Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[StarDog]

We could see the beginnings of a truly dystopian dynasty, with Trump family members running for President, backed by the threats of the head of the Crime Family.

I genuinely don't know what Rs will do in 2024 if Donnie gets a 2nd term.

The obvious choice is to go with Ivanka.

But part of me is wondering if they actually will say "f--- it, Donald gets to run for a 3rd term."

I mean, they're already completely ignoring the law at this point. What's an amendment among friends? I honestly don't think it'd be completely out of the realm of possibility for the 7-2 SCOTUS that we'll have by 2024 to just make up some bulls--- rationale out of thin air.

[Elegiac]

I bet he considers Clinton to be impeached and guilty despite his acquittal.

Fun party trick: tell a Trumper that Clinton was found innocent of sexual misconduct and perjury because the Senate didn't convict him.

[Resurgo]

Nothing. The House might investigate, but they won't Impeach again - at least not on the Ukraine issue, and more than likely on anything else in this election cycle. The House will also continue to investigate this entire Ukraine mess - there is far more that has recently come to light that needs looking into.

The largest driving factor will be the Presidential elections. If Trump loses, then a real investigation will start, with teeth. Trump might be almost immediate indicted by several state AG's (NY, VA, PA, CA) and once the DOJ gets back on it's feet, we'll see numerous indictments and investigations into the Trump family. At that point the House will almost certainly begin formal investigations, outside the Trump family, which will then lead directly into the Trump family. When that happens (and all that is just for form) we'll see the formation of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, with bipartisian staff, examining everything Trump did before, during, and (if there is) after his time in the Presidency.

If Trump wins, we might all be lost.

We could see the beginnings of a truly dystopian dynasty, with Trump family members running for President, backed by the threats of the head of the Crime Family. SCOTUS would be lost for two full generations, with at least two more seats being filled. We'd see active violence in elections starting in 2022, losing the House and never seeing the Senate blue.

Donald Trump has the frightening constitution of people who have bad health habits but somehow don't stroke out or collapse from cardiac arrest. So he could be around for another 20+ years. He'd become (finally) a billionaire, and that kind of money and power gets him anything he wants in the world.

The United States would fall as a Super Power, with Chine failing to take it's place, the world would be in a different place. It would be a very dark time, akin to per-WWII Germany. I don't think the U.S. would actually get as far as Hitler went with Germany, but we'd see a lot of hate crimes, with various racial groups being singled out and ostracized and punished.

We'd probably survive as a country, claw our way back out. The problem is that we're going to see significant global decimations in the next 50 years from climate change. World changing kind of events. And with an empty helm the world could plunge.

Oddly, one of my friends is a trump supporter literally because of that scenario.

He’s a former Marine who left service after his required years because in his experience, today’s America isn’t worth putting his life on the line for.

In his estimation, it won’t be until America is burning that we’ll truly know and understand what’s important.

Much as he and I will debate about various topics, I sometimes wonder if he isn’t spot on with this.

[Elegiac]

I genuinely don't know what Rs will do in 2024 if Donnie gets a 2nd term.

The obvious choice is to go with Ivanka.

But part of me is wondering if they actually will say "f--- it, Donald gets to run for a 3rd term."

I mean, they're already completely ignoring the law at this point. What's an amendment among friends? I honestly don't think it'd be completely out of the realm of possibility for the 7-2 SCOTUS that we'll have by 2024 to just make up some bulls--- rationale out of thin air.

This is a fair point that bears discussing. And honestly; I don't think the GOP has a plan. I don't think the GOP has really had a plan since it became abundantly clear their policies aren't publicly viable without blatant electoral weighting in their favor - all they're doing is trying to scarf down as much gravy as possible before the train derails.

But that's neither here nor there. What we want to talk about is what the GOP looks like after Trump. And realistically speaking? It ain't good.

First off, there's the demographic problem. All the voter suppression in the world won't change the fact the Republican Party only appeals to one major demographic, and that demographic is in a steady state of decline relative to the other - while this is counterbalanced by the electoral college and the Senate to a great extent, the problem is that it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain even a veneer of political legitimacy.

