Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Edge-]

are you saying RINOS and DINOS don't exist?

Absolutely, 100%

For example, Manchin is a conservative Democrat who will frequently "break ranks" and vote with Republicans. That's because his district leans much more conservative and his responsibility is to represent them. He, as with most accused "RINO" politicians, still votes with his party on key issues, but any party demanding that ALL votes be along party lines lest the member be accused of being a "RINO/DINO" is deeply internally troubled and should re-evaluate themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_In_Name_Only

DINO was only coined in response to Republicans coining "RINO", as previous terms referring to these more conservative Democrats like "Blue Dog Democrat" stem from the names those groups created for themselves, not pejoratives used to attack them by their fellow party members.

[Endus]

are you saying RINOS and DINOS don't exist?

Anyone using either term is an extremist partisan who shouldn't be taken seriously in the first place.

They're literally telling you they're so wildly biased that they can't accept views of allies that aren't as extreme as their own, and consider them borderline traitors and liars for claiming to be in the same group.

[Belize]

Yes, pretty sure I have said this several times, because partisans are partisans.

Well, I'm glad you're finally coming to terms with being partisan.

I'll also keep this in mind, since you're not arguing that Trump didn't do anything wrong, for the next time you post some nonsense from a hackfraud website trying to deflect from Trump.

[zenkai]

Well, I'm glad you're finally coming to terms with being partisan.

I'll also keep this in mind, since you're not arguing that Trump didn't do anything wrong, for the next time you post some nonsense from a hackfraud website trying to deflect from Trump.

Never said anything like that, please be honest and not try to bait me with these silly things.

[Xeones]

I already acknowledged my correction, try to keep up

What correction? You made it clear you thought he got off only because democrats were in charge, they weren't, and that you think Trump should get off because republicans are in charge. Then expressed discontent by calling anyone who didn't want to vote to convict Clinton over what I've only ever heard a consensual affair a RINO.

The Clinton impeachment effort was a joke. Trump has actually proven on his own initiative that he has committed a crimes specifically stated in the constitution as being deserving of impeachment.

You can want it to be about party lines, and I don't believe in the integrity of the republican party so I do believe only a small portion will vote to convict.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Nah, he will have a fake show trial with Lindsey Graham focusing more on Biden and the house democrats to paint another narrative for Trump then when the impeachment vote fails Trump will claim to be TOTALLY EXONERATED.

Exactly my fear as well.

And the woke iNdEPeNdEntS will eat it up.

[zenkai]

What correction? You made it clear you thought he got off only because democrats were in charge, they weren't, and that you think Trump should get off because republicans are in charge. Then expressed discontent by calling anyone who didn't want to vote to convict Clinton over what I've only ever heard a consensual affair a RINO.

The Clinton impeachment effort was a joke. Trump has actually proven on his own initiative that he has committed a crimes specifically stated in the constitution as being deserving of impeachment.

You can want it to be about party lines, and I don't believe in the integrity of the republican party so I do believe only a small portion will vote to convict.

Committing Perjury is a joke? Obstruction of Justice a Joke? Remember that when/if Trump goes through the impeachment process.

[Xeones]

Committing Perjury is a joke? Obstruction of Justice a Joke? Remember that when/if Trump goes through the impeachment process.

What justice?

[Edge-]

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...achment-026123

"Lowering the cost of prescription drugs, taking on the pharmaceutical companies, you think that’s easy, it’s not easy. It’s not easy. ... I wouldn’t be surprised if the hoax didn’t come a little bit from some of the people that we’re taking on." Trump said.

Trump is legitimately frantically shitting into his hand and throwing it on the wall hoping SOMETHING sticks enough to distract from the impeachment news.

He's truly a sad, pathetic, delusional man and anyone supporting him still is de-facto endorsing this kind of unhinged behavior.

[Draco-Onis]

I mean I've said repeatedly I expect Trump to make it to the 2020 election, but it is important impeachment happens.

First, it speaks to history that the majority of Americans stood up to Trump's clear abuse of power.

Secondly, it's already badly damaging him and it's going to get worse and will continue to damage him into next year.

And third, if it comes up for a vote and the national political situation for Republicans looks bad... who knows... maybe McConnell takes a walk down Penn Ave and tells Trump the gig is up. But probably not.

But let's find out!

I agree the point is to cripple the republicans and Trump especially them going on record endorsing his behavior. The polls will determine the outcome if the senate is suddenly in play then McConnell will tell Trump the gig is up but I don't see that happening at the moment either.

[Belize]

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...achment-026123



Trump is legitimately frantically shitting into his hand and throwing it on the wall hoping SOMETHING sticks enough to distract from the impeachment news.

He's truly a sad, pathetic, delusional man and anyone supporting him still is de-facto endorsing this kind of unhinged behavior.

Oh, so Impeachement is because of... Big Pharma?

Uh.

'Aight.

[Draco-Onis]

Exactly my fear as well.

And the woke iNdEPeNdEntS will eat it up.

There's a good chance that will be the outcome regardless of the evidence, the democrats job is to make this shit sandwich as big and as nasty as possible when the republicans swallow it to cover up for Trump.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...achment-026123



Trump is legitimately frantically shitting into his hand and throwing it on the wall hoping SOMETHING sticks enough to distract from the impeachment news.

He's truly a sad, pathetic, delusional man and anyone supporting him still is de-facto endorsing this kind of unhinged behavior.

I honestly don't know why he is in a panic Moscow Mitch got his back.

[Skroe]

Frankly, I think both the Nixon and Clinton aftermaths show that issuing pardons or second chances or the like is just not something that should ever be done. More particularly the Nixon issue, but Clinton should have been pressured to step down (over the infidelity and his abuse of the office in that regard, which wasn't criminal).

