Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[DarkTZeratul]

The real issue at hand here is that, for the first time in human history, we are seeing a nation with nuclear weapons destabilize politically and culturally.

First of all, no.

Second of all, what would you call the breakup of the USSR if not a nuclear power destabilizing politically and culturally?

[Kaleredar]

The real issue at hand here is that, for the first time in human history, we are seeing a nation with nuclear weapons destabilize politically and culturally.

"...for the first time in human history..."

In almost all cases, when a nation destabilizes in this way, a radical extremist authoritarian assumes power.

"when this has happened before this other thing happens..."

Which is it?

Keep your laughable fantasy world straight, at least.

So this entire thing is a huge threat to the human race. I give humanity a very low chance of still existing in 10 years. And people are gonna say its Trumps fault or its the democrats. No, its everyones fault for failing at social skills, failing to listen and understand.

But it wouldnt surprise me in the least if, when the nukes are flying and humanity is about to go extinct, its last words will be "its the fault of [ insert rival political faction here ]"

Weird that you think that excising a corrupt politician is somehow "weakening" the US.

The US bringing successful impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump would be one of the most singularly powerful, uniting, and forward-thinking motions the country could take.

Exposing corruption and pointing out the flaws in a system and not tolerating the existence of these failures and flaws and working to change them is not weakness. That it's a weakness is the opinion of tin pot dictators and authoritarians you purport to be against: that "speaking out against the state and pointing out any flaws is heresy, and to be avoided at all cost because it might cause internal disorder."

The US has survived worse crises than some moronic goon trying to rifle the office of presidency for his own gain. His excision, as I noted, would be one of the best, most healthful things the US has ever done, both in removing a dangerous cancer from office and in demonstrating to others that bullshit like his will not be tolerated.


Thinking the US to be so weak and its people's resolve so tawdry paints the image of you... simply not being a resident of the United States.

[Xeones]

The real issue at hand here is that, for the first time in human history, we are seeing a nation with nuclear weapons destabilize politically and culturally. In almost all cases, when a nation destabilizes in this way, a radical extremist authoritarian assumes power. So this entire thing is a huge threat to the human race. I give humanity a very low chance of still existing in 10 years. And people are gonna say its Trumps fault or its the democrats. No, its everyones fault for failing at social skills, failing to listen and understand.

But it wouldnt surprise me in the least if, when the nukes are flying and humanity is about to go extinct, its last words will be "its the fault of [ insert rival political faction here ]"

So the fact that you're ignoring the USSR has been covered.

Are you trying to say the US is destabilizing? It's just I'm having difficulties figuring out the specifics of your post, I know you love to claim a civil war is on the imminent horizon, I'm getting the impression you believe there is going to be nuclear war because Trump is a criminal who deserves to be impeached.

[Dontrike]

The real issue at hand here is that, for the first time in human history, we are seeing a nation with nuclear weapons destabilize politically and culturally. In almost all cases, when a nation destabilizes in this way, a radical extremist authoritarian assumes power. So this entire thing is a huge threat to the human race. I give humanity a very low chance of still existing in 10 years. And people are gonna say its Trumps fault or its the democrats. No, its everyones fault for failing at social skills, failing to listen and understand.

But it wouldnt surprise me in the least if, when the nukes are flying and humanity is about to go extinct, its last words will be "its the fault of [ insert rival political faction here ]"

Seriously, lady, you gotta stop with this stuff. Mostly because you're wrong and forgot the USSR and the constant civil war shit is fucking tiring. The well has dried up. Let. It. Go.

[Xyonai]

The real issue at hand here is that, for the first time in human history, we are seeing a nation with nuclear weapons destabilize politically and culturally. In almost all cases, when a nation destabilizes in this way, a radical extremist authoritarian assumes power. So this entire thing is a huge threat to the human race. I give humanity a very low chance of still existing in 10 years. And people are gonna say its Trumps fault or its the democrats. No, its everyones fault for failing at social skills, failing to listen and understand.

But it wouldnt surprise me in the least if, when the nukes are flying and humanity is about to go extinct, its last words will be "its the fault of [ insert rival political faction here ]"

I'm still fuckin' baffled that you think the fate of the stability of the planet rests on Donald Fucking Trump and pandering to extremist idiots. There's no 'destabilization' happening, he'll there's barely any civil unrest save for those Proud Boy / Antifa skirmishes and the occasional MAGA murderer. The way you're describing this shit, I'm expecting to see riots on the news like what's going on in HK or Chile but at most it's just nettled protesters and internet tough guys jacking themselves off to the idea of shooting liberals.

Not even going to touch on the 'first time in human history we've seen a nation with nukes destabilize' when a good chunk of posters here remember the Soviet Union's collapse and the world kept spinning.

