Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Machismo]

Bernie is the only one capable of stopping Trump but stupid democrats and CNN are holding him back

How exactly are they holding him back?

This sounds more like a GOP talking point, and not actually a real thing.

[Levelfive]

Like Satan wearing a winter coat due to how Hell froze over.

My optimism has completely opted out at this point. =/

Well we knew this was a foregone conclusion. We just had that brief moment of hope on Monday when it looked like there might actually be 4 Republicans whose self-interest inadvertently aligned with basic decency and respect for the Constitution. But no, turns out only 2.

[Grapemask]

I'm curious how Republicans think a trial without witnesses will go for them. Trump will never be able to say he was acquitted in a real process. Democrats will always be able to say all evidence was suppressed and, now, that his party was complicit. Republicans have enough senate seats in the air this year that a bad move here could, if not lose their majority altogether, bring it down to the point that every bill will be a battle with swing vote moderates.

If Trump supporters were screaming that all of this would just help Trump in the polls and guarantee his win in 2020, Republicans found a way to shoot that argument in the foot.

[Daelak]

Authoritarianism is on the rise again. We have to keep repeating history until people realize how utterly destructive conservative ideology is to the human race. Conservatives relish is the erosion and dismantling of democratic governance. They use bad faith arguments and use lies and deceit to confuse and demoralize the electorate and the bureaucracy and then solidify power.

[Belize]

I'm curious how Republicans think a trial without witnesses will go for them. Trump will never be able to say he was acquitted in a real process. Democrats will always be able to say all evidence was suppressed and, now, that his party was complicit. Republicans have enough senate seats in the air this year that a bad move here could, if not lose their majority altogether, bring it down to the point that every bill will be a battle with swing vote moderates.

If Trump supporters were screaming that all of this would just help Trump in the polls and guarantee his win in 2020, Republicans found a way to shoot that argument in the foot.

Because when you cheat during elections, and ask foreign entities to intervene in your favor, public optics doesn't matter much.

[Levelfive]

I'm curious how Republicans think a trial without witnesses will go for them. Trump will never be able to say he was acquitted in a real process. Democrats will always be able to say all evidence was suppressed and, now, that his party was complicit. Republicans have enough senate seats in the air this year that a bad move here could, if not lose their majority altogether, bring it down to the point that every bill will be a battle with swing vote moderates.

If Trump supporters were screaming that all of this would just help Trump in the polls and guarantee his win in 2020, Republicans found a way to shoot that argument in the foot.

They didn't pay a price for Merrick Garland or Brett Kavanaugh--we'll see how Susan Collins does, but she's likely to hold her seat. Democrats have fundamentally misunderstood politics for the last 4 or 5 decades; they have been out-foxed and outmaneuvered structurally, letting Republicans consolidate power and ensure majorities they didn't actually win, and Democrats have been consistently suckered onto defense and talking boring policy while Republicans (correctly) sussed out that people would vote for the "strongest" personality, regardless of policy, and regardless of their own interests--and do so extra happily if it's a vote against the eggheads who made them feel bad in high school, and whose fears and nascent and not-so-nascent racism could be indefinitely stoked and activated. The kind of people who could be Obama voters and then become Trump voters are drawn to personality, not policy, and most certainly not principle. Democrats need Republicans to do their marketing and campaigning if they want to hope they can ever be in a position of power to fight back.

[Paranoid Android]

The minute Trump is exonerated in Senate, the White House and the Justice Department are going to come down on John Bolton lole 20,000,000 tons of bricks. To choke out his manuscript, prosecute him for some imaginary security violation, and generally do what they do: destroy.

https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/st...486564352?s=19

A good point. Hopefully Bolton's greed will get crushed. I'm sure he got some advance but maybe this will crush his earnings.

Plus I wonder who he believes is going to buy his book. Definitely not pro Trumpers. On the other side, people should stay away from supporting this book.

[Stormspark]

Welp, I guess now we'll be seeing more leaked passages from Bolton's book.

Still, there's the total shitshow State of the Union address to look forward to. I wonder how many times he'll sniffle and attempt to say "EXONERATED" before the sandman takes him off the stage.

- - - Updated - - -



They absolutely will and will be up to everyone to remind them of this period every day for the rest of their miserable lives.

How much he sniffs depends on how much Adderall he snorted before the speech.

[Grapemask]

They didn't pay a price for Merrick Garland or Brett Kavanaugh--we'll see how Susan Collins does, but she's likely to hold her seat.

