Why exactly are people so anti-LFR?

[Sansnom]

We have..... It's not being "shredded". We've explained why. You can't just say "JuSt DoNt dO LFR!". It gives gear, and is the easiest form of the raid. People are going to do it. Players take the path of least resistance. People end up doing LFR and then can't be bothered to do Normal or Heroic.

Why is that a problem for the game? If it is a problem for you, that is a personal thing. Not a game thing.

Why is people doing easier content getting inferior gear such an issue for you? What is it such issue that people can get gear that you have no interest in?

If there was just one raid difficulty that everyone can beat with minimum effort, then I would concur that is an issue. But we have four difficulties. You have your contents. You have your toys. They have their contents. They have their toys, But it seems them having contents and having their toys is something you do not like. Why? Do you feel the same about things, like people driving cheaper cars, living in poorer neighbourhoods.

[Thetruth1400]

From a progression standpoint, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to step foot into LFR - you can get as good or better gear just by doing dailies. The only reason anybody does LFR is likely because it's a way for them to see content they otherwise wouldn't see likely because they're too busy to be in an active raiding guild or don't care to invest that much time into the game. So what exactly is the problem with allowing "casuals" to see this content when they're not even being rewarded for it? Why is LFR such a major talking point for classic fanboys and the like? How does it affect your gameplay at all?

1) Raid finder offers 400 gear, WQs can scale that high, but don't right from the start so they are definitely upgrades until your dailies are offering 400 ilvl stuff.
2) There's nothing wrong with "casuals" seeing the content, but there's a difference between seeing it and setting aside some time to actually do it, let alone doing it with a minuscule contribution.
3) If they didn't reward gear, which again you are wrong on and they do offer actual upgrades for the "casuals" as you call them, then they wouldn't really need to exist. People could either watch a video of the fight or dip into Normal mode, which isn't even hard by any metric.
4) LFR is part of the grander problem of gear bloat. Simply put; we don't need 4 raid difficulties, because by Blizzard's own admittance, if they're not rewarding, people don't do them. The reason we need a crunch every other expansion is because of the bloat. Cut out LFR and preferably one other difficulty and we'll go back to a more linear gearing system, not such a spiky one that over inflates to appease egos.

[Kneth]

Why is that a problem for the game? If it is a problem for you, that is a personal thing. Not a game thing.

Why is people doing easier content getting inferior gear such an issue for you? What is it such issue that people can get gear that you have no interest in?

If there was just one raid difficulty that everyone can beat with minimum effort, then I would concur that is an issue. But we have four difficulties. You have your contents. You have your toys. They have their contents. They have their toys, But it seems them having contents and having their toys is something you do not like. Why? Do you feel the same about things, like people driving cheaper cars, living in poorer neighbourhoods.

Both in Vanilla and TBC watching someone run by you with some good looking shoulders or a cool looking weapon that only dropped in raid was amazing. It made you wanna go get them yourself, you wanna be that guy with the cool gear, but it's no easy feat, as you have to go do a raid and get the items, and that is not something you JUST do.

LFR changed that, it's no longer cool to watch someone run by with raid shoulders or a raid weapon becasue everyone can get them by the click of a button, you don't have to spend time and effort on it, you just que up and get them. LFR takes zero effort as you can complete it while standing in shit and half the raid auto attacking through the fight. It doesn't matter that LFR stats are worse or that the items have a different tint to their color compared to harder difficulties, everyone has them and it sucks, it ruins the game and it ruins the experience and wonder for newer players. Raids should be hard and should require investment.

This for me is what i hate about LFR and to some extend LFG.

raiding isn't and shouldn't be for everyone, and if you don't have the time to raid 4 hours two times a week.. then tough luck, you're not getting that raid gear.

[rhorle]

4) LFR is part of the grander problem of gear bloat. Simply put; we don't need 4 raid difficulties, because by Blizzard's own admittance, if they're not rewarding, people don't do them. The reason we need a crunch every other expansion is because of the bloat. Cut out LFR and preferably one other difficulty and we'll go back to a more linear gearing system, not such a spiky one that over inflates to appease egos.