[Kaleredar]

I'm still fuckin' baffled that you think the fate of the stability of the planet rests on Donald Fucking Trump and pandering to extremist idiots. There's no 'destabilization' happening, he'll there's barely any civil unrest save for those Proud Boy / Antifa skirmishes and the occasional MAGA murderer. The way you're describing this shit, I'm expecting to see riots on the news like what's going on in HK or Chile but at most it's just nettled protesters and internet tough guys jacking themselves off to the idea of shooting liberals.

They seem to lack the context of people being hosed down and having dogs sicced on them in the streets during the civil rights era, or the entire country splitting in half and going to war with itself during the civil war.

The US survived those, and came out better and more progressed than before.


I'm also annoyed at their constant insistence that "removing Trump" or "electing a democrat" will result in some sort of "dam of gun nuts" breaking leading to mass slaughter, which sounds a lot like some tacit plea to "appease" these people, lest they go on a murderous rampage.

The lawless should fear the just, not the other way around.

[Milchshake]

Whut? What was Soviet Union?

As Eco and scholars have always pointed out. Historical illiteracy is always a feature for the fascist or proto-fascist. Makes them easier to manipulate.

[Moonstream]

It took Bill Taylor an hour to deliver his opening statement

The opening statement from Ambassador Bill Taylor took roughly an hour to deliver, according to multiple people in the room. Sources said that the statement was rich with detail.

Democrats described Taylor’s testimony as damning to the President.

“All I have to say is that in my 10 short months in Congress … it’s my most disturbing day in Congress so far,” said Rep. Andy Levin, a freshman Democrat from Michigan.
Republicans, however, downplayed Taylor’s testimony. Rep. Mark Meadows, a Republican from North Carolina, said of Taylor’s testimony there was “nothing new here, I think.”

“We're trying to see if any witness has a connection between foreign aid and pausing the foreign aid. As it relates to the quid pro quo, we haven't had any witness suggest that,” Meadows said.

A big ol'nothing burger I'm sure.

[TexasRules]

It took Bill Taylor an hour to deliver his opening statement

A big ol'nothing burger I'm sure.

How would anyone know if this is a nothing burger if you hold all your meetings in secret? If this is truly as damning as democrats say and Trump has truly broken laws and is corrupt, why are they hiding it from everyone? Why is it not open testimony? Why is there no whistleblower testifying? Why not just show everyone if this is so damaging and threatening?

[tumppu]

Tbh if there was no moderation at all in this forum, I'd view it as an improvement.

I'm inclined to agree. At least certain "moderators" would no longer dole out unneeded bans.

[kaelleria]

How would anyone know if this is a nothing burger if you hold all your meetings in secret? If this is truly as damning as democrats say and Trump has truly broken laws and is corrupt, why are they hiding it from everyone? Why is it not open testimony? Why is there no whistleblower testifying? Why not just show everyone if this is so damaging and threatening?

Because they're doing the investigative work now. Once that is complete it will move over to the Judiciary committee which will have public hearings.

[TexasRules]

Because they're doing the investigative work now. Once that is complete it will move over to the Judiciary committee which will have public hearings.

Then why announce it to the country? What is the point of investigating openly? Why did this process start before he even took office?

[Edge-]

Why did this process start before he even took office?

It didn't.

[kaelleria]

Then why announce it to the country? What is the point of investigating openly? Why did this process start before he even took office?

Because it didn't?
https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-i...4e04096a5.html

[tumppu]

I'm still fuckin' baffled that you think the fate of the stability of the planet rests on Donald Fucking Trump and pandering to extremist idiots. There's no 'destabilization' happening, he'll there's barely any civil unrest save for those Proud Boy / Antifa skirmishes and the occasional MAGA murderer. The way you're describing this shit, I'm expecting to see riots on the news like what's going on in HK or Chile but at most it's just nettled protesters and internet tough guys jacking themselves off to the idea of shooting liberals.

Not even going to touch on the 'first time in human history we've seen a nation with nukes destabilize' when a good chunk of posters here remember the Soviet Union's collapse and the world kept spinning.

That is probably what their "feeds" are feeding them. That civilization as we know it is actually collapsing etc. What the rest of the world is seeing is a presidency based on lies and deceit collapsing under the weight of it's lies and deceit. I only hope it takes down a couple of others along with it.

[Thekri]

How would anyone know if this is a nothing burger if you hold all your meetings in secret? If this is truly as damning as democrats say and Trump has truly broken laws and is corrupt, why are they hiding it from everyone? Why is it not open testimony? Why is there no whistleblower testifying? Why not just show everyone if this is so damaging and threatening?

Because they are asking questions about National Security conversations between the US and Foreign governments, where some of the information is appropriate for public release and some isn't. It is not rocket science there. Then there is also the angle of protecting those testifying from retribution, which is important to get honest testimony.

