Blizzard needs to EMBRACE flying...

[Raven]

this argument cant be any more wrong since I always see and enjoy zone more when Im flying, I use probably 20% of the zone when Im on my ground mount compared to how I explore with my flying mount and actually enjoy what is created.

Kinda impressive to get the explore zone achievements needed to unlock flying with only seeing 20% of a zone with how spread out the locations are.

[Kumorii]

Than you are clearly clueless about what i am saying. Explain me what is difference bettween getting 2k rep per 30 minutes grounded and getting 2k rep per 30 minutes using flying? Oh wait there isnt. Only difference is in time spent traveling and time spent in combat. With flying you spent less time traveling and more in combat. Grounded makes you spent more time traveling and less time in combat. If i travel somewhere 5 minutes and get 250 rep by doing 1 world is same as travel somewhere 1 minute and get 75 rep.

WM do not make you pvp. 99% of time i do not pvp so 10% is bonus becouse i do not spent time doing pvp. You cant skip travel time its always there.

The fact that you think that you can balance the world in that regard is just a fairy land fantasy. Which goes back to it not being a perfect solution since it can't be implemented. Only way that could ever work if is the world was flat with no obstacles and only objective locations have anything of interests...the idea just becomes more absurd.

And how does flying and ground mounts differ in combat when all combat is done at the objective more times than not? Flying in combat more? How does that work, you literally skip all combat beyond the objective. You get faster travel time and less combat time during the travel.

Two WQ's that are close to each other where the flying and ground mount becomes negligible? Ground mount wins in rewards on those.

Your perfect solution isn't as thought out as you thought it were... which is my entire point, No solution is perfect.

[Grimbold21]

Random nuicances don't add fun to a game. You really need to think about this. Getting shot off your mount doesn't make someone go "Golly gee! I love this new system!" It will make them exit game after the first few times. It's not that hard to understand, no sane dev adds that kind of shit because it doesn't add anything meaningful to gameplay. You fall into the group of assholes I mentioned above, not surprising.

You mean the same kind of devs that gave us WoD, legion and BFA zone design? Perhaps the latter to a lesser extent, but I don't appreciate being stuck on the ground when the zones are convoluted mazes with mobs every few steps.

So if a player is prepared to accept - or tolerate that - then I don't see how they can complain about game elements that endanger your flying. I mean, in TBC, Blade Edge mounts had a couple of areas with cannons that shot at you. I even think that one of them had some sort of daily quest that you had to really fast in the air while dodging cannon fire.

If players can have a World quest where you throw a hook to get on a gryphon to beat it into submission, I don't see why npcs, or other players for that matter, cannot make use of the same mechanism.

Everybody keeps talking how flying ruins immersion and the sense of world danger. Instead of going the lazy way, just make flying interactive.

[Elias01]

The fact that you think that you can balance the world in that regard is just a fairy land fantasy. Which goes back to it not being a perfect solution since it can't be implemented. Only way that could ever work if is the world was flat with no obstacles and only objective locations have anything of interests...the idea just becomes more absurd.

And how does flying and ground mounts differ in combat when all combat is done at the objective more times than not? Flying in combat more? How does that work, you literally skip all combat beyond the objective. You get faster travel time and less combat time during the travel.

Two WQ's that are close to each other where the flying and ground mount becomes negligible? Ground mount wins in rewards on those.

Your perfect solution isn't as thought out as you thought it were... which is my entire point, No solution is perfect.

Yes you can. It is actualy easy to balance all you need is character and calculate how long does it take to comeplete task by ground and by flying. And i am done with you. It absolutly clear you dont want this no becouse it would be unbalanced but becouse you dont like fact grounded gameplay could have same rewards as people with flying. You dont enyoj flying at all you just enyoj fact you can get more rewards faster with flying. Thats not you enyojing flying thats you being entitlted.

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You mean the same kind of devs that gave us WoD, legion and BFA zone design? Perhaps the latter to a lesser extent, but I don't appreciate being stuck on the ground when the zones are convoluted mazes with mobs every few steps.

So if a player is prepared to accept - or tolerate that - then I don't see how they can complain about game elements that endanger your flying. I mean, in TBC, Blade Edge mounts had a couple of areas with cannons that shot at you. I even think that one of them had some sort of daily quest that you had to really fast in the air while dodging cannon fire.

If players can have a World quest where you throw a hook to get on a gryphon to beat it into submission, I don't see why npcs, or other players for that matter, cannot make use of the same mechanism.

Everybody keeps talking how flying ruins immersion and the sense of world danger. Instead of going the lazy way, just make flying interactive.

Zones are not maze you are just bad at navigating. I had 0 problem navigate any zone grounded.

[Halyon]

Main reason for restriction of flying is that it never was good for the game but by the time Blizz realized it was too late to take it out. So they gave us pathfinder as middle ground solution.

