Prime Naaru and Old Gods

[darkoms]

Do you think these creatures are considered equivalents from Light and Void? Are they equal in strength? I know that Illidan easily killed Xe'Ra, but what if the Naaru and the Old Gods work differently? Maiev once said that A'dal can destroy cities and mountains. Illidan described Xe'ra as much more powerful than A'dal (can it destroy continents?). What if Naaru has tremendous destructive power, but at the same time they themselves are very vulnerable? And the Old Gods on the contrary. They are very difficult to destroy, they are very durable, but they cannot cause the same destruction as the Original Naaru (I mean destruction by the void magic, physically the Old Gods the size of a city and a mountain).
P.S. if the Prime Naaru is an analogue of the Old God, then usual Naaru (like O'ros and M'uru) can be the analogue of the Forgotten Ones(mini-Old Gods like Iso'rath or Shu'ma(https://wow.gamepedia.com/Forgotten_one)).

[MrSaggins]

I figured it was less of a Dragonball Z power scaling and more of a Rock Paper Scissors game; like how Light hurts the undead but Ashbringer probably couldn’t mow down swaths of Druids. This was expressed in the old mechanics of Pally Exorcisms. And I’m curious if Maiev really meant that A’dal could do all of that with the Light, or if she meant Naaru spaceship technology like TK had terraforming capabilities.

As for equivalency between Naaru and Old Gods it seems more like Void Gods like Entropius and Saraka the Lighteater are their void equivalents. The fact that the Void Lords had to pool their power to create the Old Gods has always lead me to believe that the Void Lords were cheapened by their creation. That the greater void became lesser as it split into lords, and the Void Lords became lesser as it formed the Gods. But delegation has its perks. You see this phenomenon in the elemental planes on Azeroth, and among the Breakers and Evergrowth on Draenor. I figured the Light worked the same way.

[Skytotem]

There's a few different directions Blizz could go in.

A: Light and Void aren't 'equivalent', Void's stronger and less numerous and Light's weaker but more widespread, or the power balance is fluid and shifting back and forth between who's stronger, etc...

B: Naaru aren't equivalent to Old Gods, but something else the Light has is equivalent. Something we haven't seen yet.

[darkoms]

There's a few different directions Blizz could go in.

A: Light and Void aren't 'equivalent', Void's stronger and less numerous and Light's weaker but more widespread, or the power balance is fluid and shifting back and forth between who's stronger, etc...

B: Naaru aren't equivalent to Old Gods, but something else the Light has is equivalent. Something we haven't seen yet.

Naaru are the greatest cratures of the Light in the physical universe (Chronicles)
The Old Gods are the most powerful Void creatures in the physical universe (at least we have not seen anyone stronger than them)

[Teleros]

Do you think these creatures are considered equivalents from Light and Void?

I think they're probably equal in terms of role, but not strength or (necessarily) origin. The Naaru & Old Gods both seem to act as generals of other forces: A'dal and Xe'ra both commanded armies, and the Old Gods of Azeroth ruled over their various warring armies too.

Are they equal in strength? I know that Illidan easily killed Xe'Ra

Given the whole "magic" thing, it might be that her attempted ritual left her exposed and vulnerable. Besides that though, I don't think the Naaru are generally a match for the Old Gods one-on-one. They seem to outnumber the Old Gods though, so there's that.

Maiev once said that A'dal can destroy cities and mountains.

Remember that the Naaru prefer to work indirectly through others. A'dal could probably have retaken most of Tempest Keep but instead sent Alliance & Horde heroes to do the job, Xe'ra founded the Army of the Light, and so on. But just look at the power of Tempest Keep when it has a bunch of Blood Elves running around it. It doesn't take them long to use the technology to rip apart Farahlon, so imagine what A'dal can do with the full power of Tempest Keep (including of course the Exodar and other bits on Azeroth) at his command. Probably got an Old-Gods-Be-Gone button on his command console :P .

On the other hand, what do the Old Gods do? Sure they have their armies, like the Naaru do, but for raw power they rely on themselves rather than magical spaceships to rip apart landmasses and such.

A: Light and Void aren't 'equivalent', Void's stronger and less numerous and Light's weaker but more widespread, or the power balance is fluid and shifting back and forth between who's stronger, etc...