As far as the Whistleblower testifying, he did. He filed a report that is his testimony. He isn't appearing in person (At least not that we know of) because of a legion of threats against him, and the extremely high probability that a GOP congressman would release that information.

And finally, everyone is being shown that it is damaging and threatening, some people just refuse to see it. Well, I hope you look forward to President Warren getting foreign governments to look into McConnell's finances on like the first day in office, because between him and his wife there is a lot to look at, and she might need the leverage. I am sure you will think that is outrageous, and it would be, but that is exactly what happened here and you are fine with it.

[Belize]

How would anyone know if this is a nothing burger if you hold all your meetings in secret? If this is truly as damning as democrats say and Trump has truly broken laws and is corrupt, why are they hiding it from everyone? Why is it not open testimony? Why is there no whistleblower testifying? Why not just show everyone if this is so damaging and threatening?

When was the last time you saw a police interrogation out on a sidewalk?

[Moonstream]

How would anyone know if this is a nothing burger if you hold all your meetings in secret? If this is truly as damning as democrats say and Trump has truly broken laws and is corrupt, why are they hiding it from everyone? Why is it not open testimony? Why is there no whistleblower testifying? Why not just show everyone if this is so damaging and threatening?

Yea, you're going to have to go beg someone else for food little guy. Go along now, shoo.

[Infraction]

[kaelleria]

Taylor's opening statement was just obtained...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...-bce45468a3ff/

Sondland told Taylor that aid was directly contingent on Ukraine investigating Biden.
He wanted Zelenksky in a "public box".

These are excerpts I'm taking as I'm reading this - ... denote sentences removed for brevity.

"I sensed something odd when Ambassador Sondland told me on June 28 that he did not wish to include most of the inter-agency participants in a call planned with President Zelenskyy later that day... However, Ambassador Sondland said that he wanted to make sure no one was transcribing or monitoring as they added President Zelenksyy to the call."

"In a regular NSC secure video-conference call on July 18, I heard a staff person from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) say that there was a hold on security assistance to Ukraine but could not say why. Toward the end of an otherwise normal meeting, a voice on the call - the person was off-screen - said that she was from OMB and that her boss had instructed her not to approve any additional spending of security assisstance for Ukraine until further notice. I and others sat in astonishment... All that the OMB staff person said was that the directive had come from the President of the Chief of Staff to OMB."

"There followed a series of NSC-led interagency meeting, starting at the staff level and quickly reaching the level of Cabinet secretaries. At every meeting, the unanimous conclusion was that the security assistance should be resumed, the hold lifted. At one point, the Defense Department was asked to perform an analysis of the effectiveness of the assistance. Within a day, the Defense Department came back with the determination that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. My understanding was that the Secretaries of Defense and State, the CIA Director, and the National Security Advisor sought a joint meeting with the President to convince him to release the hold,..."

"The next day on the phone, Dr. Hill and Mr. Vindman tried to reassure me that they were not aware of any official change in the U.S. policy toward Ukraine, OMB's announcement not withstanding. They did confirm that the hold on security assistance for Ukraine came from Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and that the Chief of Staff maintained a skeptical view of Ukraine."

"... Specifically they told me that Ambassador Sondland had connected "investigations" with an Oval Office meeting for President Zelenskyy"

"... Ambassador Sondland said that a call between President Trump and President Zelenskyy would take place soon. Ambassador Volker said that what was '[m]ost impt is for Zelensky to say that he will help investigation..."

"During this same phone call I had with Mr. Morrison, he went on to describe a conversation Ambassador Sondland had with Mr. Yermak at [a meeting in] Warsaw. Ambassador Sondland told Mr. Yermak that the security assistance money would not come until President Zelenskyy committed to pursue the Burisma investigation"

"Ambassador Sondland also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukrainian officials to whom he spoke that a White House meeting with President Zelenskyy was dependent on a public announcement of investigations -- in fact, Ambassador Sondland said, ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance. He said that President Trump wanted President Zelenskyy ‘in a public box’ by making a public statement about ordering such investigations."

[Edge-]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ce-department/

Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) released evidence on Tuesday that the Justice Department buried the whistleblower complaint about President Donald Trump’s call with the Ukrainian president by failing to refer the complaint to the Federal Elections Commission (FEC). Klobuchar suggested the Justice Department violated a longstanding agreement between the agencies to share information about possible campaign finance violations for potential enforcement action.

To recap: The whistleblower complaint at the heart of the impeachment inquiry didn’t just contain evidence that the president pressured a foreign government to help him win reelection. It also contained evidence of a potential campaign finance violation. When President Trump asked for dirt on his political opponent, he likely illegally solicited a “thing of value” from a foreign national.

More evidence that Barr is compromised and a political tool of the Trump administration, acting more as Trump's personal lawyer than the top lawyer for the country.