Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.
They were winning because they completely obliterated the Zandalari fleet that was the sole purpose of the Horde trying to recruit the Zandalari in the first place. Several of Nathanos' quotes on board the ship are "We NEED the Zandalari fleet!" and "The Alliance will overrun us in weeks without that fleet." To be honest the Alliance could have blown up the fleet and just walked away and been better off.
From here on out keep in mind the differences between the Horde and Alliance versions of the raid. In the Horde version it's claimed that Greymane ordered Rastakhan to surrender, break ties with the Horde, and hand over Talanji as a hostage. If they'd succeeded in THAT then nothing short of deus ex machina could've saved the Horde. When that failed the hope was killing Rastakhan would lead the Zandalari to thinking the Horde was more trouble than they were worth and break off from them. What ended up happening was the opposite.
Talanji destroyed the entire alliance fleet, before they went to get the Kultiran one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQfH56TAWU
You're citing an alliance only cutscene there, the Horde is barely informed that it happened in game. But keep in mind as well that it is not the entire Zandalari fleet, as multiple ships chase Jaina afterward. The remaining Zandalari and Kultiran ships (used in the Jaina encounter) are all destroyed when going to Nazjatar.
So in summary:
1. Horde fleet - small, gone or unimportant in late Legion/early BFA
2. Alliance fleet - destroyed by Talanji in opening of BFA
2.2 Horde gains Zandalari fleet
2.5 Horde dominates seas -- Alliance nearly defeated worldwide
2.7 Jaina finds Kultiran fleet
3. Zandalari fleet - mostly destroyed in BoD
3.5 Alliance dominates seas -- Alliance begins winning the war for a short time
4. Kultiran fleet - destroyed in Nazjatar, along with few remaining Zandalari ships
So no one has any ships left now and both factions had equal times "winning" the war due to controlling the seas. However, Alliance suffered two major battle defeats at Teldrassil and Lordaeron, the Horde had no major lost battles. Ergo Horde has superior numbers and is winning the war, prior to traitors plot.
- - - Updated - - -
Then:
1. Why not stop after destroying the fleet instead of killing a king who didn't matter, at great cost to the alliance?
2. How did the Horde pursue the alliance fleet and defeat Jaina?
The fraction of the Zandalari fleet that was guarding the port was destroyed, which was most of the fleet but not all of it. The rest of both the ZD and KT fleets were destroyed at Nazjatar.
Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.
How big is the population of the kingdom of Stormwind?
Theres decades of constant war and many losses of manpower and there seems to be only one big city in the whole kingdom.....
Fixed that for you. It's written like a comic book where the big moments and developments take precedence over consistency, and gameplay considerations reign above all. You can have a race that's had 90% of their people killed, then whittled down over years of constant war, then a large number of them genocided in Dalaran... THEN a number of those people break off and become a new race and that race is now numerous and present everywhere. Why? Because it's more cool to see them bopping around doing stuff than visiting a group of 7 of them huddled in a corner afraid to go extinct.
So WoW logic: Having a war is cool. Having varied locales is cool. Having the balance ebb and flow back and forth is cool. Have some fights and events that happen because reasons. Maybe we'll make some video cutscenes or write a book where the characters pontificate about their loved ones or right and wrong... but save that for outside gameplay because it's a drag.
That's been Warcraft since their first attempt to be story driven (imo WC3). That game is packed full of inconsistency and plotholes and no one cared then.
Same as some mentioned before. It's kinda 'drama building move'. Ofcourse Alliance lost some soldiers during sige of Lordaeron, in battle for Stromgarde etc. but same does Horde.
And try to look on bigger picture. Do you remember Siege of Orgrimmar? THE Orgrimmar? As Gazlow said: "Orgrimmar! The impenetrable fortress!" To bring down walls of Orgrimmar and go through army of Garrosh we needed both Alliance and Vol'jin Revolutionary(mostly Horde). So I think that what Anduin means by "(...)enough for one final strike."