Because they suck at making maps that are based around having flight, and additional mechanics to make it still engaging. Nazjatar w/o flying is ass, with flying it's still ass, but at least it doesn't take half a day to get shit done.

The whole deal with Baa'l could be done more, but with flying in mind, and that would be grand.

[Grimbold21]

Yes you can. It is actualy easy to balance all you need is character and calculate how long does it take to comeplete task by ground and by flying. And i am done with you. It absolutly clear you dont want this no becouse it would be unbalanced but becouse you dont like fact grounded gameplay could have same rewards as people with flying. You dont enyoj flying at all you just enyoj fact you can get more rewards faster with flying. Thats not you enyojing flying thats you being entitlted.

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Zones are not maze you are just bad at navigating. I had 0 problem navigate any zone grounded.

Come up with an actual argument next time.

[Kumorii]

Yes you can. It is actualy easy to balance all you need is character and calculate how long does it take to comeplete task by ground and by flying. And i am done with you. It absolutly clear you dont want this no becouse it would be unbalanced but becouse you dont like fact grounded gameplay could have same rewards as people with flying. You dont enyoj flying at all you just enyoj fact you can get more rewards faster with flying. Thats not you enyojing flying thats you being entitlted.

Oh boy, so many strawmans and false assumptions... you do you pal. Keep on believing that you can form a perfect solution for everyone.

[Elias01]

Oh boy, so many strawmans and false assumptions... you do you pal. Keep on believing that you can form a perfect solution for everyone.

Again tell me what is difference getting 2k rep for 30 minutes grounded and getting 2k rep per 30 minutes while flying. Give me one good example what makes this unbalanced.

[Tabrotar]

Indeed - that's why Classic is so popular, because of flying.

No - Blizzard needs to DITCH flying completely, or at worst make it for old content only.

Then they need to make the ground more interesting.

Problems need to be solved, not avoided OP.

Hm i wonder why just why when we had classic that fucking flying was the most demanded thing and fucking everyone was happy when they added it in BC, i wonde rwhy that was so...

[brt2pp]

anyone really care about it ? flying is just gameplay mechanic, it's like sayign they should embrace ap system, or embrace ilvl, they can, or they cannnot, but it wouldn't make game any better just by "embracing" it, what you really meant (by repeating mindlessly slogan youtubers repeats) "i want flying back", wich is ok i guess ? we had 3 expansions withotu flying during leveling, might be fun to have them rework system so mounting up wouldn't be just "skip trash" button, what i would not want to is cata/mop system returning, flying made whole world barren, maybe flying mounts should have stamina bar that allowed them to fly ? that would be fun

[Elias01]

Hm i wonder why just why when we had classic that fucking flying was the most demanded thing and fucking everyone was happy when they added it in BC, i wonde rwhy that was so...

Becouse players dont know what they want. They want flying becouse players will always want what is good for them no what is good for the game. Thats why players are horrible in creating solutions becouse they never think about game as game developer they think about game as players. I can tell you right now if Blizzard would just listen and add everything what players wanted game would instanly die.

Players would love to see vendor with myhic raiding gear for 50 gold i guess we should add it to the game and make most used excuses. Dont like it? Dont buy it. But players want it so it must be put into the game right? Players wanted it so it must be good for the game.

[Kumorii]

Again tell me what is difference getting 2k rep for 30 minutes grounded and getting 2k rep per 30 minutes while flying. Give me one good example what makes this unbalanced.

Thought you were done with me....

I'm saying it's not obtainable to reach that balance...It's up to you to show it's obtainable and possible to implement. Not vice versa.

How will the terrain look so the balance gets maintained through all the configurations of WQ locations?
Except making everything a flat surface with no obstacles beyond objective locations.

[Elias01]

I'm saying it's not obtainable to reach that balance...It's up to you to show it's obtainable and possible to implement. Not vice versa.

How will the terrain look so the balance gets maintained through all the configurations of WQ locations?
Except making everything a flat surface with no obstacles beyond objective locations.

It is. You just calcute that time per zone not per world Q than make average time spent doing world Q for entire continent. There wil be sligh unbalances but we talking about very small %. It is still better than force everyone to use flying.

[kyo wolfsfang]

Flying was ok as a BC expansion feature only considering it was a reward for playing the game, and unlocked even more content to do when you learned flying.. but it needs to be removed from the rest of the game... It ruins immersion and challenge if you just fly over everything.

[Drusin]

with mobs every few steps.

This is actually one of the things I hated about the older final fantasies lol. It felt like every few steps I'd get yanked into a fight with something, travel with so freaking annoying.

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I'm saying it's not obtainable to reach that balance

Caves

30 minutes with no flying
30 minutes with flying but the objective is in a cave lol ggez

[Tabrotar]

Becouse players dont know what they want. They want flying becouse players will always want what is good for them no what is good for the game. Thats why players are horrible in creating solutions becouse they never think about game as game developer they think about game as players. I can tell you right now if Blizzard would just listen and add everything what players wanted game would instanly die.