Not sure that's the case - if anything, the existence of spells like Divine Shield indicates that the Light tends to be more powerful in a fair fight (no, I don't want to hear about boss mechanics or PvP balancing :P ...). However, besides the question of when do we see fair fights, the thematic differences are also important - Light-based magic is much more about healing and defence than dealing damage when compared to Void magic. There are also deeper thematic reasons as to why the Light is ultimately stronger that go back to the earliest days of Warcraft lore:

1. Think Light = God, Void = Satan, and then factor in the fact that (a) God wins in the end and (b) Satan is "Prince" (ie ruler) of this world. So the Void seems powerful & in the ascendant, but it's only ever a temporary victory before the ultimate triumph of the good guys.
2. The colours & motifs of the Light are "good guy" colours & motifs. White, gold, bright light, angels, healing, sanctity, life... reverse all this for the Void of course.
3. The ideas of the Void are classic "bad guy" ones. Subjective rather than objective truth, will to power, nihilism, corruption (which implies uncorrupted stuff existing beforehand), etc.

[huth]

There's a few different directions Blizz could go in.

A: Light and Void aren't 'equivalent', Void's stronger and less numerous and Light's weaker but more widespread, or the power balance is fluid and shifting back and forth between who's stronger, etc...

B: Naaru aren't equivalent to Old Gods, but something else the Light has is equivalent. Something we haven't seen yet.

There's definitely differences between them, though not necessarily the ones you think of.

Naaru definitely do have significant power - the Shadowmoon Valley finale in WoD showed that. But they become sitting ducks while charging them up.
On the other hand, Old Gods are sessile organisms - they have very limited to no mobility. N'zoth is stuck on Azeroth, even if there was nothing for him to do there.

[Sanguinerd]

I think the Naaru are just the first and highest ranking conduits through which the cosmic entity of Holy/Light can best channel it's power.

All the entities don't have to be equal in terms of power but they should be in terms of stature.

Yet because of how Blizzard wrote the Titans everything else seems less formidable in comparison and the Void Lords seem to be one step even above them.. which is confusing.

[Teleros]

Yet because of how Blizzard wrote the Titans everything else seems less formidable in comparison and the Void Lords seem to be one step even above them.. which is confusing.

Yes, the way I read it too the Titans are one-on-one inferior to the Void Lords - except for the old plot device barrier separating the normal universe from the Void Lords but not the rest of the Void :P .

Hoping we'll eventually see whatever is above the Naaru on the Light's side though, because Xe'ra (and to a lesser extent, WoD) really did a number when it came to dialling down their power.

[darkoms]

Naaru are their own ships' powerhouses. I think if Xe'ra had to fight Y'shaarj, she would not do it personally (because of his enormous size and her vulnerability), but destroyed him with the help of Tempest Keep or something like that (it took several ordinary Naaru to give energy to the whole fortress, but I think Xe'ra, prime naaru, can cope alone)

[darkoms]

I mean T'uure who was not confirmed as prime, sacrificed himself and generated enough Light to cover an entire planet.

Yes I know. And he cleansed her of the Void.
But could this kill the Old God?

[Teleros]

Khadgar was mentored by Medivh yet thought very highly of A'dal.

That is probably more to do with A'dal's knowledge & wisdom though, rather than power.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

I don't think Prime Naaru are equals to Old Gods. Their powers are far apart. If one of their strongest gets killed by even a mid tier character like Illidan who is still nothing compared to the Arch Demonlords, LK, and Deathwing than I can't see them being equal. The Naaru always felt like agents of Light rather than leaders so I think there's going to be some legit Light entities introduced later on, something that created the Naarus. Those will be the ones equal to a Old God. As for what Light entity is equal to a Void Lord than I think the Holy Light would be the best choice, the Light that gave Tirion a final powerup against the Lich King, the Light that makes certain places into holy grounds, basically the Light in general.

[Sliske]

No, simply because it would leave no room for interesting story or the player character. Following around Prime Naaru while they fuck shit up just isn't interesting.