If consequences aren't enforced, then this shit is being sanctioned. That's why things have gotten this bad; there are no consequences for those in power, because they're the ones who decide if there are consequences. And that's fucked.

A member of the highest political offices in the land should be facing the absolute highest possible penalties for crimes committed before or during their tenure. Penalties need to scale up as wealth and power levels do, not down, which is the current pattern.

Someone being caught with personal-use amounts of heroin should be facing like a week in prison and a recommendation to rehab. A pharmacorp executive caught misrepresenting opiod risks and garnering millions thereby should be facing 30+ years before parole is even an option. The politicians they bought off to push legislation through, the same. Penalties need to scale up with power and wealth, and right now, that's not the case.

I agree with every word in this post. And would add Reagan (Iran Contra) and members of the Bush Administration (maybe Bush '43 himself) over Iraq War warcrimes.

Again to relay the story... my brother is a New York City Assistant District Attorney. He does public accountability - fighting corruption and wrong doing in cops, public servants, elected officials, union leaders - that sort of thing. And his position - one that I agree with - is that if people have the public trust, the standards must be HIGHER not lower. If they have a gun, or they have public responsibility, they don't get a mulligan and they don't go easy on them because their jobs are hard.

He's arrested cops infront of their families. He's thrown other lawyers in the DA's office in jail. Corruption happens at every level. And the fight for quality control requires the highest of standards. And it's often not enough.

And who higher than the President? We should never go easy on the President. When the President fails, replace him. Big deal. There is a Vice President there for that purpose too.

The problems is, as I've written before, we have a President by name, but the consolidation of power since World War II is really an elected Emperor, which is why school children typically can easily name all the Presidents since FDR, but have a much harder time before FDR. Really in contemporary America the unofficial line of Presidents are Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR through Trump. And what's the common thread? They're all the Presidents who wielded the greatest amount of power. Missing are the highly effective but comparatively weaker-in-relative-power Presidents who did much to modernize the country in the 19th and 20th century.

So we treat putting consequences on the President not like it should be, which is consequences on a public servant. We instead treat it like we're committing regicide. This is really unusual because America's relationship with its state governors is very healthy. Plenty have been felled for corruption and failures over the years. By the words of Hamilton himself, the role of American Presidency is based on the then-contemporary Governorship of New York. Nominally, the 50 governors and the President should be more equal than they are. In the order of precedence in the US (the ceremonial order), the Governor of the state comes right after the President and VP, and before the Speaker of the House and the Chief Justice.

This society needs consequences top to bottom. We're terrified of them. We won't punish high office holders for failures and abuses. We won't ruin the lives of business men who embezzle money. So on and so forth. I'm not sure if you've read my NASA posts ever, but the head of human spaceflight was fired earlier this year, despite the program he is managing running 6 years behind schedule and $7 billion over budget, despite being lavishly funded by Congress. Folks were saying he should have been fired years ago... that he personally was the problem. But it took an outsider to come in and clean house. And this is not unusual at all. When the Chinese made off with the US prize jewels for sub communications 18 months ago, nobody lost their job over it.

That's why going forward, one of my cornerstone political positions is that we must be draconian in wrongdoing and failure. It's literally one strike and you're out.


And if President's fail... big deal... there will be others. Get them out of there. Next one up. Disposable as a paper towel.

[Edge-]

Oh, so Impeachement is because of... Big Pharma?

Uh.

'Aight.

Democrats and Big Pharma secretly worked together to set up a call between Trump and Zelensky back in June that nobody knew about in which they managed to force Trump to request that Zelensky investigate a political opponent. They then worked together to hide this call transcript on classified servers and manipulated the Trump administration into lying about it for weeks.

Because I guess that's a pretty sound theory to...uh...a fucking crazy person.

[Draco-Onis]

Committing Perjury is a joke? Obstruction of Justice a Joke?

There was no obstruction of justice for Clinton not sure what you are on about and you shouldn't be talking about this since you support a criminal.

[Shadowferal]

I honestly don't know why he is in a panic Moscow Mitch got his back.

I don't think so...

[Benggaul]

So you're trying to rewrite history to justify your position of ignoring the law and constitution?

No, he's trying--and succeeding, due partly to Thwart's complicity--to derail the thread so that everyone is talking about Clinton instead of Trump. We all know what he's saying is bullshit, so stop feeding it. Ignore and move on.

[zenkai]

There was no obstruction of justice for Clinton not sure what you are on about and you shouldn't be talking about this since you support a criminal.

Pretty sure I made it clear I didn't support Clinton

[Endus]

This society needs consequences top to bottom. We're terrified of them. We won't punish high office holders for failures and abuses. We won't ruin the lives of business men who embezzle money. So on and so forth.

I've said in other contexts, but I think it extends to this one as well, that the USA simply wasn't ready for democracy. You threw off the shackles of monarchy, and then immediately panicked and started doing everything you could to rebuild a new aristocracy to replace it, calling it anything else but that. The worship of business moguls (and that's not new; goes back to Henry Ford and railroad magnates and such), the celebration of . . . celebrity, the way there seem to be no consequences for the wealthy, all of this is exactly how an aristocracy works. You're even rebuilding hereditary dynastic families.

You got rid of your kings and dukes, and immediately moved to replace them, rather than growing beyond the need for them.

[nonameelf]

So, basically, the new WOKE INDEPENDENT talking point of the day is "Clinton wasn't removed for crimes so Trump shouldn't be removed for crimes either" while ignoring that Trump's crimes are much more serious?

I mean, Bribery is straight up listed in the constitution as a cause for impeachment.