Is the Horde council going to fail?

[Kumorii]

There can be disagreements without total collapse. In fact, that's indicative of a working democracy that isn't a hive mind. Different-minded individuals finding compromise on issues. The fundamental issue with Horde writing which has led to where we are now with a Council-Led Horde has been the belief that Horde leadership has to go full warmongering retard to make the faction interesting. That doesn't need to be the case. Racial leaders should be able to disagree without the Warchief trying to wipe out all life on Azeroth, or all non Orc life on Azeroth.

The thing is wows gameplay is all about combat. Disagreements have to end up in conflict, either with one of them going to war against alliance in some area in the future or against another perceived enemy. Anything else doesn't lead to any gameplay. I'm not saying that it will become civil war, again. But their disagreements have to have consequences developing into gameplay.

[Kokolums]

In real life human government systems, we swing between (1) a weak executive and a powerful council / senate / legislature and (2) a powerful executive and a weak council / senate / legislature. It appears humans tend to drift towards a strong council HOWEVER once every 2-3 centuries a society generates a super charismatic leader that overpowers the strong council and makes himself and his children king / emperor etc. for a few centuries.

For example, the US has a weak executive but its society generated Huey P. Long who was a super charismatic leader that was going to overthrow the entire government eventually but he got assassinated first.

So yes the council will fail but it likely requires an individual strong enough to overthrow it.

A council does not seem to act as a check against a king or emperor. Rather, the existence of a council informs you that a super charismatic leader strong enough to overthrow a council does not exist at the present time.

[Kyphael]

The thing is wows gameplay is all about combat. Disagreements have to end up in conflict, either with one of them going to war against alliance in some area in the future or against another perceived enemy. Anything else doesn't lead to any gameplay. I'm not saying that it will become civil war, again. But their disagreements have to have consequences developing into gameplay.

True, that's why I love smaller scale skirmishes. I feel that could almost be a new feature for both sides. Racial Battlegrounds. When the Blood Elves are pissed off with Council decisions, be it Tauren or Orc matters, they get to blow off some steam in a controlled environment.

[Aucald]

True, that's why I love smaller scale skirmishes. I feel that could almost be a new feature for both sides. Racial Battlegrounds. When the Blood Elves are pissed off with Council decisions, be it Tauren or Orc matters, they get to blow off some steam in a controlled environment.

Like the Orcish rite of Mak'Rogahn, more or less? That could actually be pretty cool for the Horde, and is pretty thematic as well.

[Rendark]

I hope so.

[Soon-TM]

All horde leaders had unique friendship marks on their buttcheecks.

Nah, they all have an Alliance shield tattoo down there, there is no room for individuality anymore. Human Potential™ managed to brainwash the entire Alliance (minus Tyrande) first, and now the disease has spread throughout the Horde as well.

[Paraka]

Can't fail if Blizzard doesn't write them.

Or until they need a new villain for an expansion.

[Kyphael]

Like the Orcish rite of Mak'Rogahn, more or less? That could actually be pretty cool for the Horde, and is pretty thematic as well.

Yep, but in-game, and not strictly cinematics or books.

[Alvito]

Well Baine is a huge coward so that isn't setting a good foundation.

[Syegfryed]

with no evil leaders anymore it will be kinda difficult to make then evil so we can attack orgrimmar again.

their major problem probably will be the paperwork, most races don't do well with finances, the numbers will be all wrong.

[Soon-TM]

it will be kinda difficult to make then evil so we can attack orgrimmar again.

Do you think that writers need actual reasons to justify beating the crap out of a Horde leader with the Stupid Evil™ bat?

[Syegfryed]

Do you think that writers need actual reasons to justify beating the crap out of a Horde leader with the Stupid Evil™ bat?

they don't need, but the spin they will do is actually pretty big

guess lorthemar is on the target, since he is the only one "original" left.

