How many lore heroes will N'Zoth kill?

[Kokolums]

The same kind of lovecraftian entity that was a boss in Vanilla? Have you noticed an abundance of rape and murder happening since then?

You're a sick puppy and there's other avenues for you to deal with that than Warcraft.

Who's talking about rape except you? And oh noes, murder in WARcraft.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

The same kind of lovecraftian entity that was a boss in Vanilla? Have you noticed an abundance of rape and murder happening since then?

You're a sick puppy and there's other avenues for you to deal with that than Warcraft.

Pretty ironic to call someone else sick when you bring up rape for no apparent reason than to sound edgy.

[Kokolums]

Pretty ironic to call someone else sick when you bring up rape for no apparent reason than to sound edgy.

I never said anything about rape. This thread is turning bizarre.

[Dellis0991]

I don't think you read my post. I specifically ruled out Varian because it was far from 1v1, with Gul'dan having an army behind him, and it was self sacrifice anyway. The writers destroyed the emotional impact of Varian's death by doing that. They wasted Varian. Gul'dan didn't get a clean kill. It was tainted. So it did NOTHING to build up Gul'dan.

....Boy. Varian's death was the reason why a lot of players came back, it was very emotional, Gul'dan is a fucking warlock, they don't fight fair, they summon ass loads of demons and watch their opponent get torn the fuck apart and lit on fire. For fuck sake there is a spell named after him named the hand of Gul'dan

[qwerty123456]

Considering your argument is retarded and the fact that he rezzed Azshara I'd say he isn't going to kill any heroes but instead revive some.

[SirCowdog]

I think what we've been seeing is a build up of both Lor'themar, Baine, and Saurfang over the course of the expansion. So it's unlikely that they'll kill those characters off.

Nathanos has also been one of main contacts for the War Campaign as well, while Sylvanas has only made an appearance here and there. I think it's likely that Nathanos will not be killed off either, although Sylvanas and he might leave the horde.

On the Alliance side we've seen a pretty decent buildup of Anduin and Jaina. Mekkatorque we know is out of the equation. Velen already had his focus in Legion. Genn's entire storyline revolves around Sylvanas, so his fate is up in the air. And Tyrande has a strong plotline going.

The problem I see is that the minor character, such as Zekkan or Thalyssra or Shaw, don't show up enough to have their deaths mean anything. Whereas more established characters would leave too large of a gap in the lore since Blizzard is only just reaching a point where they've started to replace the gaps left by older characters, such as Varian and Thrall.

I don't see killing characters as a real option. I think we're far more likely to see corruption or transformation, like what happened with Bolvar and the Lich King. Something that leaves characters alive, but drastically changes their role in the lore.

[zlygork]

Considering your argument is retarded and the fact that he rezzed Azshara I'd say he isn't going to kill any heroes but instead revive some.

This, particularly the second part. While non canon, heartstone also makes a point of representing Nzoth as this being that raises the dead, and it is something that can cause a lot of hype depending on how it is implemented.

[OokOok]

One of the KEY ways to make a story compelling is to allow villains to achieve MAJOR and PERMANENT long term goals. Things that really damage the lives of the heroes. A great way to do this is to allow villains to kill heroes. It is permanent and final. It should be 1v1 on even ground to demonstrate the villains are strong. For example, the death of Varian was utterly wasted and worthless because Gul'dan has vastly superior numbers. Varian was alone. Plus, Varian intended to die in self-sacrifice. All of this robbed the event of building up the credibility of Gul'dan. Varian's death meant NOTHING to the story which is a shame. But terrible writing is terrible writing. M'araad died in self sacrifice to superior number as well, and that ALSO robbed the event of any meaning.

So, let's review the major villains of each expansion and how many lore heroes they actually killed 1v1 in the expansion itself.

vanilla: Cthuun - 0
BC: Illidan - 0
Wrath: Arthas - 0 (this was especially embarrassing writing, as technically Arthas defeats us, then they wave a magic wand and erase it)
Cata: Deathwing - 0
MoP: Lei-Shen - 0
WoD: Archimonde - 0
Legion: Sargeras - 0 (made a pathetic flailing swipe at the Vindicaar in his cinematic just to drive home the point he can't kill anyone)

So now we come to BfA. How many lore heroes will N'Zoth kill?

Remember, off-screen doesn't count. For the kill to have emotional impact, it must be 1v1, no self sacrifice, and demonstrate the villains awesome power.

