *his*).
Sure, this is all anecdotal, but I could go on, and on about how shitty a lot of the players were, and also many Officers in higher guilds doing higher tier content. The whole design of Classic encouraged ego, drama, and bullshit.
It won't be any different now.

This is someone who played vanilla. Chat was awful. I disabled it frequently as it was unusable, or moved to the player made channels that would pop up occasionally, then eventually get flooded by trolls screaming "MANKIRKS WIFE HUR DUR" and other shit. Vanilla was a toxic cesspool that people with Nostalgiavision need to realize is no different than before. It had more cliques than an average American high school. Due to the fact that you had no options outside your server, you also had the top end guilds gatekeeping people by poaching the better geared players from the lower guild. Gear a good tank, don't expect him to be there in a week. Vanilla was a pyramid system, 1-3 guilds ran the show (same for PVP) and the rest got the scraps. When you have a finite pool of people, you took every advantage you had.