Mythic+ mentality ruined classic dungeons

[Unholyground]

Could you make a post in shaman forum detailing how to do this for young padawans like me who want to become strong in the ways of enhance?

Ya I can probably do a short guide on it.

[ONCHEhap]

This kind of player will eventually go away as they burn through the content like locusts and they find themselves out of anything to do,it's an issue that will resolve itself,don't worry too much about it and don't pay attention to them too much.
Besides,if you take your time and enjoy the content,they will outpace you real fast,so you won't see them as much

[Sanguinerd]

When in doubt just blame retail players.

[Big Thanks]

Control isn't the right word. But design absolutely can influence behavior.

+1 from me

I share the same opinion. I have many examples of this being the case.

[garicasha]

Also 46 is hardly a “ridiculous” requirement for ZF.

Granted 46 is by no means necessary.

But it’s literally the first level where the final boss (48) is yellow to the player.

IMO requiring 49 and higher would be ridiculous, with 47-48 being a little overblown.

Although it is kinda funny this specific example was used, as just this morning I healed a 4 DPS run with a 50 rogue “tanking” that went smooth, then a run with a 43 druid bear that fell apart after two wipes.

[arkanon]

Yeah, i thinkt the missing novelty (everyone knows the content, the general boss and class mechanics already) and the nowadays toxic existing community will make classic another piece of content, nothing more.

Consumed asap, just to be forgotten one month later.

Hang on, why is everyone trying to differentiate between people playing classic, and the classic community? They are the same thing.........Why can you lot not understand that? If people are playing Classic, they ARE the community.

So many people tried to warn others of the rose tinted glasses regarding the "community" and that they are only remembering the things they want to remember, and forgetting all the horrible shitty groups full of elitist pricks wanting to rush everything with the meta group comp and exploding in rage at every mistake by anyone. But the tint was too strong.

I will say it one more time - the people playing Classic, the people in your groups, the people rushing and making demands forming groups, they ARE the classic community.

[Fred Skinner]

Hang on, why is everyone trying to differentiate between people playing classic, and the classic community? They are the same thing.........Why can you lot not understand that? If people are playing Classic, they ARE the community.

Yes, and i did not differentiate. I think it is the nowadays community which plays both classic and retail.

I believe Classic is something to do for many players if there is no content to do in retail. Which unfortunately is the case often.

Blizzard needs to create a lot more content for retail. Classic will get no new content.

[Zentail]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

If you’re not level 46 for ZF, you’re gonna have a harder time hitting highest level bosses. I think 46 is reasonable 100%. You’re completely unreasonable for expecting lower levels. 45 wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world but 44 is reeeaaallllyyyy stretching it.

Also, cleave groups were always a thing. This isn’t Mythic+ mentality. What you’re seeing existed in Vanilla. It existed in BC. It always existed. Heck, it existed in games before WoW. This isn’t some new retail concept like you’re claiming. Retail isn’t creeping into Classic, at least not yet. A side note: no one CC’d in Vanilla either. Wasn’t necessary at all unless your group was subpar or the tank was dumb and legit pulled too many groups.

[arkanon]

Yes, and i did not differentiate. I think it is the nowadays community which plays both classic and retail.

I believe Classic is something to do for many players if there is no content to do in retail. Which unfortunately is the case often.

Blizzard needs to create a lot more content for retail. Classic will get no new content.

What if i told you that i dont agree, and that i believe it is the returning vanilla players causing the issues?

[garicasha]

Right now it’s also a non-representative sample because many people level 40+ either played a lot of hours or very efficiently.

[Fred Skinner]

What if i told you that i dont agree, and that i believe it is the returning vanilla players causing the issues?

I would be interested in the argumentation.

[arkanon]

I would be interested in the argumentation.

Since day 1, Classic has been promoted as the anti retail game (by the community, not blizzard) - so massively different in every way, it would not appeal to retail players at all. Almost like an antivenom to the toxicity of retail. If that were true, why would so many retail players be playing classic, a game that apparently is everything they hate? Why would they be running these old dungeons for little to no reward, instead of playing M+ in retail, a system with endless progression?

I put it to you that this toxicity (as some call it) has been there since day one, nothing has changed, and players are simply more aware of it now. It is returning players and PS players bringing this attitude with them, and is nothing to do with "retail players" - put simply, retail players are still playing retail, that is what makes them retail players.

[Fred Skinner]

You have a Backpedal based party, who are doubtful and inexperienced, thus resulting instances being slow.
And you have an Action based players, who are confident in their skill, and completes instances as fast as possible.

Well, today it is seen as weakness to show missing experience.

In original classic, that was quite normal.

Nowadays even players which are not that experienced act as if they are the greatest. And every missing skill leads to being locked out from group play. Which generates a level of a meritocracy you normally only know from early 19th century capitalism.

[Khaza-R]

Seems like the minority. Albeit a very vocal one.

Its also kind of inevitable. The player base are 13-15 years older than they were in Vanilla. Most players have more out of game responsibilities and less time to play. Its understandable if they don't want to run around an instance for 1-2 hours.

And its not a bad thing. At least in Classic you still have a choice if you want to run dungeons the old school way. Unlike retail were you are forced to focus on fast clears.

[Fred Skinner]

I put it to you that this toxicity (as some call it) has been there since day one, nothing has changed, and players are simply more aware of it now. It is returning players and PS players bringing this attitude with them, and is nothing to do with "retail players" - put simply, retail players are still playing retail, that is what makes them retail players.

I do not think the community at start was as toxic as today. Just because it was quite normal to be inexperienced. Nowadays everyone has to be a pro. Or he finds no players to play together with.

Which happened only because of blizzards design focus on competition in a MMORPG. We literally have the same community as like MOBAs in a MMORPG nowadays, because blizzard tried to force WoW into an esport scheme with arena competitions and mythic dungeons tournaments. Blizzard created a relentless meritocracy, starting in the burning crusade with arena.

In classic, there literally was no component, which allowed tournaments and competitions. Yet, people play classic nowadays as if performance is everything.

The community is very sick, if it only wants op class combos and overgeared players for normal content.

[Estravolt]

Unlike retail were you are forced to focus on fast clears.

Who's forcing you tho?

[Biomega]

Who's forcing you tho?

Do you know how M+ works?

[Estravolt]

Do you know how M+ works?

Yes, I do. And not once have I had someone forcing me to blast through it like a madman.

[Alvito]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

This is more of a problem with people seeing groups triple mage 1 lock 1 priest aoe spam dungeons and just kite everything until it dies. Stupid twitch fans are the issue and people not understanding why, when or how things are done.

[pewpmeiser]

this isn't because of m+, this is just because of people wanting to take less time to do things in general