So i'm confused why you have Lei-shen for mop when Garrosh is the main villian and DID kill people of note, like Rhonin?
So if you're going to not know what you're talking about and list MID TIER bosses as the final villian, then technically Legion has gul'dan killing Tirion too

All in all, just a bad post with someone who knows nothing clearly

[Wangming]

Didn't Arthas kill Muh Honor Junior? One on One?

[Archmage Xaxxas]

For example, the death of Varian was utterly wasted and worthless because Gul'dan has vastly superior numbers. Varian was alone. Plus, Varian intended to die in self-sacrifice. All of this robbed the event of building up the credibility of Gul'dan. Varian's death meant NOTHING to the story which is a shame. But terrible writing is terrible writing.

God I hope people don't view your life as being that worthless, despite it having been evidently not worthless.

Like sure we're talking about 'fictional' characters here, but you are just a fictional character inside too, so don't forget that when you point out how Awful the writing is and that his death was meaningless. Think about how your character will die, and will it -really- be more meaningful than Varian's?

Anyways, love yourself then you can love others right.

Also BfA is actually kind of happening because of Varian's death, ala Anduin taking his place and Sylvanas not trusting the Boy King the way she trusted Varian.

[TigTone]

As far as I remember, We killed / defeated C’thun and Yogg.

It’s annoying when lore figures steal player kills.

[Baleful]

No leader 1v1 other leader for the sake of it, that's why we have armies. By that reasoning Hitler wasn't that bad of a guy because he had an army and didn't kill anybody 1v1, despite thousands of deaths on WWII.

[Kokolums]

God I hope people don't view your life as being that worthless, despite it having been evidently not worthless.

Like sure we're talking about 'fictional' characters here, but you are just a fictional character inside too, so don't forget that when you point out how Awful the writing is and that his death was meaningless. Think about how your character will die, and will it -really- be more meaningful than Varian's?

Anyways, love yourself then you can love others right.

Also BfA is actually kind of happening because of Varian's death, ala Anduin taking his place and Sylvanas not trusting the Boy King the way she trusted Varian.

One of the KEY parts of great storytelling is to make sure the obstacles are worthy of your heroes quest. That is a foundational element. One of the reasons WoW storytelling sucks is that the lore heroes resoundingly defeat all villains. The obstacles are not worthy of the quest. The way to fix that is to let the villains score immense victories that build their cred. A great way to accomplish that is feeding them clean kills of lore heroes. WoW is a great place to do this because there are tons of lore heroes to feed villains.

This is why the death of Varian illustrates that the writers are terrible. They killed off of a major lore hero in such a way that it added ZERO cred to the villains. It was no accomplishment for Gul'dan to kill Varian because Gul'dan had vastly superior numbers and Varian was in self-sacrifice mode anyway. So his death accomplished absolutely nothing. It was wasted. I mean, if the writing team comes to me with THAT Varian death scenario, I'm firing them on the spot. If the higher ups order me to write that Varian death scenario, I'm looking for another job.

I have no idea why you wish to inject real world issues into this discussion. I'm talking about the difference between great storytelling and garbage storytelling.

[LuminaL]

One of the KEY ways to make a story compelling is to allow villains to achieve MAJOR and PERMANENT long term goals. Things that really damage the lives of the heroes. A great way to do this is to allow villains to kill heroes. It is permanent and final. It should be 1v1 on even ground to demonstrate the villains are strong. For example, the death of Varian was utterly wasted and worthless because Gul'dan has vastly superior numbers. Varian was alone. Plus, Varian intended to die in self-sacrifice. All of this robbed the event of building up the credibility of Gul'dan. Varian's death meant NOTHING to the story which is a shame. But terrible writing is terrible writing. M'araad died in self sacrifice to superior number as well, and that ALSO robbed the event of any meaning.

So, let's review the major villains of each expansion and how many lore heroes they actually killed 1v1 in the expansion itself.

vanilla: Cthuun - 0
BC: Illidan - 0
Wrath: Arthas - 0 (this was especially embarrassing writing, as technically Arthas defeats us, then they wave a magic wand and erase it)
Cata: Deathwing - 0
MoP: Lei-Shen - 0
WoD: Archimonde - 0
Legion: Sargeras - 0 (made a pathetic flailing swipe at the Vindicaar in his cinematic just to drive home the point he can't kill anyone)

So now we come to BfA. How many lore heroes will N'Zoth kill?