Susan Collins is doing surprisingly poorly - I don't think she'd have a chance of winning her seat if she wasn't doing what she's doing now and calling for witnesses. It may actually save it for her. Which is unfortunate, because I think she's doing this because she already knows the votes aren't there for witnesses. If she were the deciding vote, she'd vote against it.

But I do agree thst democrats are just terrible at politics compared to Republicans. And a lot of that is because of the Fox News apparatus. Republicans can send a single unified message through one media network aligned directly with their interests. Democrats have multiple networks that may lean left, but they're more driven by money and ratings than they are to ideology. It means democrat messaging is wide and diverse, but every conservative in this thread is repeating exactly the same message.

But Fox News doesn't explain why democrats suck in committees and hearings, and why every Republican in a chair can spin a political narrative but only 1 in 5 democrats can even construct a convincing argument. They rely on facts and morality being on their side and assume the rest will just handle itself.

[Adam Jensen]

More and more indications that McConnell has enough votes to block witnesses. It's possible that it'll be a deadlock vote with Romney, Murkowski, and Collins for witnesses, and Roberts has to be the deciding vote.

If Republicans block witnesses, I'd say that's probably where Dr. King told us we're within our moral right to riot.

I'm just glad I live in a country where alleged criminals can have a jury that's friendly towards them, that will block all evidence and witness that can be used against them.

Fuck the Republicans. I now know for a fact I'll never vote Republican for any office including dog catcher.

[Reeve]

Senators abdicating their power and oversight in favor of granting unchecked power to the executive, explicitly conceding to the argument that a President has a right to use the powers of his office to stay in power.

I never thought I'd see the day when US democracy was in as much existential danger as today, but there it is.

It's funny, back shortly after the Comey affair, I remember telling people we needed to impeach this guy because he was a serious threat to our democracy. A lot of folks were making the argument to me that Pence is worse, and I told them at the time that Pence is a threat we know how to fight. That while his policy ideas would be repugnant, he would operate more within democratic norms. I told them that Trump, on the other hand, represented an existential threat to our democracy, and mostly people didn't believe me at the time. Well here we are.

[Adam Jensen]

Authoritarianism is on the rise again. We have to keep repeating history until people realize how utterly destructive conservative ideology is to the human race. Conservatives relish is the erosion and dismantling of democratic governance. They use bad faith arguments and use lies and deceit to confuse and demoralize the electorate and the bureaucracy and then solidify power.

You'd think after Adolf Hitler people would get it and stay away from that right wing populist shit . . .

[Draco-Onis]

With this cover up republicans have now allowed Trump to use foreign help to win 2020, there's nothing to stop him now he has already cleansed the white house of anyone who could blow the whistle on him. We should assume now that multiple countries will be making deals with Trump so that he can win the election. I hope for democrat's sake they give up this bullshit on fighting fair because it won't mean shit when we lose. Whoever wins the nomination don't bring a knife to a gun fight, misinformation, propaganda whatever dirty tools you have to use don't take the moral high ground because that won't win.

[Grapemask]

With this cover up republicans have now allowed Trump to use foreign help to win 2020, there's nothing to stop him now he has already cleansed the white house of anyone who could blow the whistle on him. We should assume now that multiple countries will be making deals with Trump so that he can win the election. I hope for democrat's sake they give up this bullshit on fighting fair because it won't mean shit when we lose. Whoever wins the nomination don't bring a knife to a gun fight, misinformation, propaganda whatever dirty tools you have to use don't take the moral high ground because that won't win.

Every single democrat in Congress and running for president should immediately hold their own press conference following the vote. "Russia, if you're listening..."

It's allowed now.

During the trial, Republicans told democrats over and over that they had to follow precedent. No democrat will be a hypocrite for following precedent now.

[Breccia]

Hopefully Bolton's greed will get crushed.

I disagree.

While this is yet another warning Trump is giving to everyone "you will give me 100% loyalty or I will make you pay for it, even though I reward you with nothing", more importantly, this is Trump stamping on free speech again. There are plenty of books out there I haven't read because I fundamentally disagree with the author. That doesn't mean they can't be published.

I am basing that on Bolton not revealing classified info, of course. Like you said, that's bullshit. Bolton doesn't see himself as a traitor.