The other major problem is more political in nature, and that has to do with the fact movements built around personality tend to lose steam when said personality goes away. While you have a lot of talk about the "Trump Dynasty" floating around, the reality of the situation is that Trump has done nothing and is probably humanly incapable of trying to build a political legacy - because that would involve acknowledging that one day he wouldn't be in charge anymore, which is impossible for a narcissist.

To use a historical example, let's go back to the Roman Empire. One of the biggest misconceptions about it is it being a hereditary monarchy when, in reality, the Empire as it initially existed was an ad hoc construction designed to support Augustus' personal claim to imperium. This is why successful transitions of power in the Empire were always contingent on the sitting Emperor taking concerted steps to establish the identity and legitimacy of their successor - putting them through the cursus honorum, giving them a military leadership, throwing games or building monuments in their name, et cetera. But again, doing such involves putting one's ego aside for the greater concern of the state of things after you are gone. Trump is incapable of this.

Chances are in the post-Trump era we're going to see a lot of the inherent internal problems in the Republican party start to manifest when there's no weight of personality there to keep it pinned in place. Especially as the older officials like McConnell start dying and retiring - the younger Republicans being elected to office are, in short, clowns that lack the competence and experience to keep doing what McConnell is.

We saw a preview of this in the first half of Trump's turn where, despite having near complete control over the federal government, the Republican Party still failed to enact its will by fiat because the popular support for their policies simply isn't there. It's an anemic movement that's currently running on a dry tank with a shot of heroin in the form of Trumpism.

[DarkTZeratul]

I mean, they're already completely ignoring the law at this point. What's an amendment among friends? I honestly don't think it'd be completely out of the realm of possibility for the 7-2 SCOTUS that we'll have by 2024 to just make up some bulls--- rationale out of thin air.

A Constitutional Amendment requires a 2/3 vote in both houses plus approval by 2/3 of state legislatures.

[Elegiac]

As an aside, this is why Republicans are usually opposed to Ranked Choice Voting.

Because having to actually campaign on your ideas rather than "other party bad" is kinda hard when you have no ideas or most people hate the ones you do have.

[cubby]

I genuinely don't know what Rs will do in 2024 if Donnie gets a 2nd term.

The obvious choice is to go with Ivanka.

But part of me is wondering if they actually will say "f--- it, Donald gets to run for a 3rd term."

I mean, they're already completely ignoring the law at this point. What's an amendment among friends? I honestly don't think it'd be completely out of the realm of possibility for the 7-2 SCOTUS that we'll have by 2024 to just make up some bulls--- rationale out of thin air.

On the extreme, I could see that happening. And your point about making up some bullshit rationale that a 7-2 SCOTUS rubberstamps is very prescient. A third term is not entirely impossible, and that is truly scary.

[Elegiac]

On the extreme, I could see that happening. And your point about making up some bullshit rationale that a 7-2 SCOTUS rubberstamps is very prescient. A third term is not entirely impossible, and that is truly scary.

It's not impossible, but a lot of current SCOTUS justices would have to die first - including John Roberts.

However much of a scumbag he actually is, there's a reason why Warren had him read a question about his legitimacy during the impeachment trial; because it's a known fact he cares very much about his own political legacy, unlike Trump.

And while abortion might be a contentious issue, being the Chief Justice that rubber stamps a President for Life is a little too much to ask even for a worm like Roberts.

The greed and ego of men can be a useful instrument, on occasion.

[Logwyn]

I genuinely don't know what Rs will do in 2024 if Donnie gets a 2nd term.

The obvious choice is to go with Ivanka.

I"m not really sure a Jewish woman would be able to get elected to the White House just yet. I think we'd get another African-American president or White Woman Christian before Ivanka would have a chance.
The current President isn't getting the 3rd term unless the Consitution is changed.

[Beefhammer]

Fun party trick: tell a Trumper that Clinton was found innocent of sexual misconduct and perjury because the Senate didn't convict him.

My conservative friends loses his shit when I used to bring this up. He mentioned that Trump was found innocent so I brought up Clinton, he hasn't talked to me since. Fucking hilarious.

[Daelak]

Gee would you look at that. After a failed attempt to remove Trump from office his Approval Numbers are at an all time high of 49% approval, and might break 50% for the first time. In a election year no less. The entire (Impeach The MF) crowd must be very pleased with themselves over this.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284156/...onal-best.aspx

The DNC is incompetent at the state and national level.