It's certainly bigger than the Orc population - they were a small group of prisoners escaped on stolen ships, yet somehow have enough manpower to wage multiple wars without ever slowing down and being the main part of the Horde.
Population numbers never made any sense. All races should be nearly extinct by continuously fighting against themselves, Burning Legion, Scourge, Deathwing, Old Gods and dozen other threats in the last decade alone.
However, in this specific case, the story itself notes that one side has an advantage in the war, which then completely dissapears off-screen. We know what's the non-lore reason - making sure that both sides are on equal footing in future expansions - but there's no real in story explanation of that.
You are absolutely incorrect. Did you know that Xavius had a tower in Ashenvale (I guess you remember who he is)? What about the War of the Satyrs?
Did you play Warcraft 3? When the Orcs invaded the forest, and were repelled by the Night Elves? That happened before the WoW timeline.
You also have quite a faulty logic at best. Trolls are very different from other races in that they were once the most populous race, but they were very different and there are several troll subspecies. One of them happened to evolve and become Night Elves. That species no longer exists as trolls, they are the Kaldorei now.
If we followed the same logic you used, nothing should belong to the Horde, as the Orcs are the only race that truly shines in the Horde and they are from Draenor, they are not native to Azeroth. If there were such thing as 'Night Elves were trolls so they should get nothing', then the same argument must be made against the entire Horde, as the Orcs are not an Azerothian race.
And no matter how we try to spin it, the Tauren were losing against the Centaur and could have been destroyed if it were not for the Orcs. The Darkspear Trolls were almost a dying tribe of Trolls, and would probably have been vanquished if it were not for the Orcs.
The Forsaken, the Night Elves and the Blood Elves would not even be part of any one faction if the Orcs had not invaded Azeroth, so even their territories would have never belonged to any notion of the Horde simply because the Horde could not have come to be if Thrall had never existed.
It is safe to say that you were completely off about Ashenvale, and your logic in regard to whatever should belong to the Horde in this case is incorrect.
Last edited by Niter; 2019-10-16 at 05:17 AM.
While that guy saying Elves Invaded Ashenvale is wrong, you are also wrong about who's ancestral lands are where: Elves evolved from Trolls long before the Sundering, it's before-recorded history stuff. But even then, Trolls, all kinds, are the original sapient race of Azeroth. The Darkspear itself is made up of Dark, Forest & Ice troll tribes that were destroyed or displaced by other factions. Orcs may have originated the name "horde" but Trolls & Tauren lived in what is known as Kalimdor before the Night Elves settled on Hyjal after the Sundering, they explicitly displaced the Shadowtooth tribe, the Dark Trolls who lived on Hyjal, when they settled there.
The Ren'dorei, you mean? I disagree. They are not everywhere. In BfA they only participated in the Battle of Lordaeron, the Assault of Zuldazar, and the Suicide Mission in Nazmir. It's not too much screentime.THEN a number of those people break off and become a new race and that race is now numerous and present everywhere. Why? Because it's more cool to see them bopping around doing stuff than visiting a group of 7 of them huddled in a corner afraid to go extinct.
I agree with the rest.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
1. Like you said, most of the fleet was still intact. If they were successful in their plan to get Rastakhan to capitulate they take that weapon out of the Horde's hands.
2. Not quite sure what you mean. The raid made it pretty obvious. The Alliance forces were in the city first, took most of it while fighting their way to Rastakhan. Horde forces arrived, fought their way from the north to Rastakhan but didn't reach him before the Alliance did and killed him. Then the Alliance fled south to their ships and the Horde persued them.
Status quo patrol members are cruel masters. Sometimes (aka almost always) they beat horde. But sometimes its alliance that gets "Health walk".
I agree with you. Trolls once ruled over Azeroth, although I could say that any races evolving will be likely to displace their parent race, just like Sapiens displaced their living human ancestors, and that does not make their claim to some lands less legitimate as they are not aliens. Most of my previous answer aimed at removing the idea that factions should own territories. They do not. Several races, as you pointed out, predate whatever notions of Horde and Alliance by more than millennia.