The bloat would still exist with out LFR. Because the bloat is not caused by LFR. People need to stop blaming LFR for every problem in the game and just blame the actual systems that take cause bloat to exist. Mists did not have that big of a bloat problem and it had LFR. The bloat in mists came from the item upgrade system which added 8 and then 16 item levels to gear.

But bloat isn't really an issue anyways. Who cares if your gear is +16 instead of +6. It is still an upgrade relative to what you had before.

[Relapses]

Arent you the master of hyperbole.

"restructure their entire livelihood at the drop of a hat to be able to make time for a raid"

Do you assume every person has as bad time-management skills as you?

LMFAO, you do realize I was paraphrasing you, right?

The only hyperbole here is your ridiculous notion that time management is the only factor that prevents people from participating in organized raiding.

[rhorle]

Do you assume every person has as bad time-management skills as you?

Well you are assuming that because some people can do something everyone can do it. Should we dismiss you because you haven't had time to get a high post count here when others have? Clearly you are lazy and made terrible life choices. That is the problem with your argument. There are valid reasons for why someone choose to do LFR versus organized or unorganized normal.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

You absolutley can avoid it You absolutely do not need to trinkets to complete the higher levels of the raid. That is you showing no self control.

I dont know where you play but i get banched @"higher lvls of play" if i dont give 100% on farming my bis stuff especially Trinkets which give you the biggest dps push (lfr coral ist stronger than every m+ trinket on 450 on my class btw)

[Dundenarr]

I don't have an issue with raid finder so those who don't raid can see the end game content. I would rather it dropped transmogs. pets and mounts instead of a lesser ilvl item of the raid gear. In the past when I raided the raid leader would expect you to do raid finder to upgrade items that had not dropped in the regular raid yet. It sometimes takes many runs in a regular raid to get an item to drop or it might never drop. So if you still have a blue dungeon trinket you end up doing LFR to get the upgrade. The downside is you burn out fast on the raid.

[Revamp Man]

Still wrong. Heroic dropped 509 for the first tier or raiding in 5.0. That means 5.2 LFR dropping 502 was still not an upgrade. Also of note is that 5.1 allowed you to upgrade your items up to 8 item levels. Which is also why the item levels of 502 are where they were at. They needed to ensure all levels of content saw "upgrades" in the respective content.

"LFR dropped better gear than you would get outside of heroic"

[KaPe]

"LFR dropped better gear than you would get outside of heroic"

Conveniently forgetting to mention "heroic of previous raid tier", which is kind of a meaningful difference.

[damonskye]

I don't have an issue with raid finder so those who don't raid can see the end game content. I would rather it dropped transmogs. pets and mounts instead of a lesser ilvl item of the raid gear. In the past when I raided the raid leader would expect you to do raid finder to upgrade items that had not dropped in the regular raid yet. It sometimes takes many runs in a regular raid to get an item to drop or it might never drop. So if you still have a blue dungeon trinket you end up doing LFR to get the upgrade. The downside is you burn out fast on the raid.

Thing is, that is pretty much completely blown out the window with 8.2. Azshara's Eternal Palace LFR drops ilvl 400 gear. Benthic tokens give you 385 gear as soon as you start doing Nazjatar, and you can upgrade nearly all of them to level 400 with one week of play (even sooner if the Nazjatar rep emissary is up and offering prismatic manapearls). Meanwhile, play Mechagon for a week or two and you'll be able to get level 400+ rings and trinkets (starting with the punch card trinket). The ONLY remaining slot that doesn't have an easy upgrade is the weapon slot... but you can either roll for that out of an equipment emissary reward or get lucky and grab it from one of the two Nazjatar world bosses (both of which offer ilvl 415 gear anyway, so grab that bonus roll coin.)

There is literally no reason for people to go into LFR if they've done all of that... hell, you can out-gear NORMAL mode EP doing it. For people who like to play daily and do both zones as much as possible (and there are a lot of us, because both zones offer the zone-wide achievement & mounts), LFR remains a just-for-fun play mode.