Players would love to see vendor with myhic raiding gear for 50 gold i guess we should add it to the game and make most used excuses. Dont like it? Dont buy it. But players want it so it must be put into the game right? Players wanted it so it must be good for the game.

Ah ofc it´s the players again and ofc Blizz can never ever be in the wrong, bcs why should Blizz be accountable for something little sheep right? Must be a great live licking the inside of Blizz ass every day for years...

[Kumorii]

It is. You just calcute that time per zone not per world Q. There wil be sligh unbalances but we talking about very small %. It is still better than force everyone to use flying.

Still very unspecific...

But ok, I try to go with the small pieces of information you give me.

Lets go back to 5WQ's in a zone. Forgive me beforehand if I get the speed of what mount type wrong, just swap them around if I did.
Lets say flying is faster, because it moves faster currently. You have to compensate by giving less reputation, correct?

So lets say you get 100 rep for each WQ and with travel time it all takes 1 hour. so that's 500 rep /h with flying.
Now, if ground is slower, you have to gain more reputation to gain the same amount of rep/h.
Lets say it takes 2h for ground mount... so you get 200rep per wq, which totals at 1000rep for 2h work which is 500rep/h. Same as flying.

However the total rep for that set of WQ's are different, ground mount earning more while also taking longer.

That means people who have maybe 3h to kill that evening will feel compelled to go ground mount even if they enjoy flying more and vice versa for those who dislike flying. They don't have much time, now they are forced to fly and also gain less rep that day in total.

As I said, I'm curious on how you would solve it... but you flat out refuse to expand on how you are supposed to obtain your goals. You only state your goals and that's it. Goals aren't solutions...they, are well, goals where solutions are supposed to end up at after implementation. You goal atm is that they gain the same rep within the same amount of time... I'm asking HOW you are supposed to do it. You only state your goals again as an answer. Doesn't work like that.

And no, "calculate time" isn't an explanation either since it's a method used to measure if the solution is reaching the goal. I want to know the solution.

[mysticx]

Flying was ok as a BC expansion feature only considering it was a reward for playing the game, and unlocked even more content to do when you learned flying.. but it needs to be removed from the rest of the game... It ruins immersion and challenge if you just fly over everything.

Immersion pretty much fades away after the fifth ride through yet another mob-infested grassy field (Ooh, i got dismounted by a quilboar... and it's dead now, IMMERSION!), and don't try to equate challenge and wading through lame mobs that are trivial a month into the expansion, that's just embarrassing...

[Fayenoor]

I'm almost certain that this has been talked about before... but.

To take away flying would ruin the game at this point. So the only option left is for Blizzard to embrace flying and make zones, islands, questing areas etc; only available through it. This was done in Wrath I believe and I remember it being a really enjoyable experience having to fly to the top of Storm Peaks or wherever it was; as it was the only way to get there.

Embrace this mechanic and make it a true character of the game's design. Don't just have it as an ease of access tool to get around the zones. Having that as Flying's only benefit is ~ B O R I N G ~.

It's a subjective topic I suppose but, am I wrong?

Since this is an opinion post and as you quite rightly pointed out that this is all subjective, I am of the opposite school of thought - Blizzard needs to eliminate flying altogether.

Here are my counter arguments:
1. Zones designed around flying are always poorly designed. In your example from WOTLK, only Storm Peaks and Icecrown were zones designed for flying exclusively. Blizzard hasn't developed a good way to do 3D maps, so questing (without secondary addons) and trying to find out where the quest objective is in the x,y,z axis was nuts in both those zones.
2. Vashjir had the same problem. Vashjir was the same - it is just "flying" under water. Zone sucked because 3D mapping sucked.
3. Flying negates the need to interact with the world. You can just fly over crap to avoid combat. This is bad for world PvP as well as game immersion. The thrill of not knowing when you are going to get ganked. The way to counter this to have Mechagon like sentry ships flying and nuking people down randomly. Or cover the skies with elite dragons who agros and kills fliers.
4. The flight-master whistle is an excellent addition to the game. Use it and use flight paths.

[Schattenlied]

Gold fee lol.
You mean log on fee. Gold is too easy to get now. People legit couldn't afford flying mounts in tbc for awhile

I bought my flying mount the moment I hit 70 in TBC with a new character on a new server, try again.

Because several people here apparently have no memory of it: While epic flight cost a lot, regular flying cost only 275g for training+mount in TBC.

That was fucking nothing.

Cold weather flying cost 1000g in Wrath, and the flight license for Pandaria was 2500g, both easily affordable as soon as you hit max level, and were before any kind of nonsensical gold inflation hit the game.

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That just causes people to rush to max level so they can be the first crafters to mass farm mats and get lots of items on the AH. You see them rushing so you feel the need to rush and people who see you feel the need to rush, all so players can make big sales early on when demand is high.

That happens anyways, non-issue.