Simply put, if Bolton -- who probably got a large amount of money ahead of time for writing the book -- finds his book blocked by bullshit lawsuits and lies, he should just hand out free copies to everyone challenging a sitting Republican in 2020, one to CNN, and one to FOX News just so FOX News can't say "well the book never said that". Once he realizes Trump is trying to take his money away, there's no harm to him in doing so, and it were to happen, oh I don't know, Sept/Oct, there'd be no way to recover from it. Like a laptop with penis pictures.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Senators abdicating their power and oversight in favor of granting unchecked power to the executive, explicitly conceding to the argument that a President has a right to use the powers of his office to stay in power.

I never thought I'd see the day when US democracy was in as much existential danger as today, but there it is.

It's funny, back shortly after the Comey affair, I remember telling people we needed to impeach this guy because he was a serious threat to our democracy. A lot of folks were making the argument to me that Pence is worse, and I told them at the time that Pence is a threat we know how to fight. That while his policy ideas would be repugnant, he would operate more within democratic norms. I told them that Trump, on the other hand, represented an existential threat to our democracy, and mostly people didn't believe me at the time. Well here we are.

Existential danger? C'mon now.

How is your day to day life any worse than 4 years ago?

Economy is doing fine, we're in no major conflicts and healthcare will never be fixed in this country for many reasons- so just resign yourself to that fact and stop living everyday in a constant pendulum of either fear or outrage. You'll live longer.

[Endus]

I'm just glad I live in a country where alleged criminals can have a jury that's friendly towards them, that will block all evidence and witness that can be used against them.

Fuck the Republicans. I now know for a fact I'll never vote Republican for any office including dog catcher.

Watching this from the outside is crazy, too.

If Justin Trudeau did something illegal, he has no protection. When charges get filed, he's immediately removed as a Member of Parliament, and can no longer be Prime Minister as a result. Literally happens that same day, no action by Parliament required. No special protections. No brakes on the road to justice. If he's found not guilty, he's still not an MP again; that position was filled in a by-election, to replace him. He can run next election.

That Americans have been seeing Trump break the law for years and are completely incapable of holding him to any consequence, that's insane. Your system is deeply broken. This kind of stuff shouldn't take years. It should take a weekend.

[Drutt]

Any system that involves removing someone from office ultimately relies on certain people to do the right thing when a violation arises.

Any system breaks down if those charged with enforcing it won't do the right thing (or are complicit). "quis custodiet ipsos custodes" indeed.

[Reeve]

Existential danger? C'mon now.

How is your day to day life any worse than 4 years ago?

Economy is doing fine, we're in no major conflicts and healthcare will never be fixed in this country for many reasons- so just resign yourself to that fact and stop living everyday in a constant pendulum of either fear or outrage. You'll live longer.

My day to day life is worse now than 4 years ago because I can no longer trust that my government is accountable to the laws enacted by the people we've elected. My personal franchise has been devalued by the President's ability to attempt to fix the election with impunity. In a country where we lose the rule of law, we all suffer eventually.

Plus, air quality is worse due to rollbacks of environmental legislation, we're running up the National Debt faster than ever before due to tax cuts that favor the wealthy, and I'll have to pay that back someday. Our country has been put at risk of war due to Trump's decision to pull out of the Iran Nuclear Deal, and has damaged our national security by hurting our standing around the world, which affects my family members in the military. There have been rollbacks to entitlements, which may affect me if I lose my job someday. Trump is trying to prevent LEGAL immigration, which affects people like my ex-girlfriend.

I could go on, but he's done so much bad shit that affects me and the people I care about that it's hard to keep track of it all.

Also, "the economy is doing fine" may be true for you. It's true for me. It's not true for the bottom half of the country who have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. BLS says the median income in the US is ~$45k/year. Half of people are below that, and many are far below that. ~43% make less than $25k/year.

[Dontrike]

Existential danger? C'mon now.

How is your day to day life any worse than 4 years ago?

Economy is doing fine, we're in no major conflicts and healthcare will never be fixed in this country for many reasons- so just resign yourself to that fact and stop living everyday in a constant pendulum of either fear or outrage. You'll live longer.

Now let's go to the conflicts Trump tried to cause between trade wars, war with Iran, nuclear war with North Korea, and things like that. Also, the argument that Breccia's life has to be changed for him/her to be correct is a poor ass argument. That logic sits there and tries to ignore all the shit Trump has done in an attempt to say that because Breccia isn't living in Mad Max that Trump is fine and has done nothing wrong.

"How did that murderer really change your life by killing someone 1,000 miles away? See, he's not so bad." I can use your stupid logic too!