Which is exactly what LFR *really* is -- a just-for-fun thing to play. This is the fundamental issue so many people in this thread, and elsewhere, just cannot accept: something in the game that exists solely for the people who want to use it, that isn't mandatory and is utilized primarily by people who don't want to raid normal or beyond. It doesn't prevent anyone from doing harder content; it serves people who don't want to DO harder content. It doesn't offer "welfare gear" because gear is transitory, and the only person in the world that truly cares about a player's gear is that character, nobody else. It doesn't dumb down the game. It's just another feature, take it or leave it.

And as I've said before, it's not ever going away, so all of this is moot.

[Mardux]

Conveniently forgetting to mention "heroic of previous raid tier", which is kind of a meaningful difference.

Well yeah. Why wouldn't he intentionally leave out information when said information would invalidate his own bs argument?

[Sansnom]

Both in Vanilla and TBC watching someone run by you with some good looking shoulders or a cool looking weapon that only dropped in raid was amazing. It made you wanna go get them yourself, you wanna be that guy with the cool gear, but it's no easy feat, as you have to go do a raid and get the items, and that is not something you JUST do.

For you maybe. People have this misconception that everyone who plays the game thinks like them and feel the same way as well despite the evidence of the contrary.

LFR changed that, it's no longer cool to watch someone run by with raid shoulders or a raid weapon becasue everyone can get them by the click of a button, you don't have to spend time and effort on it, you just que up and get them.

Not everyone cares. To them, it is a game. To have fun. It is not a parade of who has what and who does not.

raiding isn't and shouldn't be for everyone, and if you don't have the time to raid 4 hours two times a week.. then tough luck, you're not getting that raid gear.

You are not special. You are a customer. Just like everyone else. Whether they cleared mythic as world first or just LFR. You do not get more privileges. You certainly do not get to dictate what and how the games should be played.

if you have a problem with that, that is your tough luck. It seems like you are not playing this game for fun but for some imaginary status of superiority.

[infinitemeridian]

LFR doesn't matter anymore. I don't think many people even do it, there's no problem with it staying in the game at this point. Complaining about LFR is "so 5 years ago", back when LFR was relevant.

It pales in comparison to actual issues, like class design, boring content outside of instances, RNG, etc.

[Big Thanks]

LFR doesn't matter anymore. I don't think many people even do it, there's no problem with it staying in the game at this point. Complaining about LFR is "so 5 years ago", back when LFR was relevant.

It pales in comparison to actual issues, like class design, boring content outside of instances, RNG, etc.

thats a nice point.
Didnt LFR gave almost the same item level as normal raiding? Like...really close? If not the same.

On Deathwing, the first iteration.

[infinitemeridian]

thats a nice point.
Didnt LFR gave almost the same item level as normal raiding? Like...really close? If not the same.

On Deathwing, the first iteration.

I don't think it's ever done that, but they removed LFR-specific sets, there's no more tier bonuses, the ilvl is irrelevant, etc. Blizz has done all in their power to effectively neuter LFR in the last 2 expacs bar removing it.

Plus, normal got much easier starting in WoD / Legion so it's not like LFR has that niche any more either.

[Big Thanks]

I don't think it's ever done that, but they removed LFR-specific sets, there's no more tier bonuses, the ilvl is irrelevant, etc. Blizz has done all in their power to effectively neuter LFR in the last 2 expacs bar removing it.

Plus, normal got much easier starting in WoD / Legion so it's not like LFR has that niche any more either.

From WoWHead, LFR Dragon Soul drops 110 and Normal 10 man drops 112...and Heroic 114...strange.
Is probably wrong

[infinitemeridian]

From WoWHead, LFR Dragon Soul drops 110 and Normal 10 man drops 112.

I don't think that's accurate given ilvl squishes over the years.

[SkagenRora]

I dont know where you play but i get banched @"higher lvls of play" if i dont give 100% on farming my bis stuff especially Trinkets which give you the biggest dps push (lfr coral ist stronger than every m+ trinket on 450 on my class btw)

That's why you say fu to such guilds and just quit.

[Piplupzero]

because people are having fun in the wrong way and that is something hardcore gamers will not stand for!