[Powerogue]

I doubt it, but I do think that Calia will have a rough time in her attempts to take leadership over the forsaken. That seems foreshadowed by a few choice dialogue lines from herself and Il'gynoth.

The Horde has had enough of warchief musical chairs, I don't think the horde council will fall apart as a unit in the future.

[Mardux]

It probably will. Something will happen, and they'll decide that the horde needs a strong leader to lead them all.

The horde has a "strong leader", Anduin.

[Evilfish]

with no evil leaders anymore it will be kinda difficult to make then evil so we can attack orgrimmar again.

their major problem probably will be the paperwork, most races don't do well with finances, the numbers will be all wrong.

Right. Cause they can't just have Golden write another Horde leader in.

[Nynax]

Idk if it's going to "fail" in an abstract sense, but I have the impression that, at best, it will stagnate Horde development as a whole -see how is the council thing working for Dwarves and their 0 development since WotLK-. At worst, it will be just a narrative nuisance to be promptly dismissed (or just ignored) the next time Blizzard smacks Horde leadership with the Stupid Evil™ bat because they're temporarily out of bad bois.

The only reason any race doesn't get development is only because Blizz chooses not to develop them, I don't think a "council" has anything to do with it. In fact, what I think this does is free up writers to focus on development of specific Horde races without having to worry about deciding what the Warchief thinks about it.

Take the Alliance for example, when Tyrande walked away from Anduin...that was her (and her factions) free choice to follow her own will. However, if the Alliance was like the Horde, and Anduin more like a Warchief, Tyrande walking away would have been treason. Instead of "I wish she wouldn't leave, but good luck to them." It would have been "well now we have to bring her to task."

[Maljinwo]

guess lorthemar is on the target, since he is the only one "original" left.

With Thrall back, Lor'themar may have saved himself

[Nynax]

In real life human government systems, we swing between (1) a weak executive and a powerful council / senate / legislature and (2) a powerful executive and a weak council / senate / legislature. It appears humans tend to drift towards a strong council HOWEVER once every 2-3 centuries a society generates a super charismatic leader that overpowers the strong council and makes himself and his children king / emperor etc. for a few centuries.

For example, the US has a weak executive but its society generated Huey P. Long who was a super charismatic leader that was going to overthrow the entire government eventually but he got assassinated first.

So yes the council will fail but it likely requires an individual strong enough to overthrow it.

A council does not seem to act as a check against a king or emperor. Rather, the existence of a council informs you that a super charismatic leader strong enough to overthrow a council does not exist at the present time.

It will all start with a trade dispute....

[Soon-TM]

The only reason any race doesn't get development is only because Blizz chooses not to develop them

I know. My comment was pointed towards those who think that being ruled by a council instead of a single person will foster more character development within the Horde.

[mvaliz]

Despite this being a clearly pro-Brexit/anti-EU post in disguise, I'll answer with the proper answer:

Of course it will fail, as every Warcraft leadership fails. Not because of any of the bullshit your espousing... but simply because the game designers will narratively force them to fail over and over again for 'drama' effect.

How will it fail? Who the F cares anymore... Bane slipped on a banana peel, landed on his tukus and farted - causing lorthemar to laugh, then comment on how bad the smell is, then whomever leads the forsaken gets offended because he was really just smelling their rotting flesh... new civil war... yada yadda...

Doesn't matter, they'll shoe horn in any stupid reason for leaderships and faction alliances to fail, because "WAR in Warcraft" or somesuch nonsense.

This is why I've argued since Catafailure that the faction wars and alliances should NEVER be the focus of narative evolution for the game - it's just a fucking dead-end road that always leads to the big ol' reset button, usually through bad writing out of a bad corner.

What works best is having the tensions between alliance/horde and factions be an ENHANCER to the main storylines they're fighting for. Just own the idea that they'll never find peace, and try to out argue eachother while fighting not-quite-so-together against whatever bigger nemesis happens.