I prefer to use an aggregation of all national polling.

[Dontrike]

The sooner you realize that people are much more complex, diverse and intelligent than you give them credit for...the better it will be for you. Just saying.

People may be complex, but they are also simple. There's a reason stereotypes exist, and the Trumpster stereotype is a simple one.

[Blur4stuff]

Given that most republicans have already defended Trump's corruptness and law breaking I don't see why they'd turn on him for wanting a 3rd term.

[Twdft]

So it's official now, the USA is a banana republic where Dear Leader can commit crimes on TV and isn't removed by congress. The next election is the most important election for at least a generation, if you botch it you will have full on fascism within Trumps second term.

[cubby]

It's not impossible, but a lot of current SCOTUS justices would have to die first - including John Roberts.

However much of a scumbag he actually is, there's a reason why Warren had him read a question about his legitimacy during the impeachment trial; because it's a known fact he cares very much about his own political legacy, unlike Trump.

And while abortion might be a contentious issue, being the Chief Justice that rubber stamps a President for Life is a little too much to ask even for a worm like Roberts.

The greed and ego of men can be a useful instrument, on occasion.

While I appreciate the cerebral nature of your answer, and for the most part agree about Roberts and his legacy, I don't think Trump plans on following those civilized rules. If it gets to the point where Trump is going after a Third Term (and if he's doing that, then he's going after President-for-Life), and that process has made it to the SCOTUS, moves will be made to make sure they allow it - up to and including personal threats to families of the Justices.

I know Trumpkins will be aghast at this position.

Trump has the DOJ under his thumb, and the Senate will allow him to do almost anything. Real professional political people are afraid of him. And this is just his first term.

- - - Updated - - -

Gee would you look at that. After a failed attempt to remove Trump from office his Approval Numbers are at an all time high of 49% approval, and might break 50% for the first time. In a election year no less. The entire (Impeach The MF) crowd must be very pleased with themselves over this.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284156/...onal-best.aspx

The DNC is incompetent at the state and national level.

How dare people go after criminals and ask that they be held accountable for their actions.

You need to not base an entire thesis on one poll. Aggregate polling has Trump still at 43%, which is where he seems to be stuck.

[Dontrike]

I'll tell what's pathetic. It's people who hate so much they can't even think straight anymore. Now, that's pathetic!

So you should hate Trump then, right?

[Elegiac]

While I appreciate the cerebral nature of your answer, and for the most part agree about Roberts and his legacy, I don't think Trump plans on following those civilized rules. If it gets to the point where Trump is going after a Third Term (and if he's doing that, then he's going after President-for-Life), and that process has made it to the SCOTUS, moves will be made to make sure they allow it - up to and including personal threats to families of the Justices.

I know Trumpkins will be aghast at this position.

Trump has the DOJ under his thumb, and the Senate will allow him to do almost anything. Real professional political people are afraid of him. And this is just his first term.

Like I said - unlikely, but not impossible. The caution is absolutely merited, however.

The only consolation prize in this situation is that this is not a movement of angry young men as often typifies rising authoritarian governments. This is a last attempt by a group of very old, very white men to lock history into place and try to cement their rule.

But time can't be intimidated. These folks are gonna start dying off soon, and the younger people that seem to be best positioned to replace them might be equally as wicked but have not one hundredth of the political acumen.

Do we really think a Senator "Sue a Fictional Cow" Nunes would be able to do even half the things McConnell has? Not in the slightest. Moscow Match is evil, but he isn't stupid; the successors of the current administration are.

[Fahrenheit]

But part of me is wondering if they actually will say "f--- it, Donald gets to run for a 3rd term."

I guarantee that there is significant talk and debate on the ‘Right’ about him running a third time should he win a second. I’ll stop short of saying he’ll definitely do it, but I think it’d be the hot topic of 2023 should he win.

[Shadowferal]

I see at least two GOP Senate seats going to the Dems.
Not too sure if the Dems will lose any seats however.

[cubby]

I see at least two GOP Senate seats going to the Dems.
Not too sure if the Dems will lose any seats however.

Jones in AL is really vulnerable. That should be the Dem's only potential loss.