Remember, off-screen doesn't count. For the kill to have emotional impact, it must be 1v1, no self sacrifice, and demonstrate the villains awesome power.

wrong.... very wrong! they dont need to directly kill everyone they see. their lackys and armies kills also count for them.

aside from TBC.

WoTLK: LK killed a whole population of trolls and nerubians in northrend.
wiped the scarlet crusaders of eastern plaguelands.
killed more than dozen of big boys and girls of dragonflights AND killed saurfangs son and (if we put it on his tab, bolvar fordragon)
beside that he actually killed 25 of the most powerful heroes of azeroth, until his father ressed us back into the life and we killed him.
before the events of WoTLK, in WC3, Arthas destroyed two kingdoms easily, summoned a demon that destroyed the world tree resulting in night elves loosing a lot of their powers.

CATA: deathwing managed to kill a lot of dragons, destroyed the dragons immortality, ragnaros almost was successful on killing thrall, also corrupted a dragon, and majordomo straghelm.

with a single move he caused the cataclysm that changed the world forever.

MoP: garrosh destroyed theramor, destroyed eternal waters (or w/e the name ) destroyed half the ashenvale and azshara

WoD: what?

Legion: I think we had the biggest hero kill impact here with thrall getting crippled, warchief of the horde, voljin getting killed, highking of the alliance getting killed, tirion fordring getting killed, wardengs getting rekt, and probably the biggest impact on most of the factions that were involved around the time.
he also almost killed tirion fordring and darion mograin.

edit: also lets not forget the huge sword up Azeroths that almost destroyed the planet. ( from a realistic point of view, the impact from the sword alone would have wiped almost all races and should have caused cataclysmic events 10 times bigger than cataclysm of deathwing, the only living creatures would be those who live far far away from the impact and maybe dwarves and gnomes who live deep beneath the ground. )

[Terongor]

As have the keepers, helya and valajar there are free they know what kind of threat n'zoth was and it was them who imprissoned n'zoth at the height of his power so we don't have anything to worry about really and all the current elemental lord would oppose him aswell and they proved to be a challange to Black empire at its high so they would oppose him aswell and while n'zoth has lost all of his most powerful toys atm and he doesn't have tha masses of the black empire he really wouldn't be an challenge.

[MrLachyG]

I want him to kill a massive amount. 10-15. really, really fuck us over and make us absolutely desperate. we need to lose at the end of BfA

[AwkwardSquirtle]

N'Zoth isn't a mudrerer. It's a schemer. If anyone dies, it will be Arator, but given his lack of on-screen presence lately they might well be saving the "Arator dies and Alleria eats N'Zoth" plot thread for later.
I also agree with those suggesting that there are good odds it'll corrupt someone and we'll do the killing ourselves, which you can credit to it if you wish. That said, a good villain isn't measured merely by their body count.

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I want him to kill a massive amount. 10-15. really, really fuck us over and make us absolutely desperate. we need to lose at the end of BfA

That would be atrocious for storytelling. It either makes it abundantly obvious they'll come back in the next expansion, robbing it of its emotional weight, or we have no characters with anything resembling development remaining, so we have no emotional investment left in anyone. Losing is fine, wiping out the entire cast of notable characters is not. I don't want FemThrall as Warchief and Moira Thaurissan's kid as High King because "we need to lose".

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I never said anything about rape. This thread is turning bizarre.

I know, I quoted him.

[MrLachyG]

N'Zoth isn't a mudrerer. It's a schemer. If anyone dies, it will be Arator, but given his lack of on-screen presence lately they might well be saving the "Arator dies and Alleria eats N'Zoth" plot thread for later.
I also agree with those suggesting that there are good odds it'll corrupt someone and we'll do the killing ourselves, which you can credit to it if you wish. That said, a good villain isn't measured merely by their body count.

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That would be atrocious for storytelling. It either makes it abundantly obvious they'll come back in the next expansion, robbing it of its emotional weight, or we have no characters with anything resembling development remaining, so we have no emotional investment left in anyone. Losing is fine, wiping out the entire cast of notable characters is not. I don't want FemThrall as Warchief and Moira Thaurissan's kid as High King because "we need to lose".

I'm not saying kill all the faction leaders off. maybe only a couple of them. but other min-jor characters like Shaw, Saurfang, Nathanos etc. and no, no bringing them back.

[Leyre]

Arthas is the only one who has done a decent job at killing heroes, until he got robbed of his world first