By necessity of story and gameplay, our allies must always be weaker than the enemy, with one exception - when the enemy uses trickery to gain an advantage. This has its limits though, as being tricked more than once, or even just once, leads you to believe your allies are idiots (if the 'twist' is obvious, like that Garrosh was going all orc-hitler imminently) or that the story is stupid and sporadic (if the 'twist' isn't obvious and is out of no where, like Garrosh time travel for instance).

I can think of one instance where our allies were stronger than the enemy, and that was Tirion's deus ex machina moment in the Lich King fight. In every other instance, our allies are much, much weaker than the enemy. Some times they are so weak, our victories seem... just.. weird. For instance, a group of about 2 dozen shipwrecked Alliance and Horde, with about a dozen Ankoan and a dozen Unshackled, managed to topple Azshara and her armies.

[darkoms]

I don't think Prime Naaru are equals to Old Gods. Their powers are far apart. If one of their strongest gets killed by even a mid tier character like Illidan who is still nothing compared to the Arch Demonlords, LK, and Deathwing than I can't see them being equal. The Naaru always felt like agents of Light rather than leaders so I think there's going to be some legit Light entities introduced later on, something that created the Naarus. Those will be the ones equal to a Old God. As for what Light entity is equal to a Void Lord than I think the Holy Light would be the best choice, the Light that gave Tirion a final powerup against the Lich King, the Light that makes certain places into holy grounds, basically the Light in general.

Light has no mind

[Teleros]

No, simply because it would leave no room for interesting story or the player character. Following around Prime Naaru while they fuck shit up just isn't interesting.

Same problem Superman has. You can do stories with such characters, but it's hard to do well repeatedly.

I can think of one instance where our allies were stronger than the enemy, and that was Tirion's deus ex machina moment in the Lich King fight.

The Deathwing fight too, I think. The impression I got was the Spine of Deathwing fight was only because Thrall couldn't get a clear shot, but had he been able to then the big chin would've died without our assistance just fine.

In every other instance, our allies are much, much weaker than the enemy. Some times they are so weak, our victories seem... just.. weird. For instance, a group of about 2 dozen shipwrecked Alliance and Horde, with about a dozen Ankoan and a dozen Unshackled, managed to topple Azshara and her armies.

Nah, we got the portals working to Kul Tiras / Zandalar and brought all our buddies along for the usual decapitation surgical strike.

Of course, the idea that killing off the enemy leader(s) will magically resolve the whole thing (what, do all the naga just drop dead when their queen dies? Is there no power struggle amongst her would-be successors etc? No revenge attacks?) is definitely retarded too, but hey ho.

[FuxieDK]

Naaru are the greatest cratures of the Light in the physical universe (Chronicles)
The Old Gods are the most powerful Void creatures in the physical universe (at least we have not seen anyone stronger than them)

We haven't seen them yet, but we do know Old Gods are minions of Void Lords.

[darkoms]

We haven't seen them yet, but we do know Old Gods are minions of Void Lords.

And? Why you say that?

[FuxieDK]

And? Why you say that?

Because you say that Old Gods are the most powerful void beings, which we knows isn't the case.

The fact we haven't seen Void Lords, doesn't mean that are not there, but Blizzard have confirmed their existence.

[Aucald]

Because you say that Old Gods are the most powerful void beings, which we knows isn't the case.

The fact we haven't seen Void Lords, doesn't mean that are not there, but Blizzard have confirmed their existence.

We've seen Dimensius the All-Devouring, a confirmed Void Lord, at least in an avatar type of state - you confront his summoned avatar in Netherstorm back in TBC, at Mana-forge Ultris. Dimensius also destroyed the world of K'aresh, and was confronted and dispelled by the sacrifice of the Naaru T'uure at Karkora.

[darkoms]

Because you say that Old Gods are the most powerful void beings, which we knows isn't the case.

The fact we haven't seen Void Lords, doesn't mean that are not there, but Blizzard have confirmed their existence.

Can you read? Should I teach you?
The Old Gods are the most powerful void creatures IN THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE

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We've seen Dimensius the All-Devouring, a confirmed Void Lord, at least in an avatar type of state - you confront his summoned avatar in Netherstorm back in TBC, at Mana-forge Ultris. Dimensius also destroyed the world of K'aresh, and was confronted and dispelled by the sacrifice of the Naaru T'uure at Karkora.

It's not Avatar. It's echo.